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Cup Motherwell v Hibs 13/03/2022


SteelmaninOZ
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6 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

Ok. Those are the laws of the game, so if you were appealing Mugabi's red, what argument would you use?

That would be dependent on the reasons given for the red card, if those are divulged at all. Possible reasons would include no excessive force; Mugabi played the ball; minimal contact; feet not high off the ground; no intent. 

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6 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

That would be dependent on the reasons given for the red card, if those are divulged at all. Possible reasons would include no excessive force; Mugabi played the ball; minimal contact; feet not high off the ground; no intent. 

Touching the ball before following through on your opponent is not a valid excuse anymore - the fact Doig actually played it forward proves Mugabi didn't win the ball anyway. It was clearly a lunge towards Doig, not a crunching 50/50 where one guy just happened to come off worse. Intent doesn't matter either.

Take a look at Mugabi's reaction - he hangs his head and walks, no outrage or shock, he knew what he'd done. The look on the other Motherwell players faces tells you plenty too. The fact everyone and their dug knows Collum is the one ref who won't hesitate to flash a red in the first minute just compounds the stupidity of that challenge.

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13 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:

Touching the ball before following through on your opponent is not a valid excuse anymore - the fact Doig actually played it forward proves Mugabi didn't win the ball anyway. It was clearly a lunge towards Doig, not a crunching 50/50 where one guy just happened to come off worse. Intent doesn't matter either.

Take a look at Mugabi's reaction - he hangs his head and walks, no outrage or shock, he knew what he'd done. The look on the other Motherwell players faces tells you plenty too. The fact everyone and their dug knows Collum is the one ref who won't hesitate to flash a red in the first minute just compounds the stupidity of that challenge.

I've watched replays time and again and am still of the same opinion. We'll agree to disagree. I've seen similar tackles in games where no card was dished out. 

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Feeling a bit despondent. The general running of club doesnt inspire me and lacks ambition.  Turnbull money and more has not been invested in team. Rather free transfers from  on league. Hibs lost  Boyle and invested money in Melkerson. Looks a real talent. We evenost top scorer to rivals.  Maybe in the black accounts wise but very poor on pitch.

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5 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

Irrelevant why, a red card is merited if the tackle is high, reckless, dangerous,  out of control, denies a goal scoring opportunity

That's precisely why. Any or all of those can apply whether you touched the ball first, last, or not at all. (The laws were changed a good 10 years ago to remove the bit about  whether you touch the ball first.)

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1 hour ago, robsterwood said:

Feeling a bit despondent. The general running of club doesnt inspire me and lacks ambition.  Turnbull money and more has not been invested in team.

Whatever else is wrong at the moment, I'm not unhappy with the amount we've spent to be honest. Especially given how underwhelmingly we've spent the relatively high amount (by our recent standards) that we have. It's perfectly possible to put together a lean and effective SPFL squad on our budget, right now we are just failing to do so.

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4 hours ago, numpty said:

That's precisely why. Any or all of those can apply whether you touched the ball first, last, or not at all. (The laws were changed a good 10 years ago to remove the bit about  whether you touch the ball first.)

Read the next line of my earlier reply "none of the above applied to Mugabi's tackle" it was a yellow card at worst, never a red. But until we get VAR in Scotland  we will  have to put up with shocking refereeing from the likes of Colum .

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11 hours ago, Spiderpig said:

Don't talk shite never a feckin red card watch the highlights especially the slow motion replay mugabi makes contact with the ball, that wee wank colum could not wait to show the red, sooner we have var the better, 1st minute of the game a feckin shocking decision, at worst a yellow, the useless arsehole cost us the game today.

 Not going to get into abuse, it’s just my opinion at the end of the day and it’s pretty much 50/50 with a lot of supporters. Mugabi and Roberts went in strong very early and I think that was a mistake especially when you know who the ref is. Yes the ref should not make a difference but we all know Collum has history of making these decisions and he’s not going anywhere. Watching the game back last night both pundits thought it a nailed on red and var would not have overturned it as it would not be seen as a blatent mistake. It is what it is now but we shot ourselves in the foot and threw the game away within the first minute and that’s what annoyed me yesterday, not Collum.

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11 minutes ago, Yorkyred said:

 Not going to get into abuse, it’s just my opinion at the end of the day and it’s pretty much 50/50 with a lot of supporters. Mugabi and Roberts went in strong very early and I think that was a mistake especially when you know who the ref is. Yes the ref should not make a difference but we all know Collum has history of making these decisions and he’s not going anywhere. Watching the game back last night both pundits thought it a nailed on red and var would not have overturned it as it would not be seen as a blatent mistake. It is what it is now but we shot ourselves in the foot and threw the game away within the first minute and that’s what annoyed me yesterday, not Collum.

It is interesting that the commentators on BBC actually said during the game that Colum loves being centre stage.

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29 minutes ago, Winning by Name said:

It is interesting that the commentators on BBC actually said during the game that Colum loves being centre stage.

When I seen the tackle from the DC stand I thought it was a red. Looked wild and when Collum is the ref then the manager should have told the players to be careful. 

Point is I can see why he got the red. 
 

GA should also have brought on O’Donnell straight after the red as we looked more solid once he was on.

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It's frustrating to say the least, I've said it in a few threads this season I have accepted our refs are pish but I just wish they would be consistently pish for both sides. I'm still undecided on the Mugabi tackle, I was leaning towards the yellow at most but it is worth mentioning it is Collum after all he has sent people off for a lot less, in the three games he's been at Fir Park this season someone has walked in each of them. Not to mention he is the ref we have won the most appeals against since that was introduced. 

