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SteelmaninOZ

Dundee United v Motherwell 09/02/2022

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Isn't it about time the manager knew what his best 11 players were. I can't recall us ever playing the same 11, two games in a row. He's had a year to find out.

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50 minutes ago, steelboy said:

We have done this on a number of occasions. As have Kilmarnock and to a lesser extent St Johnstone. 

It's not impossible. 

I don't recall Killie being lauded as a fine footballing team, and as successful as St Johnstone have been they've been dire to watch for years. 

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10 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I don't recall Killie being lauded as a fine footballing team, and as successful as St Johnstone have been they've been dire to watch for years. 

They were a good side when they had Paatalienen and Shiels as managers. 

Killie under Clarke and St Johnstone for most of Wright's time were top 6 six sides because they scored goals. We are not currently comparable to them having only scored 2 in 6 since Burrows successfully lobbied to get the winter break brought forward. 

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There are shades of two years ago about us now. Like then we have lost our main front man (Scott then, now Watt) and have returned from the winter break in dismal form yet find ourselves in a lofty position thanks to being able to shitfest our way to results in the first half of the season. We were fortunate then (in a footballing sense of course) that the pandemic ended the season early and that created a sort of ‘false’ look to the season.

Our transfer business in January was dreadful and totally baffling that we didn’t make any serious attempt to replace the only player capable of scoring regularly and we are paying the price for that.

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1 hour ago, steelboy said:

We have done this on a number of occasions. As have Kilmarnock and to a lesser extent St Johnstone. 

It's not impossible. 

And Killy are now a championship team with  St Johnstone to follow, they have both played dire football for years. Those management changes at their clubs we’re not exactly a success. It’s not that easy.

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1 minute ago, MJC_mkII said:

Our transfer business in January was dreadful and totally baffling that we didn’t make any serious attempt to replace the only player capable of scoring regularly and we are paying the price for that.

I just can't understand our failure to bring in a Watt replacement, and yes I don't mean a "like for like". By all accounts we knew months ago that he'd move on  and even in the window it wasn't as if he left at the very last second. Maybe all our targets fell through? Maybe GA felt that Shields and Van Veen were all we needed. Baffling as you say.

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5 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

I just can't understand our failure to bring in a Watt replacement, and yes I don't mean a "like for like". By all accounts we knew months ago that he'd move on  and even in the window it wasn't as if he left at the very last second. Maybe all our targets fell through? Maybe GA felt that Shields and Van Veen were all we needed. Baffling as you say.

Spot on,nobody sells there top scorer and doesn't replace them,I had the fear as soon as alexander said he wasn't looking to replace watt with a like for like type,it was clear he wanted shot of watt and to not have a backup plan is likely going to cost us having a decent second half of the season.our options are pretty grim right now,we don't have anybody that could play up top on there own,do we have two that would be comfortable playing together and we have wide players that are contributing absolutely nothing.were the only losers in the watt deal,they have got a good player at this lever for next to nothing,he will be earning more money and we have strengthened a direct rival for the sake of 100k,not good at all.

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19 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

And Killy are now a championship team with  St Johnstone to follow, they have both played dire football for years. Those management changes at their clubs we’re not exactly a success. It’s not that easy.

That wasn't the issue.

Kmcalpin said we would never be able to field a team which could play good football and get results despite the fact that we have done it in the past fairly regularly and other teams of a similar size have managed it as well.

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We’ve   been pretty awful all season if I’m honest in what has become a dreadful dreadful   league.

Saying that ,I think over the years we’ve actually done very well though considering.

The calibre of player that were signing is pretty much to do with our  wage structure, that old chestnut comes to mind “ if you pay peanuts you’ll get monkeys “, I’m certainly not advocating a gung-ho approach to our wage structure, but as long as we continue with this way of operating this is where we will tend to be.  
 

Recruitment has been poor the past few years which hasn’t helped. 

