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I think the 'abuse' bit is a convenient scapegoat. He's realised he can't turn this round so he is going now to protect the legacy of the good things he has done, unsullied by a potential relegation battle, now leaving a club that has backed him to the hilt in the transfer market managerless with only a week to go in the window. That Daily Record piece could have been written by SK himself, all the positives, none of the negatives.10 points
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This forum is exactly the type of place for these discussions to be had by fans. The whole concept of sharing opinions and information on topics of shared interest is the very reason why such fora exist. At the end of the day, this is a ‘fans’ forum, and nobody is forcing the manager or players to read our thoughts. This is not the open terracing where folk often shout unnecessary and viscous crap at people trying to do their jobs, which is a whole different story. So, if robust and colourful debate on the suitability of Kettlewell as manager is too much for some, then that’s not the problem of the forum, it’s your problem.10 points
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Given that fan conduct is a hot topic this week, you'd think that at least one outlet would question Celtic fans proudly singing IRA songs in a City which was the location of a high-profile terrorist incident. Not a peep though 🤷♂️9 points
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8 points
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I’ve been watching us now for more years than I care to remember and have to agree with your sentiment. I feel our club is in poor custodianship right now. Well-meaning people they may, be but utterly lacking in knowledge, skills and know-how as to what’s required to run a professional football club. Where are the changes and the investment that the Well Society were touting about when they railed against the potential US investors? For me it’s been downhill ever since and with no sign that anyone at the club has a handle on how to turn things around. The fans are now beginning to vote with their feet as shown by our attendances. Today we had 3,973 (couple of hundred from Dingwall?) and now regularly around that mark. Today Falkirk had just under 7,500 and Raith Rovers had about 3,800!! Poor attendances, a real live possibility of relegation which would lead to a drastic fall in revenues, no investment on the horizon. Sorry for being so negative but I think it’s a very bleak outlook for our club.7 points
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I'm with you mate, been disillusioned for a long while on and off the pitch, but backed the WS and increased my subs after Barmack as I thought it might be the start of a new dawn. I am so angry at the way the club (and WS) has handled this and lost control, throwing us all under the bus, and generating huge negative publicity for the club, and the only reason the correct narrative is getting out there now is from non club channels like Graeme McGarry in the Herald, Tam Cowan, and some sensible fan interviews. But damage has been done. The Well Society have been virtually silent. Their comms was great during Barmack, and in general since, but apart from one vague statement there has been nothing. Now perhaps they decided against adding fuel to the fire, but a simple appreciation of SK, a condemnation of abuse but speaking up for the majority of a fan base that supported the manager last season during a 15 games winless run (hi Aberdeen) might have redressed the balance.7 points
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I think most if not everyone knows that there is no way the media, especially BBC Scotland would allow Aberdeen fans to be tarred with the same brush based on the actions of a few individuals and a manager using that as a convenient excuse to quit to save his reputation like as what has happened with us. The narrative has been set and this is going to run for a bit yet. People are gullible sheep who generally believe what they’re told if they’re told it enough times so the media know they can get traction with this and will keep pushing it until something else comes up. I’m pretty disgusted with the club and some of the subservient pish they’ve come out with over the last week to be honest.7 points
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Scunnered with this saga already. Media can get fucked, nothing but reptiles, Kettlewell has played a blinder in waving the "poor me" flag, sums him up, zero accountability.7 points
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For the second time in a row a manager has taken us from a relegation situation into the Top 6 and then been abused out of his job. There is no way around saying this, a lot of our fans are deplorable human beings.7 points
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I think the majority of the 2000 or so Motherwell fans who were there today would support Casey if he did actually have a go at Kettlewell. in doing so they would not be excusing Casey's own abysmal performance but holding a Manager to account for what has now been dished up in four consecutive away performances. And at other times earlier in the season. As to the future if Kettlewell does leave, any new Manager will also be called out if fans are expected to suffer what we have seen in those four matches and others....... having had two years to build his own squad.. And why shouldn't he be? Like you, like many on here and in the stands I was supportive of Kettlewell when others were not so keen. As you have said, he earned leeway. Injuries, VAR decisions, the youthfulness of some players and our league position have been touted in his defence. Valid to a degree. But enough is enough. Tynecastle was bad. Rugby Park was worse. Easter Road even worse. And then today. And by the way, every team has to deal with injuries and sometimes those injuries can appear overwhelming. That's why teams have a squad and why Boards support Managers in bringing in players as cover. Nobody can deny that SK has been supported in that manner. Again that maybe brings the focus onto the nature of players recruited. I keep hoping he will try something different in an effort to pick us up. Agreed, he does change the line up from time to time but nothing changes tactically or approach wise. If the squad is incapable of changing formation then that is down to the Management team that constructed the squad. Today straight from kick off we handed the initiative to a team adrift at the bottom of the league. A team you would think more fragile than us. I had hoped he would do things differently for once. Something that would encourage me to support him a bit longer. More fool me. Does anybody really think it will be any different next week?7 points
