Third Place Could Be Out Of Reach Says Mcghee

[rinkydink]

MARK McGHEE spends as much time with a calculator as he does a tactics board. The Motherwell manager is not one to limit himself to the one-game-at-a-time approach favoured by so many in the game.

 

Sunday's 4-0 thrashing of Dundee United extended Motherwell's undefeated run to four matches and prompted McGhee to exclaim that his side, up to seventh in the Clydesdale Bank Premier League, could replicate last year's achievements and go on to finish the season in third place. During a quiet moment on Monday, however, he retired to a corner of his office with an abacus and emerged with a revised target for his team to aim for in the remainder of the campaign.

 

"It's funny as before the game on Sunday I had it in my mind that if we beat Dundee United we would have a chance of finishing third," he revealed. "And then on Monday I went away and did the maths. I'm usually not bad at working out how many points teams will get and what it will take to get third. The reality is it's a bit more than I thought.

 

"It's going to be pretty difficult although we might manage fourth. But to get third we would probably have to win eight from our next 11 games before the split and that might just prove to be too difficult. We'll probably need 52 points, or at least 50, going into the split, though we'll need to be within four points of the team in third going into the split. By then I expect Hearts will have 55 or 57 points."After struggling through most of November and December without a win to their name, Motherwell's recent transformation has been quite remarkable. McGhee, though, offers a simple explanation. "We're not a squad that can afford to have four or five players missing and maintain our level of performance."

 

Inverness, who dismissed manager Craig Brewster earlier in the week, inadvertently provided the catalyst for Motherwell's recent revival.

 

"We were lucky that when we got our players back it was Inverness we were playing," said McGhee. "They were at a low and we were able to take advantage. That kicked us off. If we had been sent to Tynecastle, Easter Road or Celtic Park and lost 1-0 but played well then we could have said, well we have our players back but still no win. Instead we were able to jump straight back into it with Inverness and get a result. We were lucky we could capitalise on that."

 

Transfer business in and out of Fir Park continues to be minimal. There have been no further developments in Hearts' attempts to entice Chris Porter, while Motherwell's bid to take Byron Webster on loan from Czech side FK Siad Most until the end of the season has stalled.

 

McGhee did confirm, though, that Michael Fraser would arrive from Inverness in the summer as Graeme Smith stalls on signing a new deal. "It's about money. We're trying hard to get something for nothing," said McGhee. "I spoke to the team in Czech Republic about taking the lad Webster on loan until the end of the season with a view to a purchase but I don't know if they will go for that. We don't have any ability to go out and buy him at the moment.

 

"Graeme Smith hasn't committed so we felt that it was prudent to get somebody now so if does walk away then we've got at least one goalkeeper rather than scrambling about in the summer and being held to ransom."

[Ya Bezzer!]

At this stage finishing in the Top 6 would be a good recovery. I don't really see 3rd place or Europe as a realistic proposition unless we hit some seriously good form, i.e beating all the teams above us at least once.

[Haggischomper]

What's all this "we need to win 8 of the next 11" and "50 or 52 points is probably what's needed" pish? What the hell happened to one-game-at-a-time manager-speak? This is making me sick as a parrot, frankly.

[johnstone]

What's all this "we need to win 8 of the next 11" and "50 or 52 points is probably what's needed" pish? What the hell happened to one-game-at-a-time manager-speak? This is making me sick as a parrot, frankly.

 

He did it last season - saying we needed 10 points or something after the split and he was spot on! We got the required points and then some.

 

Its just his method and it worked last season.

 

If Aberdeen, Hearts and Dundee Utd stay as consistent as they have been then I doubt we can get anywhere near 3rd place, but I certainly think we can make the top 6.

[Gaag]

I don't like how he's come out and said he got Michael Fraser in purely so if Smith goes away or asks a kings ransom, we've got cover. Dunno if there's anything going on behind the scenes with Smith and a new deal, but that comment doesn't show much loyalty in your player imo

 

And I would be disappointed if the Webster deal has stalled, especially since McGhee seems to actually want him now. That'll leave us with hee haw all other than a cover goalkeeper so far this window.

[mon_da_well]

Like I've always said, top 11 is the minimun, top 6 is a bonus. Anything else is fantastic.

[Frazzie]

I think he's been spot-on in that interview. I think the battle-cry about as catching Utd, etc was to give the players belief before what could be described as the most difficult trip in the SPL. It obviously done the job as we romped it 4-0. I think todays comments may be more to stop the fans getting carried away and expecting too much.

