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ECL Sligo Rovers v Motherwell 28/7/22

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53 minutes ago, Happy Dosser said:

 pissedoffidity.  

 

LOL. Not sure it is a word likely to be accepted in Scrabble..........but it should be. 

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2 minutes ago, dennyc said:

LOL. Not sure it is a word likely to be accepted in Scrabble..........but it should be. 

Other expressions  might score more points but would also  attract the ire of the moderators.

In any case, I feel your pain :dash2: .

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23 minutes ago, dennyc said:

Recruitment appears to be another issue. If rumours are true we are on the brink of signing another back up goalkeeper whilst areas in more in need of attention are not addressed. 

If Alexander signs another keeper (we already have 3), when we desperately need at least a new LB, CH, and striker, it will continue to confirm for me that Alexander is indeed a deluded moron. And if the Board support that, as they supported his undeserved contract extension, we're even more doomed than I first thought. 

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9 hours ago, Happy Dosser said:

Pretty much my feelings but  more articulately  put than I can  possibly muster in my present state of utter pissedoffidity. My first 'Well game was in  1962 but  I can't remember feeling so  low and frankly embarrassed about our performances in all those years. Perhaps age gives you a different perspective  but my God I can't bear to hear the manager's post-match crapola any longer.

Our squad looks even weaker than last season if anything  and there has been no move so far to address the most obvious weaknesses at CH and striker. It's not as if  GA has just arrived  in post either : he's had plenty of time to analyse weaknesses and attempt to address them.

There's a feeling of drift and powerlessness in this situation from a supporter's perspective  which I find genuinely alarming.

 

I agree with that. 1959 for me a couple of old farts so we are.   :locomotive:

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49 minutes ago, SteelmaninOZ said:

I agree with that. 1959 for me a couple of old farts so we are.   :locomotive:

Maybe it's an EK Branch (Jim Henderson bus) thing. IIRC you  were a fellow traveller at one time with the inimitable Blyth at the wheel  of the Letham's coach.

Now it's the manager driving me round the bend :umbrage:.

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11 hours ago, dennyc said:

If you believe he should be given more time, then how long and how bad does it have to get? Perhaps you could clarify.

My viewpoint on this is that he'll be given until around November or so. If we're not playing well and we're sitting in a relegation position or close to the bottom two then I'd expect we'll see a new man in January.

Anyone thinking he's going to get sacked after he's been given the summer to spend money but before a league ball is kicked is absolutely mental. 

Even if we go over to Ireland and draw and still go out? He's not going to get sacked off the back of that result. Europe is a bonus. And we're not the first club to get caught early in our season by a smaller team who's already further into their season than we are. It happens virtually every season to one of the Scottish sides.

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4 minutes ago, David said:

My viewpoint on this is that he'll be given until around November or so. If we're not playing well and we're sitting in a relegation position or close to the bottom two then I'd expect we'll see a new man in January.

Anyone thinking he's going to get sacked after he's been given the summer to spend money but before a league ball is kicked is absolutely mental. 

Even if we go over to Ireland and draw and still go out? He's not going to get sacked off the back of that result. Europe is a bonus. And we're not the first club to get caught early in our season by a smaller team who's already further into their season than we are. It happens virtually every season to one of the Scottish sides.

This of course is the reality of the situation. Talk of sacking someone who has just been given the summer before a ball has even been kicked in a league game is crazy, he’s going to get at least a dozen games. The cup games always see shock results and Sligo are way ahead of us when looking at actual player match fitness, very obvious on the night. Even then we missed a stack of good chances which would have seen a totally different result and less of the total over reactions on here.  I wonder at times if some posters are just on a wind up when they talk of us been doomed/ relegation certainties given it’s repeated every season and we often end up top half. I always hope for top half but have no idea at this point where we will finish. If the form continues he should of course be replaced, he’s had plenty of time now so no excuses but it needs to be remembered he picked up more points as manager in a 12 month period than any other team outside the old firm at one point, that was not down to being lucky. I’m personally not a huge fan of his football or post match analysis but he’s not the worst manager I’ve seen at Motherwell, the home games with McGee in charge were absolute cluster [email protected]@ks. 