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I just like to help out in case the correct information is in a book that's banned in Texas.6 points
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Although it does save me the cost of coming over to see Celtic beat us in the final.6 points
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Well after hearing it all and how we've been flung under the bus this week I have stopped my well society contribution and have let them know that I'm extremely disappointed with how the club have handled it in the media and the narrative that's been spun. If I'm a part of a group od big bad buggers to you then you won't wish to have my money that I work longer hours than SK ever did and for a lot less money. I've had 1 day off in the last 14 days and I work 10-14 hours a day so the financial outlay of going to football I expect to see a team fighting the bit out and trying to play some football. I've never personally abused anyone but the way fans have been painted this past week has been saddening and I'm so disappointed on our club right now6 points
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You don’t need to reply to every single post that you don’t agree with 👍🏼6 points
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I think the accusations of abuse are being taken out of context. It isn't nice I get that but I think its just the next phase in the wee tantrum hes been having over the last few weeks. If his family were attending games then they would have been in earshot of the wide ranging feedback he was receiving from the paying customers. Rightly or wrongly no manager is immune to stick from the stands, and from our main stand in particular. The reality is if I was a manager I don't think I'd have my close family in the stand but that's just my outlook. The abuse isn't any more than any other manager in a rough patch has recieved. Take Stevie Robinson who was being labelled an imposter at the end (he was anything but). I've never disliked Kettlewell, I wish him the best, but he was never the man to take the club forward in my view. Time to dust down and move on. Stephen Frail is not the one to do that.6 points
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Sorry to see him go but glad that he mentioned the personal abuse being a factor. Some people just can't help but show their class and they are a stain on our club and on Scottish football in general.6 points
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I normally enjoy your posts as they are always thoughtful and well reasoned, but I think you are off the mark with this one. The manager and the team may or may not be in turmoil, I would say thats quite a subjective assessment. But things in the garden are certainly not rosy. We have a squad with 9 injured players, several of them long term, a situation which has been pretty much ever present since the start of the season. The team is misfiring badly and is struggling to create any meaningful chances, far less score consistently. We cant keep a clean sheet. We have a manager who is wedded to a system he doesnt have the players to implement and shows no sign of changing it. The style of football has been terrible for large parts of the season and we just got knocked out of the cup by the worst team in the league without so much as a whimper. Ive defended SK on here for the most part as there has been plenty of mitigation for performances and the circumstances he has had to face. We ARE still in a reasonably healthy position in the league, and until that changes he does deserve the opportunity to turn things around. But lets not pretend its a conversation that shouldnt be happening, because its getting talked about plenty in the stands and in the pubs. Thats not to say the discourse surrounding the subject cant be more respectful. But we shouldnt be comparing this place to Twitter or Facebook.6 points
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It's not though. What we often forget is that there is a human being on the other end of this discussion, who is working really hard for the club and who has saved us from relegation in the last two seasons. This thread was started very early in SK's tenure and has trundled on throughout his time at the helm. We are talking about a guy who has a career to build, a family to feed and who is an honest hard worker professional who has done well for this club. The appetite to sack managers is generally distasteful and it is really easy to be smart ( and often anonymous) on a football forum. I am not referencing you in this mfc88, just quoting your last sentence. Sacking manager threads should surface in times when a team is in turmoil. This team is not in turmoil and yet there are fans hell bent on creating instability and a false sense of turmoil. It seems that this is now as much a part of the entertainment as the football itself. I think SK deserves a bit more respect. He has earned it.6 points