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1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

I just can't understand our failure to bring in a Watt replacement, and yes I don't mean a "like for like". By all accounts we knew months ago that he'd move on  and even in the window it wasn't as if he left at the very last second. Maybe all our targets fell through? Maybe GA felt that Shields and Van Veen were all we needed. Baffling as you say.

Definitely not a ‘like fir like’, top scorer is a misnomer - it’s the hold/link up play being missed most.

As I’ve mentioned previously, all the eggs put into a Tierney basket. Would take some evolution, no offence to the player - it’s miles from where we need to be.

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2 hours ago, prideoflanarkshire said:

Last night was poor show, bad/slack passing, however, the thing that annoyed me the most is some players pulling out of tackles and should no commitment.  Very poor.

I can take losing but players showing no heart is unacceptable.

We give teams too much space down the wings, most of the gaols come from crosses our back post overloads

That’s what happens when you ask poor quality full backs to spend a lot game time as auxiliary wingers.
It leaves massive gaps in the flank areas for teams to exploit. I may be old fashioned but for me the full backs first priority is to be able to defend. Anything else is a bonus. And in that respect Alexander needs to get back to basics and go with a 4-4-2 set-up.  Utilise the two banks of four and make it hard for teams to play through us and it beefs up our midfield which far to often gets out-numbered. Stop the rot.

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1 hour ago, steelboy said:

That wasn't the issue.

Kmcalpin said we would never be able to field a team which could play good football and get results despite the fact that we have done it in the past fairly regularly and other teams of a similar size have managed it as well.

Which club in the league outside the big city clubs is playing attractive, winning football ?

You should be looking at the state of top flight Scottish football, that’s where the real problems lie.

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Fucking meltdown on here. Get a grip..:rolleyes:

A bit of Cup Football to come and then the same team in the league after that..Back to home to steady the form and confident we will win both. Bit of optimism. You were all moaning before the break about complete lack of possession and we were winning, now we dominate possession, making plenty of chances and losing (53% last night 17 shots on goal 2 on target)...can't win with you lot. Goals will come whether that comes from Efford or Shields or someone else, we will turn this around

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 Quality of football isn't great (similar to most SPL teams) and we can realistically end up anywhere from 10th - 4th overall.   Which is broadly true in any season. 

My gripe is simple . I have no clue what we're trying to do.  Earlier in the season it was clear 4-3-3, best form players got to play and when we played a high press it worked well.  I could generally name 8 of the starting 11.

Now I have no clue, not sure on the formation, not sure on who's playing what role, no clue who the core 8 players will be. 

Just want to see some clear and obvious game plan.  

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Lot of rubbish on here  after that match, first half we were as good as DUFC they scored with a wonder goal. Our winter business was rubbish how can you judge that at such an early stage, Effort has had 1 start looks direct and not out of his depth, Tierney has had a couple of games mainly as sub scored a great goal against STM.  I think we have enough to survive this year if thats in the top six will depend on future results.

My only concern atm is signing players on longer terms i.e Woolery on 3 years if we see no improvement in them.

Watt is not Messi he is a journeyman striker who learned how to take advantage of Ref's at Celtic. We benefited from that now DUFC are lets move on.

 

 

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56 minutes ago, El Grew said:

That’s what happens when you ask poor quality full backs to spend a lot game time as auxiliary wingers.
It leaves massive gaps in the flank areas for teams to exploit. I may be old fashioned but for me the full backs first priority is to be able to defend. Anything else is a bonus. And in that respect Alexander needs to get back to basics and go with a 4-4-2 set-up.  Utilise the two banks of four and make it hard for teams to play through us and it beefs up our midfield which far to often gets out-numbered. Stop the rot.

That’s chronic. This two banks of four make it harder for teams in what way? Your centre pairing are invariably overrun by variations of 3/5 set upx Football has moved on more than some care to admit.

Stop the rot? Alexander constantly changing teams and formations with no success is a bigger problem for me. I don't think we have a bad squad, but,  making its constitute parts work seems to be a real issue.