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1 hour ago, David said:

My viewpoint on this is that he'll be given until around November or so. If we're not playing well and we're sitting in a relegation position or close to the bottom two then I'd expect we'll see a new man in January.

Anyone thinking he's going to get sacked after he's been given the summer to spend money but before a league ball is kicked is absolutely mental. 

Even if we go over to Ireland and draw and still go out? He's not going to get sacked off the back of that result. Europe is a bonus.

The reality is that he has no credit in the bank with the fans after last season, rightly or wrongly. He did achieve a fair bit but thats now history and the team is now his and his alone.  If we lose next week he won't get sacked but he will be under great pressure from the support. If we start the season badly, or even with mediocrity, and by that I mean late September, after a relatively easy start to the season, then the support will force the Board's hand, if that is indeed required.

He angered a lot of fans on Thursday for a number of reasons: poor preparation; underestimating Sligo; failure to change much from last season; and his post match comments.

I agree he won't get sacked on the back of next week's result but it will result in ramped up fan unrest and could herald the beginning of the end for him.

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15 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

The reality is that he has no credit in the bank with the fans after last season, rightly or wrongly. He did achieve a fair bit but thats now history and the team is now his and his alone.  If we lose next week he won't get sacked but he will be under great pressure from the support. If we start the season badly, or even with mediocrity, and by that I mean late September, after a relatively easy start to the season, then the support will force the Board's hand, if that is indeed required.

He angered a lot of fans on Thursday for a number of reasons: poor preparation; underestimating Sligo; failure to change much from last season; and his post match comments.

I agree he won't get sacked on the back of next week's result but it will result in ramped up fan unrest and could herald the beginning of the end for him.

One thing you need to bear in mind though is a decent amount of our support consists of absolute roasters at the moment for some reason, and as such their knee-jerk reactions and short-term rage should never come into the decisions being made by the professionals who make up our board.

We're booing our own team consistently, throwing bottles onto the pitch, threatening YouTubers, singing questionable songs and generally not painting a very good image of the clubs support at the moment. Which is a shame, as we actually have a club that fans of many other clubs would give their right arm for.

We're well-run, we have a CEO who doesn't only give a fuck what the fans think, but is actually out there interacting with them on social media, we're fan-owned which gives us a say and insight into the club that other fans don't get, we have a social media team that produces some really cool content that provides us with a window into the club and the players, and despite the rattle-throwing and constant fear of impending relegation we've actually done really well over the past five to ten years.

Since 2012/13 we enjoyed the following:

  • Finished 2nd twice
  • Finished 3rd
  • Finished top six five times in the past ten seasons
  • European football of some kind in five seasons of the past ten
  • Reached two cup finals
  • Finished 11th once, and even then it gave us the play-off games against Rangers

I know this might not be popular, but in all honesty our fans have absolutely nothing to be complaining about. Even if we do have a bad season this year and finish in the bottom six.

I honestly think much of our fanbase at the moment is spoiled. 

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4 minutes ago, David said:

One thing you need to bear in mind though is a decent amount of our support consists of absolute roasters at the moment for some reason, and as such their knee-jerk reactions and short-term rage should never come into the decisions being made by the professionals who make up our board.

We're booing our own team consistently, throwing bottles onto the pitch, threatening YouTubers, singing questionable songs and generally not painting a very good image of the clubs support at the moment. Which is a shame, as we actually have a club that fans of many other clubs would give their right arm for.

We're well-run, we have a CEO who doesn't only give a fuck what the fans think, but is actually out there interacting with them on social media, we're fan-owned which gives us a say and insight into the club that other fans don't get, we have a social media team that produces some really cool content that provides us with a window into the club and the players, and despite the rattle-throwing and constant fear of impending relegation we've actually done really well over the past five to ten years.

