Haggischomper Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Sums it up well for me, Melvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I think the desired effect of the people singing this song was to get right at McGhee. I think if they called him an arsehole then there is no way it would upset or make him feel the same way it did to be called a paedo. That is why they "simply" did not call him an arsehole. Im not saying it was right for the people to sing it but they certainly achieved their objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I think the desired effect of the people singing this song was to get right at McGhee. I think if they called him an arsehole then there is no way it would upset or make him feel the same way it did to be called a paedo. That is why they "simply" did not call him an arsehole. Im not saying it was right for the people to sing it but they certainly achieved their objective. I understand that but, again only my opinion, the end doesn't always justify the means. And I know that's not what you're saying, Dee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFCGMFC Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 i was at the game only a few rows in front of the "certain section" there was definitely no sectarian chanting, unless it was in whispers! i did hear "dirty cheatin bast***" directed at Lee Miller after his dive which could only be misheard by the journalists? btw i must have been watching a different game from what was said in teh reports in the papers? each one of them said the linesman on our side had a good game? he missed 3 blatant offsides and not one mention of our 'nalty claim! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I have wrestled with this issue for a couple of days. Not aimed at you in particular Melvin, just I think that line there, in my opinion, is a big part of the problem. A fair amount of people trying to work out how offended they are supposed to be. It bothers some folk, it doesnt bother others. Someone said something you don't like....move on. There are certain things that the majority of people think just shouldn't be said. Over 33% of votes on the other threads poll, show that the word "paedophile", isn't one of them. That might be hard for the people who think it is, to hear...but the fact of the matter is that there are a lot of people who dont agree. Not a comment on what I think of it, just an observation of the situation we've been left with. In fact edited to say, yeah...I will give my opinion on it. I think it was a bit of a pathetic thing to say, and there was no need for it. However, I think the level of outrage for the sake of outrage is ridiculous, and to be honest, that bothers me more than what was said in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Not aimed at you in particular Melvin, just I think that line there, in my opinion, is a big part of the problem. A fair amount of people trying to work out how offended they are supposed to be. Perhaps a bad choice of words to say I wrestled with the issue. I haven't been fretting over how offended I am by the whole thing. I've been trying to figure out where I stand on it. Like it or not, it is causing some divisions among our support. Outwith that, at work yesterday a few colleagues (football fans and not) asked me about it. I think to have no opinion on it would be me copping out a bit. My gut instinct was to say "That's a bit OTT". The "wrestling" to which I referred was actually me having to think of what the worst thing I'd said/heard and accepted at the football before. I think it's very easy to be outraged/offended without thinking too much about it. Having considered all the examples I mentioned in my earlier post, I've still come to the conclusion that it was a bit much. Does it mean I'm horrified and offended by it and those who sang it? No, but it's not my cup of tea. A lot's been said about how Motherwell supporters will be perceived after this. I think (and without wishing to go off topic or overstate anything) there is a wider issue about how football fans are perceived by those non-fans who encounter them. I've never seen old ladies cower or cross the street to avoid rugby fans or parents tut and shake their heads at cricket fans on a train. Football fans in Scotland are not allowed to drink at a game when rugby fans can. Are football fans more menacing/aggressive than fans of these sports? Are we less intelligent? Are we somehow a lower class of fan? Probably not, but paedophile songs, the Old Firm sectarianism, the violence at West Ham recently and when Rangers reached the UEFA Cup Final all lead to that impression. Are paedophile songs at the lesser end of that scale? Yes, by a long way. But they still lead to the feeling that football fans are scum. That's the phrase that was used in a conversation with me yesterday. 95% of fans I know could not remotely be described as that, but the other 5% make a lot of noise and frankly give the rest of us a bad name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wearethemotherwell Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Maybe to bring bit of context to it, Aberdeen fans views on tartan army board... 'Oh aye, and Mark McGhee has guaranteed the same reception from Motherwell fans next time the clubs meet by showing the world his big petted lip. Was he expecting an ovation from the Motherwell fans or what?' 