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SteelmaninOZ

Motherwell v St Johnstone 06/08/22

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56 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Your second point - you don't need to watch Match of the Day to see that. St Johnstone did that to us yesterday.  They closed us down at every opportunity and choked our game.  Thats been a feature of their play for years now - we knew in advance they'd do that.  Yesterday that could have been down to a variety of factors, beyond my knowledge: working harder, better attitude, being better organised, our off the ball movement being poor - others will know better than me why.  It was also a weakness in Alexander's team.  By contrast we gave Saints far too much room and space, or at least it seemed that way. Maybe poor organisation or players being undisciplined? 

Personal view is we’ve signed far too many very ordinary players. At their best they work hard but they offer v little else . Ordinary players at best will be very ordinary teams . we managed results due to having some flair/guile with Watt and KVV. 

i don’t expect a turnbull to arrive every year but it wasn’t long ago with similar budgets we had people of the quality of ainsworth and others like him . Not world beaters but had some skill and craft . 
 

Even likes of Jim Obrien were  far better than the dross we’ve had in recent years from seedorf , amaluzor.  Now we have guys like Morris, spittal , shields , efford -  it’s simply not good enough . I’m not impressed with the recruitment team at FP.   The manager rightly took flack but what is everyone else accountable for . 

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Personal view is we’ve signed far too many very ordinary players. At their best they work hard but they offer v little else . Ordinary players at best will be very ordinary teams . we managed results due to having some flair/guile with Watt and KVV. 
i don’t expect a turnbull to arrive every year but it wasn’t long ago with similar budgets we had people of the quality of ainsworth and others like him . Not world beaters but had some skill and craft . 
 
Even likes of Jim Obrien were  far better than the dross we’ve had in recent years from seedorf , amaluzor.  Now we have guys like Morris, spittal , shields , efford -  it’s simply not good enough . I’m not impressed with the recruitment team at FP.   The manager rightly took flack but what is everyone else accountable for . 
In agreement on the recruitment team. We had Nick Daws talking up the advantages of the scouting network thing we joined, and how we can use the work permit rules to our advantage to bring in good players from mon traditional markets, and that has brought us Sol, Ojala, and Efford. Not sure how much he would have been involved in mcginn and spittall, and I assume Morris was an Alexander production. Either way, I'm not enthused by the prospect of him bringing the signings we need in the next couple of weeks.

Slattery looks to be a decent signing, and Tierney certainly has promise. I can see the logic behind woolery and shields, but for two fast and strong players they/GA found ways to nullify their strengths.

Maybe they take instruction from the manager, which in this case seems to have been "sign shite players that I can make worse."
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3 hours ago, fizoxy said:

In agreement on the recruitment team. We had Nick Daws talking up the advantages of the scouting network thing we joined, and how we can use the work permit rules to our advantage to bring in good players from mon traditional markets, and that has brought us Sol, Ojala, and Efford. Not sure how much he would have been involved in mcginn and spittall, and I assume Morris was an Alexander production. Either way, I'm not enthused by the prospect of him bringing the signings we need in the next couple of weeks.

Slattery looks to be a decent signing, and Tierney certainly has promise. I can see the logic behind woolery and shields, but for two fast and strong players they/GA found ways to nullify their strengths.

Maybe they take instruction from the manager, which in this case seems to have been "sign shite players that I can make worse."

Nick Daws is a pal of Alexander, and I would argue that he owns some of the serious problems we have with our current squad. Perhaps (or hopefully)  we'll see him mutually consented soon too. 

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2021/06/11/nick-daws-appointed-head-of-recruitment-operations/

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14 hours ago, wellsince75 said:

Personal view is we’ve signed far too many very ordinary players.

Aye, but surely if there was a system, scout, recruitment specialist or whatever that could sign a lot of players who are better than ordinary but available on our budget they'd be the most sought after individuals in football?

We sign ordinary players for the most part, because we offer ordinary wages. 

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2 hours ago, David said:

We sign ordinary players for the most part, because we offer ordinary wages. 

Compared to who exactly?

I would like to know however a little more about Ross County and Livingston's wage structures.

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26 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Compared to who exactly?

I would like to know however a little moe about Ross County and Livingston's wage structures.

It might have changed now but were County not well funded by that Roy MacGregor, obviously they have been in the top tier scene for like a decade now suffering the one relegation but bounced back immediately. Every time they seemed to be in trouble he would bail them out in January with plenty of signings, I think it was Stuart McCall who said we tried to sign Jackson Irvine and he was keen to come but they offered almost triple in wages. I would also bet Malky is on a fair wedge as well.

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36 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:

Compared to who exactly?

I would like to know however a little moe about Ross County and Livingston's wage structures.

