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SteelmaninOZ

Ross County v Motherwell 07/05/2022

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At this stage of the season for most clubs in any league, the result is all that matters.  Fans hope that their team wins games and are not too bothered about how this is achieved and this was never more clearly demonstrated than by the emotion and relief shown after yesterday’s win in Dingwall.

I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade but in truth we were again quite inept.  In fairness it was a very poor game and one which I thought had 0-0 written on it even before kick-off as there was so much at stake for both teams. 

In the final analysis it was a case of the ends justifying the means as we got the 3 points craved by both sides.  However, it shouldn’t be forgotten that it took a ridiculous refereeing decision and a world class save from Liam Kelly to ensure we got the win.

I feel that the major issue is that at no time during the season have we had a settled cohesive side.  There has been far too much chopping and changing from one game to another as the manager doesn’t seem to know what his best 11 is.  IMO this is result of having too many players at the club who are not up to playing at SPFL level.  He picks his team, some players make schoolboy errors and are dropped in favour of others who in truth are no better. This undermines players confidence as they fear one error in a game will see them dropped.  He must accept that the type of player we have, with a few exceptions, will make errors and he needs to stick with them, work with them and give them a decent run in the team. If after 5 or so games there is no improvement then look to try somebody else.

As I have previously posted I believe some of the solutions lie in:

1. Making a drastic cull of the squad in terms of size to take out as much deadwood as possible.

2. The club trying to make funds available to bring in 3 or 4 players who are a cut above what we presently have.

3. Looking again at our youth policy which in the not too distant past has produced the likes of Murphy, Scott, Cadden and Turnbull.

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2 hours ago, Great Balls of Shire said:

I have been critical of Sod and carrol but they were both good yesterday and got forward well....but they have both warranted the stick at tines...but ur only as good as ur last game , so they're both good,  in my book

Stephen O’Donnell is as good a full-back as we’ve had at the club for a long time.  The guy gets picked for regularly for Scotland and has rarely if ever had a bad game. When he’s dropped he never complains and you never hear anything bad about him. In short, a model pro. Sure he’ll have some poor games. All players do.  Even the late great Joe Wark wasn’t perfect in every game.  He’s the best full-back at the club by a mile and the fans need to recognise it and get behind him.

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41 minutes ago, El Grew said:

At this stage of the season for most clubs in any league, the result is all that matters.  Fans hope that their team wins games and are not too bothered about how this is achieved and this was never more clearly demonstrated than by the emotion and relief shown after yesterday’s win in Dingwall.

I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade but in truth we were again quite inept.  In fairness it was a very poor game and one which I thought had 0-0 written on it even before kick-off as there was so much at stake for both teams. 

In the final analysis it was a case of the ends justifying the means as we got the 3 points craved by both sides.  However, it shouldn’t be forgotten that it took a ridiculous refereeing decision and a world class save from Liam Kelly to ensure we got the win.

I feel that the major issue is that at no time during the season have we had a settled cohesive side.  There has been far too much chopping and changing from one game to another as the manager doesn’t seem to know what his best 11 is.  IMO this is result of having too many players at the club who are not up to playing at SPFL level.  He picks his team, some players make schoolboy errors and are dropped in favour of others who in truth are no better. This undermines players confidence as they fear one error in a game will see them dropped.  He must accept that the type of player we have, with a few exceptions, will make errors and he needs to stick with them, work with them and give them a decent run in the team. If after 5 or so games there is no improvement then look to try somebody else.

As I have previously posted I believe some of the solutions lie in:

1. Making a drastic cull of the squad in terms of size to take out as much deadwood as possible.

2. The club trying to make funds available to bring in 3 or 4 players who are a cut above what we presently have.

3. Looking again at our youth policy which in the not too distant past has produced the likes of Murphy, Scott, Cadden and Turnbull.

very much agree. 

In truth we should let every player who's out of contract leave at the end of the season, don't think there's anyone who would be a certain start in first 11.

It still leaves a huge amount of very average players on longer contracts - some creative wheeling and dealing needed to offload them as well. 

3-4 quality players right through the spine of the team would make a massive difference.

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The thing is, managers never sign players they don't think are quality and that they don't think will improve the team.

As every team in the world knows, you have no real idea of how a player will fit into your team until you start playing them. It doesn't matter if you are Tony Watt (who fans doubted) or Paul Pogba (who is world class, but not at Man U).

However, now that GA has had a full season in the Premiership and better knows how he wants to play and what level is required to compete, I expect like most posters on he we'll see a pretty drastic overhaul in the summer.

Having said that, I didn't think we were "inept" yesterday. I wouldn't claim we were playing free flowing football, but in our last 2 games against our closest rivals (both away from home) we lost one to a jammy goal and won the other while keeping a clean sheet. We were pretty solid and dug in when we needed at the end when County threw everything at us knowing their season probably depended on it.

The one plus is we're being average in the right half of the table.

Let's just win on Wednesday and then start the summer clear out.

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, El Grew said:

Stephen O’Donnell is as good a full-back as we’ve had at the club for a long time.  The guy gets picked for regularly for Scotland and has rarely if ever had a bad game. When he’s dropped he never complains and you never hear anything bad about him. In short, a model pro. Sure he’ll have some poor games. All players do.  Even the late great Joe Wark wasn’t perfect in every game.  He’s the best full-back at the club by a mile and the fans need to recognise it and get behind him.

I agree,  yes been poor at times but some of the stick he was getting was ridiculous.  If his surname was Soldheim O'Donnell he would have been fine. Hopefully he can prove the doubters wrong 

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United losing to Rangers with Celtic to play on Wednesday is good news. Would rather rangers had taken 6 off them to help with the goal difference but such is life.

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Hopefully both of them will get beat 6-0 on Wed  although our goal difference could take a hit on last day of season. So let’s  just beat hearts. 

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5 hours ago, El Grew said:

As I have previously posted I believe some of the solutions lie in:

1. Making a drastic cull of the squad in terms of size to take out as much deadwood as possible.

2. The club trying to make funds available to bring in 3 or 4 players who are a cut above what we presently have.

3. Looking again at our youth policy which in the not too distant past has produced the likes of Murphy, Scott, Cadden and Turnbull.

Not having a go at you just giving my thoughts on what you said,

Point 1: GA and others have said that the squad is to big but that was a necessity due to Covid and with that - hopefully - behind us, there will be a reduction in the summer. Similarly other clubs north and south of the border will be doing the same so who knows who will become available. 
Point 2: A smaller squad should hopefully see an increase in wages and with the club posting a profit last season there maybe a small increase in the budget but this needs the board to show some ambition  - I’m slightly optimistic on this. 
Our final placing will also impact our budget along with the board’s ambitions as reaching the group stages of the europa conference league is worth a couple of million  if you take in prize money and gate receipts etc - hopefully the board will realise that they missed an opportunity last time and won’t make the same mistake again. 
Point3: We are developing youth from the academy who are still with us, ie Maguire & Cornelius, while Johnston & Devine have been out on loan and hopefully have benefited from that.
Also we have been trying to bringing in youth and develop them - Shields, Teirney and Mahon to name 3. These guys will all take time to prove their worth but until his injury I thought that Barry Maguire had started showing that he could become a regular. 

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43 minutes ago, Stuwell2 said:

Not having a go at you just giving my thoughts on what you said,

Point 1: GA and others have said that the squad is to big but that was a necessity due to Covid and with that - hopefully - behind us, there will be a reduction in the summer. Similarly other clubs north and south of the border will be doing the same so who knows who will become available. 
Point 2: A smaller squad should hopefully see an increase in wages and with the club posting a profit last season there maybe a small increase in the budget but this needs the board to show some ambition  - I’m slightly optimistic on this. 
Our final placing will also impact our budget along with the board’s ambitions as reaching the group stages of the europa conference league is worth a couple of million  if you take in prize money and gate receipts etc - hopefully the board will realise that they missed an opportunity last time and won’t make the same mistake again. 
Point3: We are developing youth from the academy who are still with us, ie Maguire & Cornelius, while Johnston & Devine have been out on loan and hopefully have benefited from that.
Also we have been trying to bringing in youth and develop them - Shields, Teirney and Mahon to name 3. These guys will all take time to prove their worth but until his injury I thought that Barry Maguire had started showing that he could become a regular. 

I think we are on the same page. :yes:

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1 hour ago, Stuwell2 said:

Not having a go at you just giving my thoughts on what you said,

Point 1: GA and others have said that the squad is to big but that was a necessity due to Covid and with that - hopefully - behind us, there will be a reduction in the summer. Similarly other clubs north and south of the border will be doing the same so who knows who will become available. 
Point 2: A smaller squad should hopefully see an increase in wages and with the club posting a profit last season there maybe a small increase in the budget but this needs the board to show some ambition  - I’m slightly optimistic on this. 
Our final placing will also impact our budget along with the board’s ambitions as reaching the group stages of the europa conference league is worth a couple of million  if you take in prize money and gate receipts etc - hopefully the board will realise that they missed an opportunity last time and won’t make the same mistake again. 
Point3: We are developing youth from the academy who are still with us, ie Maguire & Cornelius, while Johnston & Devine have been out on loan and hopefully have benefited from that.
Also we have been trying to bringing in youth and develop them - Shields, Teirney and Mahon to name 3. These guys will all take time to prove their worth but until his injury I thought that Barry Maguire had started showing that he could become a regular. 

Point 1 also had a knock on effect on point 2 this season. But as some people have pointed out, Some of the longer term contracts handed out don’t necessarily align with point 2 planning? 

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Calling all SPFL anoraks.

Whats the prize money for 4th, 5th and 6th?

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21 minutes ago, mcguru said:

Calling all SPFL anoraks.

Whats the prize money for 4th, 5th and 6th?

You would prob need to factor in around an extra £250k for finishing 4th (over 5th) as you'll get the European prize money for the earlier qualifying round.

So I'd reckon best part of 500k of a difference all things considered between 6th and 4th.

4th Position  £1.81 million  
5th Position £1.68 million  
6th Position £1.56 million  

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9 hours ago, El Grew said:

Stephen O’Donnell is as good a full-back as we’ve had at the club for a long time.  The guy gets picked for regularly for Scotland and has rarely if ever had a bad game. When he’s dropped he never complains and you never hear anything bad about him. In short, a model pro. Sure he’ll have some poor games. All players do.  Even the late great Joe Wark wasn’t perfect in every game.  He’s the best full-back at the club by a mile and the fans need to recognise it and get behind him.

he is the best full back at club but that isn't a ringing endorsement. he played well yesterday and I've said so but his crossing in general isn't great and he's not fast but if he keeps going like yesterday,  that'll do for now

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Just watched the highlights; not much to go on admittedly. We certainly seemed to show a fair bit of grit and determination. It was a case of swings and roundabouts for County - we did to them what they did to us previously.

The penalty? TV angle was very poor and its hard to be definitive, but I got the impression that KVV was slightly too fast for Lacovitti and nicked in front of him and got caught. Maybe other posters had a far better view though. Its the kind of challenge we've been punished for umpteen times through penalties conceded or red cards issued. 

From the limited TV clips it seemed like we were really under the cosh for the final part of the game - full backs withdrew into our box and midfield also retreated allowing County to rain in cross after cross and have unimpeded pots at goal. I did feel sorry for Kelly. Fortunately they were toothless and their recent long run of good luck deserted them.  

We have to take into account though our lengthy absentee list (Mugabi, McGinley, Johansen, Maguire, Grimshaw?, Woolery, Roberts) with KVV and Slattery not well enough to start. A perfect opportunity for County to beat and indeed demoralise close rivals; but one which ultimately they weren't good enough to take. 

At the business end of the season the result was all that mattered.

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1 hour ago, Kmcalpin said:

Just watched the highlights; not much to go on admittedly. We certainly seemed to show a fair bit of grit and determination. It was a case of swings and roundabouts for County - we did to them what they did to us previously.

Did you see SOD push Cornelius (I think who was waiting for the ball to bounce ) out of the way and volley the ball to the halfway line. 

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5 minutes ago, wellwell91 said:

Did you see SOD push Cornelius (I think who was waiting for the ball to bounce ) out of the way and volley the ball to the halfway line. 

Yes, didn't know what to make of that. It depends on how SOD handled it.

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13 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Yes, didn't know what to make of that. It depends on how SOD handled it.

thought that was great , as big Roger hynd used to say, " theres no room for after you claude in professional football".

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Couple of good posts from El Grew and Stuwell2, which encompass a lot of my own thoughts.

Not even the most positive of posters on here can truthfully say they have enjoyed this season, but now its coming to the end maybe we can get a bit of perspective on it.

We finished top 6. We might still get Europe. The manager isnt getting fired. We will see big changes on and off the field in the summer. I think undoubtedly lessons will have been learned and honest discussions between the board and the manager had.

Lets get out in numbers tonight and cheer the team over the line.

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While I haven't always enjoyed individual matches, it's always interesting to me to see a new manager and new players try to develop tactics and style of play over the course of a season.

If the first full season of transition ends up with  Euro place, I'm OK with that.

If lessons haven't been learned and we aren't better next season, I'm not OK with that.

I'm certainly willing to give any new manager time and don't want to go down the Dundee/Hibs/Aberdeen path as we can see where that got them. Another good example for patience is Arteta at Arsenal. Had a decent start, hit a rocky patch shortly after when a lot of fans were screaming for his head, but was given time to turn it around and just signed a contract extension.

The one thing I have been pleased with this season is the fact that even after a disappointing 2022, the players have stuck at it and pulled out important results at the right time. From St Mirren and Livi to the Ross County game.

But I don't think anyone on here is expecting anything other than improvements over the summer.

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