'In truth I think it was the song about "you'll never get to Celtic" and "you're just a sh*te Tony Mowbray" were what upset him the most. Quite an impressive selection of Mark McGhee songs coming from the South Stand. All perfectly audible from the home dug out! If he'd had any sence he'd have laughed it off...' 'I didn't hear anything sectarian. And given that I understood almost everything I heard its a pretty cheap card to play by the Sunday Mail. A classic example of media "whataboutery" I think...' 'I would guess that there are far bigger fish to fry in terms of sectarian abuse, ( and just for the record, I never heard anything of the sort from the Motherwell fans either, albeit I am at the opposite end of the South Stand, although that's not to say they didn't ) therefore lets see the powers that be tackle that first in terms of credibility, rather than 'picking' on the easy targets. In the end I should think that this is all paper talk, as it could be sorted in a heartbeat if the SFA/League really wanted to - we know it, they know it!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star sail Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Maybe to bring bit of context to it, Aberdeen fans views on tartan army board... 'Oh aye, and Mark McGhee has guaranteed the same reception from Motherwell fans next time the clubs meet by showing the world his big petted lip. Was he expecting an ovation from the Motherwell fans or what?' 'In truth I think it was the song about "you'll never get to Celtic" and "you're just a sh*te Tony Mowbray" were what upset him the most. Quite an impressive selection of Mark McGhee songs coming from the South Stand. All perfectly audible from the home dug out! If he'd had any sence he'd have laughed it off...' 'I didn't hear anything sectarian. And given that I understood almost everything I heard its a pretty cheap card to play by the Sunday Mail. A classic example of media "whataboutery" I think...' 'I would guess that there are far bigger fish to fry in terms of sectarian abuse, ( and just for the record, I never heard anything of the sort from the Motherwell fans either, albeit I am at the opposite end of the South Stand, although that's not to say they didn't ) therefore lets see the powers that be tackle that first in terms of credibility, rather than 'picking' on the easy targets. In the end I should think that this is all paper talk, as it could be sorted in a heartbeat if the SFA/League really wanted to - we know it, they know it!' This is from an Aberdeen fan? Speaks a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 This is from an Aberdeen fan? Speaks a lot of sense. It's from numerous Aberdeen fans. One of them has also posted up this link: Evening Express. It'll be interesting to see if George Douglas mentions anything about sectarian chanting in his match report. If he does, he is a fucking liar and the club should do everything in their power to refute the claims. If it's just about the paedo chants, then I don't see how the SFA can do anything given some of the chants that are belted out at football matches throughout the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Never mind the actual words used, generally the banter is pish of late. Cringeworthy songs like the paedo one and Marky Reynolds one for example but am too auld tae get involved so cannae really say much but the youngsters need tae learn fae older fans what is and isn't acceptable. That hasn't been the case whereas years ago we learned from the older guys. These days they have to make it up as they go along. A bit of common decency used tae run true throughout our support, sure we've had wir bangers but we also had some self respect which meant we avoided crossing the line in certain areas. In my view this one crosses the line, not for the vile disgusting reasons the media make out but for our own reasons of acceptable behaviour. Some might think that's a bit rich coming from me cos pretty much anything goes in my book normally but it all comes round to your own standards, if you think chants like this are acceptable in the current climate then a section of our fan base is going off on a different tangent, no two ways about it. We can be crude with a bit of humour to make it acceptable, I don't hear that much to be honest. It's just crude for the sake of it mostly. Puts Ice Rink up there with Stock, Aitken & Waterman some of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 For everyone who is condeming our fans for the paedo song. Why did no-one kick up and get stuck into our fans when it was sung in Llanelli, and that has been refered to on this site several times. Or when it was sung to the Celtic fans. Is ot now just a case of taking the media's side and jumping on the band wagon? Is it OK as long as we don't get caught? As mon da well will testify - we had a discussion about this at Llannelli. Where he was telt it was shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 What? Like those holier than thou who have referred to those involved as 'neds' or step forward Steve Diggle, who referred to 'little pricks'? Yes, the references to child abuse were not excusable, but, the chants should be taken for what they were, a piss-take. It's the latest bandwagon for the faint hearted on here to get their drawers in a twist, touch wood the obituary