Since 2012/13 we enjoyed the following:

  • Finished 2nd twice
  • Finished 3rd
  • Finished top six five times in the past ten seasons
  • European football of some kind in five seasons of the past ten
  • Reached two cup finals
  • Finished 11th once, and even then it gave us the play-off games against Rangers

I know this might not be popular, but in all honesty our fans have absolutely nothing to be complaining about. Even if we do have a bad season this year and finish in the bottom six.

I honestly think much of our fanbase at the moment is spoiled. 

That was a very good post right up until the final paragraph.

We do have plenty to be proud about at our club and I do agree that Alexander is unlikely to be punted even if we lose again on Thursday.

However, to say the fans have nothing to complain about after the tortuous football we have had to endure the last year is just wrong.

We are a fan owned club. The fans pay good money to come and be entertained, or at least not be patronised by the manager when things are clearly lacking.

Whilst I think some fans / contributors do need a sense of realism about where we are and what the likely outcomes are, I dont think you can say they just need to suck it up and be happy. There is a middle ground.

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4 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

That was a very good post right up until the final paragraph.

We do have plenty to be proud about at our club and I do agree that Alexander is unlikely to be punted even if we lose again on Thursday.

However, to say the fans have nothing to complain about after the tortuous football we have had to endure the last year is just wrong.

We are a fan owned club. The fans pay good money to come and be entertained, or at least not be patronised by the manager when things are clearly lacking.

Whilst I think some fans / contributors do need a sense of realism about where we are and what the likely outcomes are, I dont think you can say they just need to suck it up and be happy. There is a middle ground.

No, I'm not saying the fans should be happy about the standard of football last season, but I don't think we have anything to complain about in the main. 

It might just be me, but I don't actually pay money to come to Fir Park and be entertained by the style of football. I come to Fir Park to see us win. How we do that matters not a jot to me. Entertainment is a bonus. If I want entertainment I'll watch the English Premiership on telly. I'm certainly not expecting to get entertainment from the level of football we see in Scotland. 

I watch Motherwell because I have an emotional investment in the club and the outcomes of the matches. If I was just looking for entertainment I'd spend my money elsewhere. 

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Is there any optimism that we will suddenly change tactics and become a free flowing pushing forward team to win this tie. I think not.

 Usual crap , Keep it tight boys, don’t do anything I haven’t specifically told you to do ,nobody try to beat a man then go for goal , keep  passing it across or backwards. Oh and defenders don’t make any stupid mistakes.  Then if we are going out push forward to try and score in the last 10 minutes when it’s too late

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13 hours ago, dennyc said:

Recruitment appears to be another issue. If rumours are true we are on the brink of signing another back up goalkeeper whilst areas in more in need of attention are not addressed. Surely those factors are what should decide Alexander's future rather than what people with no attachment to Motherwell think.

Questionable… and the input of our Head of Recruitment to now doesn’t look to be value for money at any rate.

Whilst merit in what you say, key areas not addressed for me either - Leadership and the bonus of pace in defence, experienced midfielder & viable attacking option my preferences. Safe to suggest another keeper was likely though with the introduction of new goalkeeper coach fully expecting Matty Connolly to leave on loan as injury curtailed that plan last season.

I don’t buy a lack of preparation as much as those who’ve seen only two results and one friendly they most likely could attend. We played St Mirren 2 days into pre-season for example.

if I hear we lack pace or mobility in midfield again I think I’ll scream. Said before, retaining a shape over retaining the ball is the major problem. Balance required also, take Slattery on the right hand side, it’s folly. Pace? Hardly a major requirement in that area of the park, a capable engine wins over everytime. There’s stats that’ll back theory up of that I’m sure. An outlook to go beyond our forward line? We have personnel who can do just that rather than to shoehorn them into number 6 roles.

