dennyc

Have Motherwell issued any sort of public statement condemning the idiot or idiots who have shamed the Club and promised to take action when they are identified? I would have thought such a declaration would have been almost immediate. I can find no mention of the incident anywhere on the official site.

The quality of player in the MLS is improving every year. South and Central Americans see it as a route to Europe so the technical ability within the teams is of a good quality. Certainly higher than here. If, and it is an IF, Hastie does go there for a few years then he will have a great opportunity to develop further amongst quality players whilst enjoying a great lifestyle. He is young enough to return to the UK in a few years, financially secure and with the liklihood of joining a decent side. If he does well, who knows where he could end up? Newcastle's recent record signing came from Atlanta and has fitted in well to the EPL despite playing for a struggling team. It is too good an opportunity to miss. And it's not Rangers.

At least two big differences off the top of my head. Attendances of over 50.000 and Atlanta win Championships. Admittedly towards the bottom now after four games, but do you think they will remain there? Think they now have Frank De Boer as their new Manager .

Atlanta. Free to say now as revealed elsewhere. Seems a huge step to me, but that is what I was told

I was told last night that an MLS Club had outbid Rangers and that Rangers were not prepared to match the offer. In fact they were pissed off as they thought a deal had been agreed for Hastie to go to Ibrox. So they stepped away. Good for us if true. They guy has usually been spot on with his Scottish info so I tend to believe him....and it ties in with the comments now out in the press. He did mention a Club but I was a bit dubious at first given who it was. And then I saw Steelboy's update. But its definitely not to team up with Rose. A much more established team than that.

Hearing from a Rangers contact that Hastie is off to join Weeyin, for more money than on offer from Ibrox.

Think that was in summer 2017 per newspaper interview with Craigen in Feb 2019. "But former Well Under-20s coach Stephen Craigan reckons seeing just how BAD his fitness was gave the Fir Park winger with the wake-up call he needed. Craigan said: “When the young Motherwell players came back in the summer of 2017 we did weight and fitness tests on them all. “Jake was bottom of the pile. I think he’d been on holiday with one of his mates during the summer and it showed. “Compare that with last summer. He started the season flying in training and I asked him what he’d done different. “He said he hadn’t gone away on holiday, he’d just trained. “That was nothing to do with me or any of the coaches at Motherwell. I think the penny had dropped with him that he had responsibility for his own life. That he could be a football player or a beach boy. “We sent him on loan to Alloa. Jim Goodwin probably didn’t know it, but we knew he’d done all right in League One on loan at Airdrie and now we wanted to see how he got on in the Championship. “But while he was there he was able to play for our Under-20s and a couple of the games were at Fir Park, so the coaching staff got to watch him. “It was quite funny. The staff had a chat around October and we were discussing what we wanted in a wide player. "The identikit was someone fast, physically strong, who would get you a goal or two. “I said, ‘We’ve got one like that, but he’s out on loan at Alloa!’. “But although he was on a season-long loan with Alloa, there was a clause allowing Motherwell to bring him back in January and we knew pretty early on we’d be doing that." “But the way Jake has developed is down to the coaches he’s had and the way he’s applied himself.” So in the summer of 2018 he was earmarked for return in January 2019, having got his fitness and attitude sorted out as the penny had dropped. Also regular updates from Craigen confirmed Hastie was making progress at Alloa and Jim Goodwin was delighted with him. He was also doing all that was being asked of him when he played for our youth team. We knew last year he was close to breaking into the first team, in fact that was the plan. Hastie's attitude and fitness was a huge part of that intention.

Yet again you completely ignore what people are saying about the timing of making a contract extension offer. You conveniently turn the discussion to January when releasing players freed up some cash . How about about last summer when money was available but wasted on the likes of Sammon and Taylor-Sinclair.... and others. That is BEFORE he came to the attention of Clubs such as Rangers, and the cash they can offer. We had clearly marked him as one for the future at that time, as stated by Craigen and Robinson way back then. So I'll repeat the direct question I asked you over a week ago. Third time of asking. Do you think Hastie might just have signed a new contract last Summer had he been offered one? Even a one year extension would have protected us at relatively minor cost. Last summer, when he had already been earmarked as a player with a better chance than most of making it. And at a time when their was a buzz about the place having reached two Cup Finals. That is the point some people are making and which you seem to ignore. Of course we can't make players sign. We all know that. Even if we had made an offer, he might have stalled. But the timing of any offer can make a huge difference and the Club may well have got it wrong with Hastie. I wonder what you would be saying if Turnbull had opted to leave as well..........and McGuire, and Scott,....... also belatedly offered extended contracts. Talent like Turnbull and Hastie possess is a rarity, particularly at a relatively small Club like Motherwell. For what it's worth I hear the offer is nowhere near the £15k PW quoted but it is way above what we can offer. Like others, I heard the figure was £4k PW on a 4 Year deal . By comparison (from a family member) David Bates left Rangers for Hamburg because Rangers were not prepared to go anywhere near the £7K on offer in Germany, even though Bates was in their first team and wanted to stay at Ibrox. Why on earth would they gamble £15k per week on a youngster with very limited first team experience. But if he goes, good luck to the boy. And if he is getting £15k PW even better. i wish him well. He might have a familiar face joining him very soon.

I'm just glad that there are options and we can actually choose someone. Several months ago the thought of picking Players of the year would have been laughable. Unless it was based on the least disappointing. I agree Turnbull had an amazing impact by way of goals, chances created,composure..... but I think his biggest impact was that he brought hope and belief and lifted a group of fans and players who had all but given up on avoiding a relegation battle. So I can see the argument for him winning both awards. But for his heart, desire and will to win no matter what, my player of the season is Aldred, with Turnbull as young player. Special mention to Gillespie also.

I agree to a great extent. It is a balancing act. I just wonder if we are being as smart as we could be. Perhaps we have also been victims of our own success, or more accurately the success of our recruitment and youth development strategy. To produce such a group of outstanding youngsters at the same time is fantastic, but it is exceptional and does have financial implications. My argument is that I think a further investment in Turnbull, McGuire, Scott and Hastie......all players who had passed every test with flying colours, had featured in first team squads and and were clearly thought by our coaches to have a better chance than most.....would have given us a better return and been less of a risk than some of the decisions that were made last summer. Even if only two of the four actually went on to higher and greater things, the income from that would more than offset the cost of the two that did not move on ( £20/25k as a guesstimate). And how often are we likely to be lucky enough to have four exceptional youth players emerge at the same time? Two would be great but in reality zero is also a possibility. If Hastie does move on, how much more would we have received if he were on a higher wage with a year to run on his contract? We would be in a much stronger position. Even if he sat out that contract and then moved on, we would be entitled to a greater Development Fee. I think it was a risk worth taking last summer with him (and the others). Yes Weeyin, that is subject to us persuading him to sign . But I honestly believe we had a greater chance then than we have now. On that note, can anyone who watches the current Reserve Team on a regular basis honestly say they witness players of the quality of Turnbull etc etc? From what I've seen, only Semple might be approaching that level with Livingstone another possibility. Beyond that I am struggling but it is a time of transition, player and coach wise. Semple was approached by several other Clubs when he joined us at age 14 and I know of one at least who are keeping an eye on his situation. As you say he is out of Contract in May and he will have a decision to make. Despite what some folk are suggesting on here, I'm not talking about huge wage increases or four year deals with the potential of bankrupting the Club. A 12 month (18 months max) contract, to be reviewed if the player graduated to the first team seems reasonable . A mini Hibs deal if you like. Also not every player will tick all the boxes like the four I mentioned . So , again contrary to what some folk are suggesting, I am not proposing that every youngster who has a couple of good games should be regarded as the next Lionel Messi and offered mega bucks. I am talking about players who have arrived at Reserve level having passed all the quality lines and who are....just about...first team ready. I can understand us losing younger players , McKinstrey to Leeds and Miller to Rangers as examples. Tom Leighton, who opted for Watford and went on to Captain Northern Ireland U19s is another, He is currently doing well in Watfford's U20s. There can be many reasons why players such as those move elsewhere at a young age, and not all under the control of the parent club. And different Contract Laws apply. It's the outstanding kids that are almost there that I think we need to be more clever with. They are our future both on the pitch and financially. Particularly if Project Brave is still a factor (seems to have gone all quiet on that front) and we get highly rated youngsters placed with us for development.