column in the Times this week doesn't feature anybody Motherwell related... Board overload. Step forward another little prick - Yours Sincerely Faint Hearted Over Sensitive Easily Offended SteveDiggle Edit: What I think is hilarious about this is - that in defending the little pricks that call someone a paedophile - someone pulls me up for calling the perps little pricks. This proves that the ability to understand the things that people like myself, fatcalf, melvin etc are saying just isn't there. We're all tarred with the same brush based on the way either extreme of the support behaves - most of us are pissed off that in going so far you've tarred us all with your infantile humourless brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML1 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 The folk that think its alright arent going to change their mind because the self righteous are pontificating about it, no matter how many 6 pagers of tug of war get posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatcalf Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Self righteous? Moi? Fuckin' Hell, last week I was a bigot, today I'm a self righteous pontificator. Really couldnae make this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML1 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Self righteous? Moi? Fuckin' Hell, last week I was a bigot, today I'm a self righteous pontificator. Really couldnae make this up. It wasnt aimed at you in particular but are you saying you've never done worse than shouted abuse at the game ? And that the youth of today could learn from the eighties where those smartly dressed youths stopped and had a ponder when the older fans said '"c'mon chaps , have a think" Cant believe ive added another post to this shite and helped it towards a 7th page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Self righteous? Moi? Fuckin' Hell, last week I was a bigot, today I'm a self righteous pontificator. Really couldnae make this up. That's the hilarious part of all of these arguments - self rightgeous, outraged, PC brigade gone mad, hyper sensitive, holier than thou, ponificators etc etc etc. Nah - just part of the Anti-Shit Banter brigade The patters a fuckin red neck to be associated with. I offer "Andy Wanker You're a Walker" - a whole terracing / or stand (canny mind the timing) in unison letting a guy (who was a great wee player) know that he wasn't getting away with walking out to the Sellick. A 'funny' chant that everyone could join in if they felt like it, addressed the issue in that he had 'walked' - belter - that's what we used to be about. Like others have posted there's a whole host of dodgy songs that have done the rounds in scottish fitba (Celtic, Brewster, Gough, etc etc) all offered in defence of our mob on Saturday but as some have pointed out these are all based on a widespread rumour or a real story or incident. Calling McGhee a paedophile is just too far. What's not to fucking 'get' with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yabba's Turd Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 So it's ok to sing these songs if they are based in rumour? I don't necessarily have an opinion on what was sung on Saturday, all day on the sauce/chemicals is always going to produce some kind of incident, but I also think if Mcghee had kept his lip in it would have passed without the furore. Let's keep our fingers crossed for yesterday's paper being today's chip poke and hope it isn't mentioned in the match report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 So it's ok to sing these songs if they are based in rumour? I don't necessarily have an opinion on what was sung on Saturday, all day on the sauce/chemicals is always going to produce some kind of incident, but I also think if Mcghee had kept his lip in it would have passed without the furore. Let's keep our fingers crossed for yesterday's paper being today's chip poke and hope it isn't mentioned in the match report. Just to clarify although I suspect you actually knew - in my own personal opinion some of them are still pish - however with some of them at the very least in their defence someone could state that there was a rumour or a story doing the rounds in footballing chat that people could relate to. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infamous Wee Grafter Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I was thinking about the certain little paedophile track last night and if you think about it, he did shaft the youngsters during this time in charge.............................. by restricting their first team chances at the end of last season for the likes of Sheridan, Kimpl etc etc. Here aw week, boom boom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I don't think we've a leg to stand on Al. Using the term 'we' very loosely, 'we' can't complain about a false sectarian accusation if 'we' think it's OK to falsely call someone a peodophile Erm...we can, actually. Leaving the ground on saturday, we were talking about how the paedo stuff would be all over the papers, and given that we had actually sang that we couldn't really complain. However, lumping in the 'f****n' patter aswell was a chance for the media to imply that there is a widespread sectarian problem in football (which there isn't) to detract away from the fact that only two teams are guilty of this