I'm quite surprised he only gave the Hibs forward a yellow for the flying elbow, less than a month ago he sent off Charles Dunne for a lot less he received a red for an apparent elbow where his feet were on the ground and he simply tried to head the ball but this was overturned on appeal.

I thought we done alright considering we played 89 minutes with the ten men, I feel we would have been in the semi finals had we had a full compliment on the field. 

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11 minutes ago, pretzel said:

I'm quite surprised he only gave the Hibs forward a yellow for the flying elbow, less than a month ago he sent off Charles Dunne for a lot less he received a red for an apparent elbow where his feet were on the ground and he simply tried to head the ball but this was overturned on appeal.

The Dunne red card is a case in point. Earlier in the game, he forearm smashed a Livi player - a clear sending off and Collum missed it. Somebody obviously has a word in his ear and he just waited for the next chance to get Dunne. He was so keen, he made an arse of that anaw.

Nobody really believed Macey would walk for elbowing Lamie, but you know exactly what would've happened if the roles had been reversed. And with Roberts, even Collum must've thought twice about dismissing two players from the same team in the first 6 minutes.

VAR will sort out offsides, cos they just draw their lines and that's that, but for red cards, penalties, hand balls etc, it'll still come down to a human making a decision. How many ludicrous rulings have we seen in the English Premiership?

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Anyone thinking VAR is going to be the epiphany of Scottish football should only need to watch Match Of The Day or Sky Sports to see the arguments and discussions who still can't agree what's what, even with the VAR stills on screen.

At the end of the day, the final decision still lies with the same incompetent referee to make the call, only assisted by some slow-mo and stills.

I doubt very much VAR would have made the slightest bit of difference in Collum's mind yesterday afternoon, in the first incident, not knowing a second was so close in occurring.

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I would be interested to know from people that know the rules better than me , what makes Mugabi's challenge a red?  I have looked at it in slow motion  and actually Mugabi reaches the ball first.  His trailing foot is on the ground so he does not have both feet off the ground and he makes contact with the centre of the ball in a one footed challenge.

If the red card is given for forward momentum thereafter then the laws of physics are going to have to be re-written. Jim Duffy said it ticked every box for a red card. I would like to know what those boxes are? 

Are we saying that he was not entitled to go for that ball at all or that by going to ground it becomes a red?

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Var I don't think would have changed decisions yesterday as its all down to interpretation.  I think it was harsh and if didn't happen then game would have been different. 

Players were up for it and ran all day.

Just watched game back there and efford should have passed to cornelius end of 1st half and woolery had efford and van veen at back post for a tap in with his shot. Macey wasn't a barge it was a pull arm back and elbow into lamies stomach . Lamie went down like old woman and that's what saved macey.

The frustration is what if and I'm sure there are loads of tackles similar or worse than mugabis all season that never warranted even a yellow.

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1st thing 1st Callum is an arsehole of areferee the card was out before the Hibs player does his 3rd roll.

Now to the tackle I have went through it frame by frame and it’s not a straight leg nor is it studs up its along the ground with his instep and he connects with ball 1st.

Excessive force ??? Could be argued but for me it’s a big physical player hitting a lighter player and sending him flying if refs have to take that in to account then the game is fucked !!!

Now to the bit that has really got on my tits the reaction of the Hibs players to influence the refs decision ( not that Callum needed much influence)  watch the clip and look at the Hibs No 5 Ryan Porteous celebrating as if he’s scored a goal when a fellow professional is sent off. Arsehole of a football player and even worse as a person I wish him nothing but I’ll will going forward and hope whoever they get in the semi-finals takes them to the cleaners. 

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8 minutes ago, star sail said:

I would be interested to know from people that know the rules better than me , what makes Mugabi's challenge a red?  I have looked at it in slow motion  and actually Mugabi reaches the ball first.  His trailing foot is on the ground so he does not have both feet off the ground and he makes contact with the centre of the ball in a one footed challenge.

If the red card is given for forward momentum thereafter then the laws of physics are going to have to be re-written. Jim Duffy said it ticked every box for a red card. I would like to know what those boxes are? 

Are we saying that he was not entitled to go for that ball at all or that by going to ground it becomes a red?

"Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play."

There's every chance another referee would've given a yellow, but one thing's for sure - any appeal would fail based on the laws of the game and what happened. Touching the ball first isn't a factor anymore, no matter how ridiculous you might find that.

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11 minutes ago, star sail said:

Jim Duffy said it ticked every box for a red card. I would like to know what those boxes are? 

Big strong player hitting a lighter player and the lighter player not being able to withstand the challenge 

As I’ve said in previous post if that’s what refs are taking into account then the games fucked 

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9 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

1st thing 1st Callum is an arsehole of areferee the card was out before the Hibs player does his 3rd roll.

Now to the tackle I have went through it frame by frame and it’s not a straight leg nor is it studs up its along the ground with his instep and he connects with ball 1st.

Excessive force ??? Could be argued but for me it’s a big physical player hitting a lighter player and sending him flying if refs have to take that in to account then the game is fucked !!!

Now to the bit that has really got on my tits the reaction of the Hibs players to influence the refs decision ( not that Callum needed much influence)  watch the clip and look at the Hibs No 5 Ryan Porteous celebrating as if he’s scored a goal when a fellow professional is sent off. Arsehole of a football player and even worse as a person I wish him nothing but I’ll will going forward and hope whoever they get in the semi-finals takes them to the cleaners. 

I thought the opposite about Collum going for the red first chance he got. When the challenge was made I immediately looked at Collum, he was reaching for the right hand pocket on his shorts for his yellow card when he was barged from his left hand side by a Hibs player. It was only when he was surrounded by them he decided he better get the red out pdq.

Still an arsehole of a man right enough.

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