 

Most teams, over the course of a season, have a sticky patch. Aberdeen had their at the start, we had ours during November/December, Hibs had their, so we're coming into a bit of form going into the business end of the season and, regardless of how well we do, if Hearts and Dundee Utd remain consistent for the rest of the season, they deserve the Euro slots. However, Hearts are always liable to implode at any time and we've just shown that we don't have anything to fear from Utd.

 

So, in short- I don't expect third, or even fourth, but there's every chance that 5th could do it and the cup's shaping up nicely for us aswell. I'm quite positive.

 

Frazzle

[Malky79]

Think he could have done with taking more responsibility for our piss poor form, sure we had our problems but think he handled them badly.

 

I wouldn't rule out third though we are very much an outside shot. We have four teams to overhaul and it isn't Hearts I concerned about, as Frazzle says they likely to implode at any time even without losing players in january. Them and Hibs are there for the taking but Aberdeen and Utd have enough of a cushion that it is in their hands to lose. I'll be happy if we close the gap enough to make them nervous bit like Aberdeen managed to do with us last season.

 

If games go to form we'll be travelling to Easter road a week on saturday and we should be level on points with Hibs, how that game turns out will go as long way to deciding what it is we end fighting over. Cue dropped points this saturday now, hopefully not.

[Motherwell Seagull]

I don't like how he's come out and said he got Michael Fraser in purely so if Smith goes away or asks a kings ransom, we've got cover. Dunno if there's anything going on behind the scenes with Smith and a new deal, but that comment doesn't show much loyalty in your player imo

 

 

In the same context, Buzz is not exactly showing us a great deal of loyalty himself.

 

If he wants a move he could just say he wants a move instead of hedging his bets, dragging his feet etc and simply saying that he wants to see what else is out there (am not criticising Buzz for doing this - he is entitled to do it as is Porter and everyone else).

 

Yes I am overstating Buzz's position, but all McGhee has done is look after the club for next year. He was quoted yesterday as saying that he is still hopefull of retaining Buzz, and ideally we will have 2 keepers next season instead of hunting for loans etc.

 

Many would deride McGhee if he did not have a Plan B should Buzz move on - we shouldn't criticise him now for actually acting and covering that base.

 

As they say, the ball is in Buzz's court

[Motherwell Seagull]

Think he could have done with taking more responsibility for our piss poor form, sure we had our problems but think he handled them badly.

 

Am in two minds on this point.

 

Instinctively I agree with you, but then I struggle to see how he could have done much different, and improved matters substantially. I think the reality is that he has been hamstrung in terms of injuries and suspensions, and that is all he has really claimed.

 

We have a squad that can ill afford to loose more than 1 or 2 players at a time. I don't believe this is necessarily McGhee's fault as he does not have the financial backing to simply go get players to replace what we have - unless we first free up wages somewhere.

 

I do think he should have reacted to the fans differently. Regardless of the rights and wrongs, he was quoted as saying that he did not care what the fans thought. Again, being fair to McGhee, he has since stated that of course he cares about what the fans think, and I guess that is as close as we will get to an apology.

 

For what its worth, I think that those comments highlight that McGhee is a proud and passionate guy, who is doing everything he can to do his best for us. I think he has been stung by the criticism he has had from some quarters and reacted poorly - but that is just typical of people who are passionate about what they do.

 

I remember when I first heard him speak as Brighton Manager. I was impressed with his apparent openess, knowledge and common sense. Over time I don't think he can be accused of changing a great deal - of course, his message may not be what fans want to hear, but if you want a manager that communicates, you have to take the good with the bad.

[Wellfan1984]

Anyone thought he is doing the same thing he did after Accies just using different words. After Accies humbled us he came out and said Motherwell were the worst side in the league, and he was the worst manager.

 

Here he is saying we're not going to get a European Place.

 

Basically he is asking for the players to prove him wrong. So far, it worked the first time.

 

I don't like how he's come out and said he got Michael Fraser in purely so if Smith goes away or asks a kings ransom, we've got cover. Dunno if there's anything going on behind the scenes with Smith and a new deal, but that comment doesn't show much loyalty in your player imo

 

Yet he would be slated if come the summer we had NO goalkeeper in place! McGhee nor Motherwell can wait till the summer to see what Buzz decides to do.

[CoF]

What's all this "we need to win 8 of the next 11" and "50 or 52 points is probably what's needed" pish? What the hell happened to one-game-at-a-time manager-speak? This is making me sick as a parrot, frankly.