on any real scale. In the generation before this, illigitimate children was the taboo subject in society and, in a bid to be contraversial/offensive as possible, it was latched onto by football fans everywhere and nowadays you can't sit in a stadium for two minutes without hearing someone being called a bastard and nobody bats an eyelid. Also, nobody jumps to the conclusion that the 'victim' of the shout is of dubious parentage, much in the same way that nobody with a brain will leap to the conclusion that the 'Well fans are seriously accusing Mutley of any paedo tendancies. I think people need to lighten up a bit and stop panderring to the mainstream media - the level of mock outrage is more embarrassing than the chants themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailor_h Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 although i agree that it was unacceptable, what made me more angry was the fact that that band of supporters were the atmosphere in the park and obviously well heard within the ground. So why not sing motherwell songs and cheer on the team you paid to watch and, em, support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotts Well Fan Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Erm...we can, actually. Leaving the ground on saturday, we were talking about how the paedo stuff would be all over the papers, and given that we had actually sang that we couldn't really complain. However, lumping in the 'f****n' patter aswell was a chance for the media to imply that there is a widespread sectarian problem in football (which there isn't) to detract away from the fact that only two teams are guilty of this on any real scale. In the generation before this, illigitimate children was the taboo subject in society and, in a bid to be contraversial/offensive as possible, it was latched onto by football fans everywhere and nowadays you can't sit in a stadium for two minutes without hearing someone being called a bastard and nobody bats an eyelid. Also, nobody jumps to the conclusion that the 'victim' of the shout is of dubious parentage, much in the same way that nobody with a brain will leap to the conclusion that the 'Well fans are seriously accusing Mutley of any paedo tendancies. I think people need to lighten up a bit and stop panderring to the mainstream media - the level of mock outrage is more embarrassing than the chants themselves. Just out of interest when we were accused of monkey taunts of Jason Scotland a few years back how did you react then? I am sure that you like most of us on here were appalled and emabrrassed for the club to be tarnished by this. Why if this is not right is a Paedo chant then acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 ...95% of fans I know could not remotely be described as that, but the other 5% make a lot of noise and frankly give the rest of us a bad name... It was no small minority of fans at Pittodrie who were singing the paedo stuff. Was more like 50/50. If it had been a minority, then the majority could have easily drowned it out, but most people seemed to have preferred to sit on their hands and then scurry down the road to spout their drivel on an internet site. Also, attempting to 'out' people who were guilty of it is pretty pathetic. If you know the individuals involved, and you weren't happy with their conduct, you should have enough about you to go up and tell them your grievance. Some fairly cowardly and pathetic folk on this forum if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Just out of interest when we were accused of monkey taunts of Jason Scotland a few years back how did you react then? I am sure that you like most of us on here were appalled and emabrrassed for the club to be tarnished by this. Why if this is not right is a Paedo chant then acceptable? For two key reasons I would say - Jason Scotland is black. Mark McGhee is not a paedo. Racist/sectarian chanting is sung with venom. The paedo stuff is sung in jest. Simples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvinBragg Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 It was no small minority of fans at Pittodrie who were singing the paedo stuff. Was more like 50/50. If it had been a minority, then the majority could have easily drowned it out, but most people seemed to have preferred to sit on their hands and then scurry down the road to spout their drivel on an internet site. Also, attempting to 'out' people who were guilty of it is pretty pathetic. If you know the individuals involved, and you weren't happy with their conduct, you should have enough about you to go up and tell them your grievance. Some fairly cowardly and pathetic folk on this forum if you ask me. I'm not saying it was 5% who were singing it on Saturday. I'm saying that 5% of fans I know could be perceived (not by me) as scum by some due to their behaviour. I'm not trying to out anyone, Frazzle, and I hope you don't think I'm leading some kind of witchhunt (you know it's not my style). If I disagree with what someone says at the football, I tend to speak my mind (ie tell them to "Shut the fuck up!!"). And as I've already said I'm not horrified or disgusted by the paedo songs (perhaps I should be, maybe I've been going to the football too long) but I do think it was a wee bit unnecessary and painted us in a bad light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts