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SteelmaninOZ

Aberdeen v Motherwell 6/11/2021

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4 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

The chat about Mugabi not getting forward enough is fair doos, but he's a big bastard of a centre half being chucked in at right back, he's never going to turn into Cafu overnight. He was far more solid defensively than SOD today and he showed signs of marauding forward when given the opportunity. That'll surely grow with a bit more familiarity/confidence in the role.

 

I like O'Donnell, I think he's an excellent RWB (as shown over the summer) but is actually just quite an average RB.

I also like O’Donnell and I do think he is a good player. However, I’d say he is going through a run of bad form. That’s said as a comparison of how good he can be and not  as a comparison to other players. Mugabi has played well enough to merit maintaining a starting spot in that position but remains to be seen what GA decides for the hearts game. 

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8 minutes ago, GazzyB said:

I like O'Donnell, I think he's an excellent RWB (as shown over the summer) but is actually just quite an average RB.

It's the way of the modern game. Any time people talk about top class full backs these days they are referring to how many times they bomb up and down the park and the quality of their crosses or number of assists. I can't remember the last time I saw any stats anywhere about their number of tackles, balls won or crosses stopped - which for me is the most important part of that position, but barely gets a passing thought.

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43 minutes ago, wellsince75 said:

Im with you on this.  We are ruthless with the chances we make  like us all delighted to win. 

It' just not enjoyable to have so little play, no progression, limited chances.   If this was a short term plan to build towards something better then it would be easier to understand but from what we've gleaned the plan is simply defend deep and go for the smash and grab. 

Difference today was that we didn’t shoot ourselves in the foot. We had a damn good try at it a few times but managed not to. Next game against Hearts which is not beyond us winning. We gifted them 2 goals at Tynecastle. If we can avoid the self destruct button we have a decent chance. 

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23 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Anyone know what was wrong with Ojala? Hopefully he's OK.

I've no idea what happened with ojala,hopefully as he was able to walk off it was just precautionary and he will be fit for for our next game.hes fast becoming one of our most important players,he was excellent again today,his reading of the game is first class.

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It looked like the groin strain by the way he walked off. Hopefully the international break gives him time to recover.

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3 hours ago, weeyin said:

It's the way of the modern game. Any time people talk about top class full backs these days they are referring to how many times they bomb up and down the park and the quality of their crosses or number of assists. I can't remember the last time I saw any stats anywhere about their number of tackles, balls won or crosses stopped - which for me is the most important part of that position, but barely gets a passing thought.

If you are playing 4 at the back full backs should be defenders first and foremost.  

You defend as four in a line and if the full backs are getting forward you are just asking for trouble because you are defeating the whole point of having a back four.

If you want to play wing backs you go for 3 at the back.  Like McLean did when we played Shannon and McKinnon.

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11 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Has taken a bit of stick but that is 3 assists for Goss,  puts in a mean cross

Also has the best passing accuracy of any of our midfielders.  

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6 hours ago, Robbos boy said:

Hopefully he does, international defender who not only gets lambasted by his nation, but also by his own support, makes you wonder why we signed him and made him captain. It was not only one player changed today, No Slattery, KVV started up front, Mcguire in midfield along with  O'hara defending right hand side in front of Bevis, who kept it simple by not overlapping or putting in crosses and in some instances dropping to make a 3 at the back. As I said earlier, if SOD had made a bollocks of the pass back in the first half he would have been slated, but fortunately Kelly bailed him out. It was a typical Alexander backs to the wall perfomance. Unlike St Mirren where a Bevis and Kelly mistake let them back in the game. But hay ho Bevis is brilliant. 

so why does he get " lambasted " by some scotland and Motherwell 

 I dont think theres a vendetta against him.

you're right , him and Mugabe are different players , I would say Mugabe is more effective at RB,he doesnt overlap the same  but sods crossing is poor when he gets forward so whsts the point .

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1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

You defend as four in a line and if the full backs are getting forward you are just asking for trouble because you are defeating the whole point of having a back four.

There are far more positives than negatives to having attacking full backs, like overlapping, 2 on 1 situations, high press when we lose the ball etc. It's just part of the modern game to get forward and support the attack. The holding midfielder is generally tasked with nullifying the counter attack and closing the space left behind from an attacking fullback.

 

Edit - a perfect example, McGinley’s overlapping run for the first to give Goss space for the cross.

 

Also the free kick for the second, McGinley going down holding his head for a quarter of a second is fantastic :lol:

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3 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

so why does he get " lambasted " by some scotland and Motherwell 

....fans? This is because of who he plays for....