 

Eh? Where did that torrent of abuse come from? Geez a reasoned assessment of his comments and folk might be able to understand yer point.

 

 

 

 

In the same context, Buzz is not exactly showing us a great deal of loyalty himself.

 

Remember, Buzz was apparently the lowest paid keeper in the SPL last year and as far as I know still is. If that's true then he's shown a great deal of loyalty to the club by staying on this season after more than proving his worth last year.

[Motherwell Seagull]

Remember, Buzz was apparently the lowest paid keeper in the SPL last year and as far as I know still is. If that's true then he's shown a great deal of loyalty to the club by staying on this season after more than proving his worth last year.

 

Putting this into the context of my last post, should we consider McGhee to have displayed untold loyalty by not only being less well paid than other managers, but also by turning down a bigger wage to stay at Motherwell, and especially just by turning down FHW?

 

I don't know where Buzz features in the table of goalkeepers salaries, but I don't think honouring your contract can be described as loyalty.

 

To be clear, I am not anti Buzz, far from it. I simply believe that McGhee is getting a hard time for signing a pre-contract with a goalie when in fact we may need a new goalie in the summer. As I said in my last post - many would deride McGhee if he did not have a Plan B should Buzz move on - we shouldn't criticise him now for actually acting and covering that base.

[Neil]

I think McGhee is actually one of the better paid managers in the league, certainly after the summer.

[the fox]

As one of the first posters and the journo who wrote the article says what is wrong with one game at a time? Anyway hope it works

[Malky79]

Am in two minds on this point.

 

Instinctively I agree with you, but then I struggle to see how he could have done much different, and improved matters substantially. I think the reality is that he has been hamstrung in terms of injuries and suspensions, and that is all he has really claimed.

 

We have a squad that can ill afford to loose more than 1 or 2 players at a time. I don't believe this is necessarily McGhee's fault as he does not have the financial backing to simply go get players to replace what we have - unless we first free up wages somewhere.

 

I do think he should have reacted to the fans differently. Regardless of the rights and wrongs, he was quoted as saying that he did not care what the fans thought. Again, being fair to McGhee, he has since stated that of course he cares about what the fans think, and I guess that is as close as we will get to an apology.

 

For what its worth, I think that those comments highlight that McGhee is a proud and passionate guy, who is doing everything he can to do his best for us. I think he has been stung by the criticism he has had from some quarters and reacted poorly - but that is just typical of people who are passionate about what they do.

 

I remember when I first heard him speak as Brighton Manager. I was impressed with his apparent openess, knowledge and common sense. Over time I don't think he can be accused of changing a great deal - of course, his message may not be what fans want to hear, but if you want a manager that communicates, you have to take the good with the bad.

 

PR handling aside I think he seemed to totally turn away from the the type of football he aspires for us to play for a couple of months. We basically humped the ball up the park a lot and got nowhere. I know we had injury problems, but they came mostly at the back. Clarkson did also missed a few games and he is a big miss in the system we play.

 

He persevered to long with Sutton and Porter for my liking. No harm to Sutton he got us a few goals when he came in but him and Porter doesn't really work. Murphy is a bit raw, Darren Smith probably not got it really, and O'Brien now featuring but I think these guys should have got more of a chance when Clarkson in particular was out. Stick to our footballing principles and try and ride out the rough patch til everyone comes back.

 

McGarry seems to have faded back to fodder after a bright start under McGhee but sticking him left side of midfield for weeks doesn't help him. That said we were bypassing midfield for a good while.

 

All seems well now and I delighted that the players seem to be giving the manager everything, I seriously doubted McGhee to point where I thought he'd completely lost it. Last few games we look a decent outfit as well as one that seems solid. during the worst spell we all talking about missing McCormack and he is a miss but the guys still here have shown that they can play some decent football still. Think McGhee has somewhat made excuses to cover his own mistakes.

 

I'll not bang on about it to much, I don't really care, certainly not while we winning. :-)

[Motherwell Seagull]

I'll not bang on about it to much, I don't really care, certainly not while we winning. :-)

 

Decent post. You'll get no argument here!

 

I despaired at the football we played, with Hamilton in particular being a low point for me personally. That said, without the players being available who pass the ball well (and Quinn in Midfield), I should have known that our silky passing game would have been thrown out the window.

