Onthefringes Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 It seems to me that there's a few posters on here who are going out all guns blazing to wind up and take the piss out of the trust. Without knowing the full story, I don't see the point of the Trust wasting money on the football team if they aren't going to get any extra members out of it? Just seems like the money could be better utilised elsewhere. Obviously I don't know the full story though, so don't really want to say too much in case i'm completely wrong! Wondered when you would get your oar in. You don't see any point? Then make that statement with your closing sentence? To reiterate our stance, we value the Trust's assistance, in return they get their name promoted through our use of Well Trust FC, not exactly money for nothing. Never been an issue until, dress it up how you like, clear personal agenda and stated untruths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Sorry to repeat myself, but there's no agenda on my part. If there was, the MST would be throwing money at FirParkCorner FC and I could easily justify it as we: a) Have more Trust members in our team than WTFC does. b) Have more Motherwell supporters in our team than WTFC does. c) Give more money to Motherwell FC than WTFC does. However, from a Trust point of view, it wouldn't make sense to do that for the same reasons as it doesn't make sense to give money to WTFC - I don't think that the non-MST members in FPC would join up if the Trust did sponsor FPC so there's not enough benefit in it for us (MST). We also declined a request from John Porteous last season as it was too much money for not enough return. As much as we want to support the club (and WTFC for that matter!) there has to be some sort of return from our point of view. To be honest, Onthefringes, I'm surprised you're having a pop at me aswell because when we spoke about this before I thought we had discussed it reasonably and understood each others point of view. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 It's one thing when you don't give us anything in return, but when you attempt to publicly undermine us and further damage our reputation, I don't see why we should be held to ransom by you. Frazzle I've said it before but I'll say it again I do not know any of the parties involved but you quite obviously cannot take your FPC hat off and show yourself to have a major grudge against WTFC that screams out loud whenever any points of discussion are raised on here.( a public forum!) Because of that I'd say that you are doing more to undermine the reputation of the MST than the OP. Even if the first post was a challenge your fellow MST members had done enough to answer it with the fact the matter was in hand, whereas you go off on one and spout off what now looks like a load of misinformation instead of stepping back and discussing it with the MST board. Pro or cons of the sponsorship aside, you clearly struggle take an unbiased opinion on the matters involving WTFC. red rag to a bull comes to mind. EDIT: and your last post just re-iterrates the fact, you think FPC more worthy than WTFC but your a,b,c fails to mention that your team isn't called WTFC and you keep going on about the team players having to join the trust to deserve the donation/sponsorship, miles oot in my opinion as then they would be as well just paying the membership money into the own club coffers for the amounts concerned. It shouldn't be about forcing people to join the trust to get sponsorship it should be about promoting the trust and making people want to join AND ANOTHER EDIT: just seen in your post the trust declined a request from John Porteous (club physio) because it was too much money for not enough return ???????????? I've seen the accounts report from the trust and was also led to believe that the Trust was setup to help the club and support. I would have thought that since next to fuck all was done for the club last year (I'm sure you'll correct me but the disabled section is all I recall and its not even started for other reasons) any request from one of the most critical departments of the club should have went thru' without the requirement for a return. That statement has pissed me off more than any of your petty squabbling and since its fans money your talking about we're not getting enough return from your decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I think I've answerred that with my previous post. The only reason I felt I should post was because it was me who 'ignored' the pms. I wouldn't want my colleagues to take the flak for my shortcomings, so I thought I'd put that point straight. Unfortunately, it has snowballed from there. As I've said, I don't want to discuss this much more as it won't do anyone any favours, but I have no agenda against WTFC and would be happy for the Trust to negotiate a more suitable sponsorship deal than the one currently in place, even if it means spending more money on them. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 In reply to your edit - I absolutely agree. It's not fair that to play for a football team, you have to sign up and pay money to a completely unrelated organisation. I also agree that sponsorring the WTFC, or anyone sponsorring anyone for that matter, should be about promoting your organisation/company/whatever, but that's not happening in this case. How many new members do you think MST gains by people hearing that Matts team is called WTFC? A round figure, I bet. As I've already said, I'm not against sponsorring the team in theory - but the current situation is pointless. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onthefringes Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 To be honest, Onthefringes, I'm surprised you're having a pop at me aswell because when we spoke about this before I thought we had discussed it reasonably and understood each others point of view. Very much so, until spurious claims made by yourself on this 'ere thread. Thin ice skating methinks. Cannot disagree with post from Brazilian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grievesie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 b) Have more Motherwell supporters in our team than WTFC does. Last time I looked at our squad list the 25 signed players we have are all Motherwell supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I'm not for a second saying that you have guys playing for you that don't support Motherwell - I don't know many of the guys in your team so couldn't possibly comment on their alliegances, but we have more players than you and they're all Dossers, therefor... However, that's irrelevant to what we're discussing here. I only used that to point out that I could justify using my position in the MST to benefit FPC but have chosen not to do so, which shows I can leave my FPC hat at the door when Trust matters are involved. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Just spotted that other edit from Brazilian there - Aye, you're right that one of the key functions of the Trust is to support the club, but it's also important to us that Motherwell fans know we're doing it. John Porteous asked for us to purchase items that were very expensive (about £3500 if memory serves me right) and that would never be seen by anyone. I think for that level of investment, it's not unreasonable to want to be able to give something that will be seen with our badge on it. We've provided various pieces of training equiptment (goalposts, etc), but when you start talking about thousands of pounds, it's only reasonable that we should be recognised for it. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimH Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Sorry to repeat myself, but there's no agenda on my part. If there was, the MST would be throwing money at FirParkCorner FC and I could easily justify it as we: a) Have more Trust members in our team than WTFC does. b) Have more Motherwell supporters in our team than WTFC does. c) Give more money to Motherwell FC than WTFC does. Frazzle As someone who doesn't have anything to do with FirparkcornerFC or WTFC (or the Trust, but that's another story) could I comment on the above. a) Understanding the size of the Trust membership, that wouldn't be hard. b) Grievesie has already answered this. c) Before the relaunch of this forum it was in fact WTFConline. As such we, the forum members, contributed each year for the sponsorship of various players. I don't know how many we sponsored over the years, but I am sure that on a number of occasions there was 3 sponsored at any one time. In addition as WTFConline, it gave access to the workings of the trust with a separate forum, therefore promoting the Trust to many more than just those who play for the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I don't want this to become a tittle-tattle between two football teams. We've been there before and gets us nowhere. The three points I made are all completely true, but that's not what we're discussing here. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I don't know how many we sponsored over the years, but I am sure that on a number of occasions there was 3 sponsored at any one time. It may have been 2 or 3 players for each of the last 3 years Jim. The site has sponsored one player this year, through the sterling efforts of the Brazilian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimH Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 It may have been 2 or 3 players for each of the last 3 years Jim. The site has sponsored one player this year, through the sterling efforts of the Brazilian. Yes, but was that not mainly due to the problems with the site at the beginning of the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfcmainstand Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I also have nothing to with any of the above mentioned associations, but i consider the way this is being done to be rather childish and unprofessional,can this not be taken to a private meeting to be discussed outwith the eyes of people who are just trying to stir things up thus stopping all the future arguements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmcalpin Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Yes, but was that not mainly due to the problems with the site at the beginning of the season? No, not to my knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I thought the site and the football team were seperate anyway? Because if the football team have enough money to sponsor three MFC players a season then they wouldn't be asking us for £200! For what it's worth, FirParkCorner FC, as a football team, through our own fundraising (not through randoms having a whip-round) and similar things, have put a four figure sum into Motherwell FC each of the last three seasons, and have also given four figures to charity over the past twelve months. This is without a penny in hand-outs or grants. Given that the MST also commit to supporting the local community aswell as MFC, that is how I could justify putting Trust money into the Corner. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimH Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I thought the site and the football team were seperate anyway? Because if the football team have enough money to sponsor three MFC players a season then they wouldn't be asking us for £200! Frazzle I at no time claimed that the football team sponsored the players, but only that this forum originally developed from the same group of people that were involved with the WTFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfcmainstand Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I also have nothing to with any of the above mentioned associations, but i consider the way this is being done to be rather childish and unprofessional,can this not be taken to a private meeting to be discussed outwith the eyes of people who are just trying to stir things up thus stopping all the future arguements clearly not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 This is going no further, either publicly or privately. I've already wasted more time than it's worth on it and I'm now washing my hands of this debate. It's unfair to attempt to engage in a battle of wits with an un-armed opponent. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Just spotted that other edit from Brazilian there - Aye, you're right that one of the key functions of the Trust is to support the club, but it's also important to us that Motherwell fans know we're doing it. John Porteous asked for us to purchase items that were very expensive (about £3500 if memory serves me right) and that would never be seen by anyone. I think for that level of investment, it's not unreasonable to want to be able to give something that will be seen with our badge on it. We've provided various pieces of training equiptment (goalposts, etc), but when you start talking about thousands of pounds, it's only reasonable that we should be recognised for it. Frazzle Fair enough that you should be recognised for an investment this "large" but does the equipment itself really have to carry the Trust badge? Is a bit in the programme and/or the website not enough recognition? Will the folk using the equipment really care who provided it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Fair enough that you should be recognised for an investment this "large" but does the equipment itself really have to carry the Trust badge? Is a bit in the programme and/or the website not enough recognition? Will the folk using the equipment really care who provided it? I didn't really mean that whatever we donated had to physically have our badge on it, but the particular stuff he was asking for wouldn't even have been suitable for a photo opportunity. I can understand the viewpoint that, as the Motherwell Supporters Trust, we shouldn't be declining requests from the club, but I think the line has to be drawn somewhere. But please, be assured that there is some significant MST investment in the club forthcoming and should be confirmed and publicised shortly. Frazzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faddyisgod Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 I didn't really mean that whatever we donated had to physically have our badge on it, but the particular stuff he was asking for wouldn't even have been suitable for a photo opportunity. I can understand the viewpoint that, as the Motherwell Supporters Trust, we shouldn't be declining requests from the club, but I think the line has to be drawn somewhere. But please, be assured that there is some significant MST investment in the club forthcoming and should be confirmed and publicised shortly. Frazzle Couldnt the photo opportunity have been when you hand the big cheque over? LIke it usually would be. Surely you guys werent actually going to go out and purchase the equipment yourselves?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Fair enough that you should be recognised for an investment this "large" but does the equipment itself really have to carry the Trust badge? Is a bit in the programme and/or the website not enough recognition? Will the folk using the equipment really care who provided it? Nail. Hit. Head. I do not really care about a amateur football team sponsor but was the stuff needed? will mst only donate stuff that us a 'good photo opportunity? is the trust set up for the benefit of MFC or MST? Handing over a cheque is good enough for Children in Need it's good enough for mst. If you ever wonder why the likes of me are no longer trust members ......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bop Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 And they wonder why people think the trust is pishflaps ? Its about as much use as a chocolate teapot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLip69 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 The more posts I read from Frazzle the further away I get from ever joining the Trust. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that assessment. Weeyin, you were bang on. Of course our Sidney's only interested in the punchline, not the storyline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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