We need to add energy & set the tempo where we never the other night. Take the shackles off…

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2 minutes ago, stv said:

Is there any optimism that we will suddenly change tactics and become a free flowing pushing forward team to win this tie. I think not.  Usual crap , Keep it tight boys, don’t do anything I haven’t specifically told you to do ,nobody try to beat a man then go for goal , keep  passing it across or backwards. Oh and defenders don’t make any stupid mistakes.  Then if we are going out push forward to try and score in the last 10 minutes when it’s too late

I’m not optimistic at all. I think we may well go out next week and I’d be very surprised if we suddenly look like Brazil at their best, but then that applies to the vast majority of teams in this division, St Mirren have turned into a Motherwell reserves. I fully expect much of the above to happen but would not be surprised to see us finish next season in yet again a comfortable position. I’d like a level of entertainment but I’ve seen little of that in Scottish football in a while and I go to plenty of other games including a few in the championship which is even worse, step 6 down south is better quality. As before changing manager won’t bring better football, just more of the same level with better/worse results. Did the standard get better after each of the last 3 Motherwell managers ? not for me.

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12 minutes ago, David said:

No, I'm not saying the fans should be happy about the standard of football last season, but I don't think we have anything to complain about in the main. 

It might just be me, but I don't actually pay money to come to Fir Park and be entertained by the style of football. I come to Fir Park to see us win. How we do that matters not a jot to me. Entertainment is a bonus. If I want entertainment I'll watch the English Premiership on telly. I'm certainly not expecting to get entertainment from the level of football we see in Scotland. 

I watch Motherwell because I have an emotional investment in the club and the outcomes of the matches. If I was just looking for entertainment I'd spend my money elsewhere. 

There are different forms of entertainment.

It doesnt have to be the technically best football in the world.

I get entertained by seeing young players come through our academy, breaking into the first team and celebrating in front of their pals when they score a goal.

I get entertained by seeing a team develop and improve, or just getting stuck in to the opposition to make up for our deficiencies.

To be entertained, I dont need to see us win, although of course I enjoy that more. I just need to feel that the efforts and cost Im going to, to support the team are worthwhile.

Sadly very little of that has been true for some time.

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17 hours ago, Stuwell2 said:

I think they will sit in, our best chance will be shooting from outside the box and hope for a flick from the strikers or a deflection. Also along with this I’d be leaving someone up the park at corners that we can punt a long ball for him to run onto which would also require another fast player who can then try to get up to assist him. Therefore, KVV should be benched until we’re back in the game and they’re forced to come out. Some won’t like it but I’d have Teirney and Shields on from the start to try this with Morris, McGuire and Slattery all told to shoot as much as possible. 

yep,cos  mcguire has great shot on him 

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16 hours ago, Yorkyred said:

If you are going to do that you do it at the end of last season giving the new guy the opportunity to bring in his own players. If the board were happy with him when the season finished why would they want to sack him one game later ? 

I am prepared to wait till Thursday...I think it is as much context as the performance on Thursday. The chance to progress, make some money and set up a really good tie in next round, if we lose to a League of Ireland team. It would be a major scunner 

Its also worrying if he thought we played ok the other night, anyway they have a second chance , i hope they take it

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32 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

retaining a shape over retaining the ball is the major problem.

Agreed. This has been a serious deficiency for quite some time now and not just in midfield.  The only time we have any shape is before kick-off at the start of both halves of a game.

We just do not have a solid platform to play from.  Quite simply we do not have the personnel to play 4-3-3 and persisting with it only exposes and magnifies the deficiencies of individual players.  How many goals do we lose through BASIC individual player errors when too often players are left exposed with nobody covering for them. Forget about overlapping full-backs and wing-backs etc. etc.  Get back to basics, adopt 4-4-2 and coach the players in how to retain that shape when defending and attacking and make it difficult for opposition teams to break us down and score.

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55 minutes ago, David said:

No, I'm not saying the fans should be happy about the standard of football last season, but I don't think we have anything to complain about in the main. 

It might just be me, but I don't actually pay money to come to Fir Park and be entertained by the style of football. I come to Fir Park to see us win. How we do that matters not a jot to me. Entertainment is a bonus. If I want entertainment I'll watch the English Premiership on telly. I'm certainly not expecting to get entertainment from the level of football we see in Scotland. 