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The constant changing of the team and formation is beyond a joke now,alexander needs to settle on an 11 and go with it and ride out the sticky period that were having.the game plan needs to change now as well, everything is all far to rigid and predictable,it's about time we got forward runners from midfield,to change the pattern of the game and get the opposition thinking,plus were poor up front so getting more players into the box to be a goal threat would be nice to see.cornelious deserves a run in the team before the likes of Donnelly,he could be the one to get forward at times,goss/shaw with there height should be getting in the box to get on the end of any crosses put it,this having three midfielders goal side of the ball is just nonsense.we have yet again slipped into one of/if not the easiest team to play against in the league,alexander has to show some balls and sort this mess out as for me out season hinges on the next two games.

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Having competition for places means that you can shuffle the pack, he sees the players in training. Who's playing well and who's not he is also hampered with injuries, how many on here were crying out for Carroll to come back in, now he's shit and why are we playing him. How many wanted Ojala back and all we got at the start of this thread was how slow he was. Shaw was deemed to be too slow when he started.  We as a support are never satisfied. How many have written of Efford and Tierney already.

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I like Alexander, and want him to do well. I am well aware of our position and that the main goal for any manager is to keep us in the league. 

However, I can't remember watching such horrid football for such a prolonged period, and I include the pre-festive spell when we were winning. Before our bad spell, we were giving the opposition a frightening amount of opportunities and just getting away with it a lot of the time, I was cacking myself for the majority of most games. Now it seems we're giving the opposition a frightening amount of opportunities and they are taking them, combined with football that is just rotten for the most part. I don't like to single anyone out, but Donnelly's performance last night was absolutely abysmal, and epitomised how bad we've been recently. 

At the beginning of the season, we at least had Watt up top who could hold the ball up well, and relieve some pressure. Right now, we have nobody who can do that, and along with no real dig in the midfield, the defense are under constant attack. We are Watt leaving seems to have driven a truck through the 'hard to beat' system Alexander was employing at the beginning of the season. 

I think GA is trying to find a new system, minus Watt, and is struggling to find a formation and style that suits the personnel. However, he signed the majority of the personnel so needs to held accountable. 

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If you look on other teams forums, notably Hibs and Aberdeen most recently but every other team outside the old firm at some point this season, they're all pretty much having the same issues and discussions that we're talking about so it's just not us.

This is the poorest quality of League I can remember for a long while

 

 

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1 hour ago, santheman said:

If you look on other teams forums, notably Hibs and Aberdeen most recently but every other team outside the old firm at some point this season, they're all pretty much having the same issues and discussions that we're talking about so it's just not us.

This is the poorest quality of League I can remember for a long while

 

 

The league is absolutely pants. 

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2 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

I know the most important stat is goals but looks like we have conceded to their only 2 efforts on target , we have done similar to this to other teams.

The stats make us seem better than we really were. Possession?? I think that means we had most kicks at the ball. There was not so much passing as there was just kicking the ball forward like U10’s. That’s what I kept thinking of while watching the game. Ball control was terrible. They would pass when they should hold the ball and hold the ball when should pass. No composure on the ball, just kick it blindly forward. No movement to give the player on ball passing options. Seemingly no idea how to transition between attack and defence or defence to attack. They seem to be totally lacking the basic skills of being a footballer and once again it’s more Like 11 individuals playing rather than a team. Not sure what has happened but that’s my view on the team just now.  although we may not have played silky soccer in the first 2 rounds of matches we were not even close to being this bad. We need to get back to working as a team up and down the field, playing easy passes waiting for the right time to play thru balls or balls into box. We waste so much energy chasing long hopeful (hopeless?) balls. Keep your energy for the high pressing game and making runs off the ball when we are in possession instead of being involved in constant physical battles always under pressure to win and control 50/50 balls. There is so much that needs fixing that shouldn’t need fixing in a professional football team. 

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4 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

The league is absolutely pants. 

It's utter dogshit, outside of Motherwell I'd struggle to name 11 players on any SPFL team, caught the lower leagues highlights on facebook and wondered if I'd get a game at 18 the quality was that bad.

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