Compared to clubs who can afford to pay higher wages? 

You mention Ross County and Livingston, but they're clubs who also offer ordinary wages for the most part I think. Ross County maybe offer a little more, actually.

But yeah, the truth is that the majority of our squad are going to be ordinary players. That's our level. What can make a difference is a manager who can take a bunch of ordinary players and make them play well, and it also helps if we can get a youth player through now & then who is of higher quality, or can chance upon a good find in the lower reaches of the English game. 

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18 minutes ago, David said:

Compared to clubs who can afford to pay higher wages?

Presumably you mean Sevco, Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs?

Dundee United are a different case entirely.

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It seems like once a season we gift wrap a win for them deep into injury time. I'm getting nightmares of Tam Scobbie of all folk now.

Still plenty of work to be done but I felt the second half was much more positive, we seemed to change formation to a 4231 when Tierney came on so again that added with the half time subs it's actually great to see Hammell identify that things needed changed and quickly, Alexander was alway reluctant to use many subs. A draw would probably have been a fair result but we all know what footballs like, you don't always get what you deserve as St Mirren would probably argue about a week earlier. I actually thought St Johnstone were quite jammy at times, one of the main instances being a clearance that ricocheted off Shields I think it was right in front of the goal and the ball went over the bar, then you have the defender that miscontrolled the ball and it goes through Efford's legs, if he intercepted the ball he would have been bearing down on goal. He had actually done something similar a short time earlier and McGowan got in front of him, with the defenders options either to kick it out for a throw or play a risky ball to the keeper, Efford decides to volley him. I know Mr Ponytailman is a horrific finisher for the best part but it was criminal defending for their winner even he wasn't going to miss for that close in, plus it was even more galling as they never had much of a sniff in the second half.

 

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1 hour ago, David said:

Compared to clubs who can afford to pay higher wages? 

You mention Ross County and Livingston, but they're clubs who also offer ordinary wages for the most part I think. Ross County maybe offer a little more, actually.

But yeah, the truth is that the majority of our squad are going to be ordinary players. That's our level. What can make a difference is a manager who can take a bunch of ordinary players and make them play well, and it also helps if we can get a youth player through now & then who is of higher quality, or can chance upon a good find in the lower reaches of the English game. 

I agree 100% re the level of our wages. We are never going to be able to compete with a good number of the teams in our league. And many lower/non league English clubs are financially ahead of us also. We are limited in the quality of player we can recruit from "the usual sources" so that heightens the need for a fresh approach and a strong youth development programme...notwithstanding that some will follow the route of Bailey Rice and a good few others.

In hindsight I wonder if our strategy of working with an expanded squad for CoVid reasons hamstrung us to a degree, especially as various contracts were then extended....using up much needed resources over the following one or two seasons. How does the actual size of our squad compare to the likes of Livi, County, St Johnstone etc? I wonder if they are working with smaller squads enabling them to offer higher wages, within the same overall budget that we work to. If that is the case it will likely take time for us to reach an effective balance.

I really do believe we have arrived at a time where the Club will need to look at their entire strategy moving forward. A new Manager is only part of that. I sense the Board have much thinking to do.

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Were definitely in a bad spot right now but let's not hold up the likes of livingston and ross county as some sort of yard stick,no disrespect to either but we're a far better club in every way than those and a few others in the league.theres no doubt wevr had a shocker for the past few months,from selling watt to a rival and then the form since january falling off a cliff,in hindsight alexander should have went at the end of the season,we went into a european tie so under prepared it was criminal but the season can still be salvaged if the people at the club keep calm and get the right man in,were in desperate need for some players but not just any players we need atleast 2 or 3 that will make a difference.on our recruitment it's been all over the place for a wee while now,this summer's signings seem lazy at best,morris is 30 that's previously worked with alexander but he doesn't look cut out for the level were at,spittal is nothing more than an average spl player,we sign him then play him in a different position to the one that he caught alexanders eye in playing for county.signing mcginn would only have made sense if odonnell had left,maybe we were trying to move him on but now we're stuck with 2 experienced right backs,it should have been one or the other with Johnstone getting some game time to see if he could be the successor.weve been down a hole before in between managers and it's turned out ok,there's no reason why it can't this time but there's definitely a big few weeks coming up from us.

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16 hours ago, wellfan said:

Nick Daws is a pal of Alexander, and I would argue that he owns some of the serious problems we have with our current squad. Perhaps (or hopefully)  we'll see him mutually consented soon too. 

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2021/06/11/nick-daws-appointed-head-of-recruitment-operations/

From that article. Alexander says. “He’ll embrace and introduce new ideas to how we work, using all the tools the modern game provides."

Don't really know what that means but regardless, it failed. He recruited players who couldn't even do the basics. 

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