Until Easter Road I would have agreed with you, particularly with Grimshaw doing well on the right. But I thought Tait had his poorest game for a while on Saturday and Grimshaw was also a bit below par. Hopefully a "one off" as that formation has worked extremely well of late. But it did get me thinking again about players being set up in their best positions. Hibs certainly seemed to get in behind both on a regular basis, perhaps because both of them naturally were drawn inside? But as I say, that set up has worked well of late.

Good questions. Only thing I would add is that the Club may intentionally run down contracts for those players they wish to manage out. You would need to filter those out to achieve a true measure but how you do it I don't know. And maybe the rules are different the younger the player? I do recall that Robinson (and Burrows I think) indicated that they had opened discussions with Hastie and Turnbull when they broke into the first team, following the media highlighting that both were at Pre Contract Agreement stage. After that we also signed up McGuire and Scott. Maybe they had all been in discussion previously but it casts doubt in my mind. It probably did not help our case to be saying things like"We've made our best offer and now it is up to XXX". Even if that was the case.

Apologies if I misunderstood. No offence intended. I'm enjoying the Debate though.

Oh, I don't blame the youngsters at all for making the decisions they see as best for their career and/or finances. But there does appear to have been a fair number of highly regarded prospects recently whose contracts have run down. Did all of them turn down offers before they reached that stage? I honestly don't know but I doubt it given the numbers concerned. An earlier poster quoted similar examples from a couple of seasons ago. Your comment re Newell and Gordon is fair though. It does appear more difficult to hang on to players the younger they are (Miller, McKinstray) , But as they reach Reserve Team level they are more established with a proven track record (Turnbull, Hastie) and I just worry that the Club could be more proactive in attempting to secure their long term commitment to Motherwell. Not all will be Superstars but a few stand out above the rest. Wee bit more about the Alkass Cup for anybody interested. If you're not., please ignore. It's easy to dismiss Rangers achievement because we detest them. However they were the 6th British team invited to take part, following Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Arsenal and Celtic. It's an elite Tournament. They were the first British team to win it, beating top teams from all over the World. And they won it with a kid from OUR Academy to the forefront. One of the best players taking part. We do produce top quality players through our Academy and I want us to do all in our power to retain such players, particularly if the survive to Reserve Team level.

Fair points and spot on. I tried to cover the financial implications for the likes of Motherwell by saying that 3 years was maybe a step too far. And that it applied to only a select few players, perhaps less at our Club compared to Hibs. I do appreciate that money is an issue, but last year I believe we did not use our resources as prudently as we should have. And yes we don't really know Motherwell's process. But Hastie, Turnbull, Scott, McGuire and McKinstrey all appear to have been highly regarded but allowed to run their contracts down, possibly to the detriment of the Club in the long term. If someone can confirm that all five were offered extended contracts last summer please do so. At least that would confirm the Club did their very best. So I believe it is acceptable to ask questions. Others appear less relaxed about asking those questions. Scoojy, re Thomas. He was at the Club for a relatively short spell (5 years and Celtic Youth before that) and ,yes, there was a clamour to play him in the first team. I think based on his impact from the Bench against Hearts where he laid on a goal? Fair play to him for that. From memory he failed to grab his chance after that and, in my opinion, flattered to deceive and had limitations....like his final ball. Perhaps that's why he is now at Dumbarton, admittedly doing very well. Turnbull, Hastie and others have been with us since age six ,have been carefully managed through various age groups. and have always shown the application and determination to succeed. They performed well over a number of years and passed every test placed before them with flying colours. Fortunately those two grabbed their first team chance and did exceptionally well almost immediately. To my mind they were always a safer bet than Thomas. So a comparison with Thomas is not comparing like with like. Some will cope with the move up, some will not. But I believe the Club has a duty to protect our investment when exceptional talent with a proven track record comes along. But it's all about opinion. Each to their own