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Very happy with an unexpected win, but those stats don’t make good reading again. 

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35 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

Very happy with an unexpected win, but those stats don’t make good reading again. 

Stats mean sweet FA when you get the 3 points. Enjoy the win and enjoy yer morning. 

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9 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

If you are playing 4 at the back full backs should be defenders first and foremost.  

You defend as four in a line and if the full backs are getting forward you are just asking for trouble because you are defeating the whole point of having a back four.

If you want to play wing backs you go for 3 at the back.  Like McLean did when we played Shannon and McKinnon.

Which pretty much answers the McGinley/Carroll, O'Donnell/Mugabi argument.

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First of all, great 3 points. Most welcome.

Our points total and league position cant be argued with and quite rightly make the manager bomb proof.

But there is no getting away from how unenjoyable it is to watch.  

We are going over old ground, but it will only be suffered as a stop gap while we are maintaining our league position.  

If he doesnt think our current midfield is capable of playing more football than we are, fair enough. I would disagree with that, but can suffer it until he can sign better players.

However, if this is the way we are going to play for the duration of his tenure, I may have to find something more enjoyable to do on a Saturday afternoon.

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56 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

First of all, great 3 points. Most welcome.

Our points total and league position cant be argued with and quite rightly make the manager bomb proof.

But there is no getting away from how unenjoyable it is to watch.  

We are going over old ground, but it will only be suffered as a stop gap while we are maintaining our league position.  

If he doesnt think our current midfield is capable of playing more football than we are, fair enough. I would disagree with that, but can suffer it until he can sign better players.

However, if this is the way we are going to play for the duration of his tenure, I may have to find something more enjoyable to do on a Saturday afternoon.

Obviously delighted with the win and three points, I think the frustrating thing is when we came out for the second half it was totally night and day performance wise, the side blew Aberdeen away in a short space of time with some nice football, we actually sprayed the ball around nicely, proved to be lethal in front of goal which  shows the side do have the ability in their locker to compete in a more entertaining way. Naturally with the nice lead Alexander went back to the defensive tactics and we held on for a great result. As sad as it sounds I couldn't get enough of the Dons fans tears on social media about our tactics so I had a peak at P and B and their own forum which brings some fantastic reading.

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7 hours ago, claretband said:

....fans? This is because of who he plays for....

doubt that...costs Motherwell too many goals by switching off is my issue , last weeks sending off was stupid, when we were already under the cosh.

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2 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

Very happy with an unexpected win, but those stats don’t make good reading again. 

Sorry but it’s a known fact “Stats don’t win football match’s “

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18 hours ago, GrahamH said:

I’m beginning to suspect he might know better than some of the experts on here.

Ill give ye that one..but it was a flexible 4 3 3 with different personel which didnt work in first half as we got hammered 0-0 lol,and too b fair we didnt work hard for our goals,but the work rate and effort after getting them was excellent..still a work in progress 

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1 hour ago, wellwell91 said:

Sorry but it’s a known fact “Stats don’t win football match’s “

So you fully believe we can give opposition teams 70% possession and 15-20 attempts on goal on a weekly basis and come out on top more often than not ??

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I don't mind giving the opposition possession overall. Plenty of teams did that to us last season as we couldn't break them down.

My frustration is it doesn't need to be an either or. We defend brilliantly (most of the time) + we have some very decent players who will score and create chances. 

If we can cut out the giving so much possession in and around our box, cut out the 15+ chances we give teams and just push up the park 20-30 yards we'll be a very difficult team for 9 or 10 teams in this league .    

At some point in time entertainment value is required. 

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18 minutes ago, AllyMax said:

So you fully believe we can give opposition teams 70% possession and 15-20 attempts on goal on a weekly basis and come out on top more often than not ??

Naw just stating a fact that stats don’t win football matches ……… scoring goals and not conceding them does ……… take what you want from that 

Doesn’t matter how you do it but if you score 1 more goal than your opponents you win the game … … … FACT !!!!!

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All I would say is rewind our brains to this point last season and ask if we were any more entertained back then.

I'm in my sixties so I cannae remember.

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2 hours ago, wellwell91 said:

Sorry but it’s a known fact “Stats don’t win football match’s “

No argument from me on that one but it’s certainly a factor in the pressure the defence has been put under this season and again we relied a lot on Kelly again. I just worry it’s not sustainable over the course of the season. Hopefully we strengthen midfield n January and see a change of tact and with that we may also see the entertainment factor improve slightly.

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