[Dodge]

Remember, Buzz was apparently the lowest paid keeper in the SPL last year and as far as I know still is. If that's true then he's shown a great deal of loyalty to the club by staying on this season after more than proving his worth last year.

 

I think your getting confused with the article which suggested we got better value for money out of him in terms of saves per wage. Yes he's prob one of the lowest paid keepers in the SPL but surely I'd guess that both of Caley's keepers earn less and that Gretna's keeper last season was on less.

[Haggischomper]

Eh? Where did that torrent of abuse come from? Geez a reasoned assessment of his comments and folk might be able to understand yer point.

 

 

Pssst, it was a joke on the usual manager-speak guff - hence my comment about 'sick as a parrot'.

[SuperCC]

On Mcghee - I've been impressed more and more by his comments since pre the Accies game. He seems to be trying to play the Alex Ferguson type card by using the media to both unsettle the opposition whilst challenging his own squad (who will be totally aware of the part played by the media) and we need to accept this as a part of modern football. If anything its good to see more of his media time spent talking about his own club and for me he will ultimatly be measured on the teams performance over the whole season so lets see what happens!

 

On Buzz - love him to bits for what he has done on the pitch for us and that can never be taken away but lets not talk nonsense about loyalty etc just yet. If he wanted to be at FP next season we wouldn't be getting the cover and as he will be out of contract he no doubt will already be talking to other teams (or his agent will be). I would wish him all the best and no hard feelings if he decides to take more money and step up to a higher level cos we would all do the same and he has done a decent turn for us and made me smile a few times.

[SuperCC]

Forgot to mention re the original topic that I totally agree with anyone who says third place is out of reach this season, and by saying that I'm not being negative or anything like that - just totally realistic. But, and its a very big butt, I wouldnt write us off for fourth place or maybe even stealing a europe spot with a lucky fifth place (assuming we dont get in by winning the cup!).

But for any of that to happen we need to be winning consistently and look for that "turning point" when you actually can start to think "we might just do this!".

 

That "turning point" might vary for some people and it definetly wasnt hammering Utd at the weekend but if you think of last season I always think it was the He@rts game in the December when not only did we steal an away 3 points but every single other result that day was perfect for us. On that day I suddenly thought "we might just do this!".......

 

You know what I mean?

[Big Stall]

Well in two weeks time these games are played......

 

Saturday, 31 January 2009Falkirk v AberdeenHamilton v HeartsHibernian v MotherwellRangers v Dundee UtdSt Mirren v Kilmarnock

 

Wins for us, Rangers, Accies and Fakirk, would fairly help your turing point.

 

And I bet you'd get cracking odds on it too!

[El Grew]

Given the poorish start to the season and the recent sticky patch he's probably correct.

 

He may be using physchology on the players by saying this and 'daring' them to prove him wrong.

 

However, we might still be able to make 4th spot and I seem to recall reading somewhere that 4th spot this season gets into the UEFA cup.

 

Anyway a top 6 spot would be a good base to build upon for next season.

[Wellfan1984]

Forgot to mention re the original topic that I totally agree with anyone who says third place is out of reach this season, and by saying that I'm not being negative or anything like that - just totally realistic. But, and its a very big butt, I wouldnt write us off for fourth place or maybe even stealing a europe spot with a lucky fifth place (assuming we dont get in by winning the cup!).

But for any of that to happen we need to be winning consistently and look for that "turning point" when you actually can start to think "we might just do this!".

 

That "turning point" might vary for some people and it definetly wasnt hammering Utd at the weekend but if you think of last season I always think it was the He@rts game in the December when not only did we steal an away 3 points but every single other result that day was perfect for us. On that day I suddenly thought "we might just do this!".......

 

You know what I mean?

 

Aberdeen were out of the picture at this stage last season, and lets be honest it took a very nervous match at Fir Park to finally put them away. Granted it is unlikely any of the clubs above us will go through what we did in the last half of the season. But then again, they all have to play each other, and if we beat them when we play them then how is it unrealistic? Unlikely as it may be, it could be alot easier that it looks, if they all cut each others throats.

[Richie]

Given the poorish start to the season and the recent sticky patch he's probably correct.

 

He may be using physchology on the players by saying this and 'daring' them to prove him wrong.

 

However, we might still be able to make 4th spot and I seem to recall reading somewhere that 4th spot this season gets into the UEFA cup.

 

Anyway a top 6 spot would be a good base to build upon for next season.

 

As will fifth if its an O/F cup final or the 3rd/4th placed teams compete in it (against each other or the O/F)