I watch Motherwell because I have an emotional investment in the club and the outcomes of the matches. If I was just looking for entertainment I'd spend my money elsewhere. 

PS if fans arent happy, why shouldnt they complain? We are a fan owned club after all....

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5 hours ago, Happy Dosser said:

Maybe it's an EK Branch (Jim Henderson bus) thing. IIRC you  were a fellow traveller at one time with the inimitable Blyth at the wheel  of the Letham's coach.

Now it's the manager driving me round the bend :umbrage:.

Aye they were great times on that bus! :drinks:

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17 minutes ago, El Grew said:

Agreed. This has been a serious deficiency for quite some time now and not just in midfield.  The only time we have any shape is before kick-off at the start of both halves of a game.

We just do not have a solid platform to play from.  Quite simply we do not have the personnel to play 4-3-3 and persisting with it only exposes and magnifies the deficiencies of individual players.  How many goals do we lose through BASIC individual player errors when too often players are left exposed with nobody covering for them. Forget about overlapping full-backs and wing-backs etc. etc.  Get back to basics, adopt 4-4-2 and coach the players in how to retain that shape when defending and attacking and make it difficult for opposition teams to break us down and score.

Certainly not the point I was making.

On 4-3-3 or variations of - we have the players to play that way. Just some so blind they maybe cannot see. Team is the sum of all parts - Alexander just not using that to best advantage.

Back to basics? 4-4-2? You do realise football has evolved? It’s dinosaur stuff and totally ineffective in modern day - even St Johnstone don’t favour it!

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41 minutes ago, Onthefringes said:

Back to basics? 4-4-2? You do realise football has evolved? It’s dinosaur stuff and totally ineffective in modern day - even St Johnstone don’t favour it!

I agree. People need to realise than very few sides can get away with a flat 442. With the majority of teams playing three centre midfielders, be it in a 352 or 433, a flat 442 is a surefire way to lose the midfield battle. Even teams playing 343, the wide men in the forward three tend to be midfielders who can drop in to help the two centre midfielders...

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3 hours ago, David said:

 

I know this might not be popular, but in all honesty our fans have absolutely nothing to be complaining about. Even if we do have a bad season this year and finish in the bottom six.

I honestly think much of our fanbase at the moment is spoiled. 

Although our views are polar opposites regarding Alexander, I found myself agreeing with your post until I got to the two sentences quoted above. How insulting to those who pay good money following Motherwell home and away and have the best interest of Motherwell at heart . Even the majority of the fans who are backing Alexander have expressed legitimate concerns regards performance (you included). And many of them are now voicing them more vehemently.  The difference is a number are prepared to bear with him in the hope of improvement. And I don't quite get how MUCH of our fanbase are spoiled. Surely they are ALL either spoiled or not. And if I am being spoiled, god knows how down I would feel if I was actually being hard done to.

Do you also stand by your reasoning as to why many Motherwell fans are anti Alexander?  ie his dress sense and his manner as opposed to his style of football. 

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5 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:

The reality is that he has no credit in the bank with the fans after last season, rightly or wrongly. He did achieve a fair bit but thats now history and the team is now his and his alone.  If we lose next week he won't get sacked but he will be under great pressure from the support. If we start the season badly, or even with mediocrity, and by that I mean late September, after a relatively easy start to the season, then the support will force the Board's hand, if that is indeed required.

He angered a lot of fans on Thursday for a number of reasons: poor preparation; underestimating Sligo; failure to change much from last season; and his post match comments.

I agree he won't get sacked on the back of next week's result but it will result in ramped up fan unrest and could herald the beginning of the end for him.

Great post, agree 100%

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This is how we should be lining up on Thursday....

Kelly

McGinn Sol Lamie Carroll

Maguire Slattery

Spittal Tierney Morris

KVV  Shileds

Ditch the 4-3-3 and get after them.

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