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I've been critical of our fans for many years, but in the case of SK, I think barring the usual inarticulate numpties on fb and twitter, by and large those on here and P&B have been pretty measured in responses during last years bad run and this most recent situation. I do think though that Saturday's reaction has been on the cards for a wee while but I also think SK has also become a bit of a lightning rod for what has been an abysmal 6 years or so since Robbo held his hands up then GA sucked the life out the place, and Hammell's ill fated tenure. Apart from the Spittal/Bair purple patch, there has been no excitement in watching our team for a long time. I like SK, and he has a lot of credit in the bank for getting us clear of relegation, keeping calm, keeping the dressing room, and guiding us clear of trouble the following year. The support deserves credit also for by and large sticking with him during that spell. However a lot of goodwill was used up, and the signs are there that he is not responding well to the difficulties this season, the well documented injury situation, his pressers have been more downbeat, criticism of players/team more regular, a passive inflexible tactical set up, poor haphazard recruitment, and the constant yellow/red cards is doing no one any favours, but indication that he is feeling the heat. He must at the moment feel the world is against him and Saturday's (justified btw) fan reaction will have cut deep. The rumours of dressing room issues add to the problems he faces. He needs help and I find myself wondering what his assistant and our 'army' of coaches are bringing to the table. I hope for his sake and ours he can turn this round, but it would need such a change in approach that in my heart of hearts I can't see it. When you lose the support its only a matter of time, and seeing negative comments from fair minded folks previously supportive on here and Pie&B says to me he needs to arrest this slide starting Saturday or rightly or wrongly things will become toxic at matches benefitting none of us.6 points
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Took a night off to digest that yesterday and offer thoughts when less emotional. Firstly what a great away support yesterday. Large in numbers, but also started the game in good voice. Much better than the team. Couldnt really argue much with the starting line up due to injuries and differing levels of fitness, but it wasnt long before the same old mistakes reared their ugly head. Slow ponderous possession. Wing backs way too deep to help an overun midfield and literally zero secure possession to build any play from. The worrying thing for me was the body language of some of the players. Something has changed and some of them clearly look like they no longer believe what the manager is telling them. Others look like they dont understand what they are being asked to do and as a result you get the impression of a team that isnt trying. I dont believe that to be the case, but its very difficult to give your best if none of the building blocks are there to allow you to do so. Felt really sorry for Kai Andrews yesterday. He was having a poor game no doubt. But he is one of the few actual footballers we have at the club and he was left cruelly exposed yesterday with little or no support. Hooking him felt harsh, and I felt there were other options that could have been explored to support him rather than remove him from the game. Thought the one bright spot in the first half was Nicholson. I had forgotten what a good footballer he is. Hopefully he can build up his fitness and become an integral part of the team in the second half of the season. Second half was a bit better, was just a shame Nicholson couldnt last the 90 minutes as it would have been nice to have seen him and Slattery on the pitch together but clearly they need their minutes carefully managed to prevent any relapse. Overall, a depressingly predictable performance and result which reduces the second half of the season to a scrap towards safety. The supports patience with the manager is clearly wearing thin and he will have to dig out some results in the next few weeks if he is going to avoid it all turning a bit toxic. Our league position keeps him safe for now, but if we get dragged down into the battle for the play off place, the wolves will rightly start to circle. He needs a tactical re-think or a big window (or both) to stall the immediate decline in our fortunes until he can get our better players back fit and into the first team. If he does that he will survive. If he doesnt, then this happy clapper will have to admit its time for him to go.6 points
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6 points
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Casey was horrendous today and was rightly hooked. Casey is an old fashioned Centre Back and nothing more. Asking him to play on the right of a back three with responsibility for covering wide right and with no support from a right wing back who appears to have decided defensive duties are not for him is madness. And that is down to Kettlewell. Same applies to the left side. Every opponent we play targets those wide areas for good reason. If Casey was having a go at Kettlewell for repeatedly sending out a formation that exposes him and others, and fails week after week, then good for him.6 points
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Bruce Cleland and Joe Carson scored , remember it like it was yesterday.5 points
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Wonder if any of those posters are looking for a transfer, they seem to know more than a few on here5 points
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Steven Craigan is the only one in the " Media Gang" who has actually taken time to look beyond the banal, lazy shite journalism of "they are 5th, been in a semi final, what do Motherwell fans expect" You could tell all season that he's basically seen us for what we are, thought we are shite and couldnt see what were were trying to do tactically, without actually saying we are rank rotten.5 points
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Just in and saw Kettlewell had resigned due to fan abuse. Jeez, that's a convenient scapegoat. Abuse goes hand in hand with a football manager. Fans pay hard earned cash in the current cost of living crisis and they go to FP for some pleasure and maybe be entertained which his team tactics couldn't provide. They are entitled to voice their displeasure. He had obviously lost the dressing room, arguments with players, throwing players under the bus in interviews, tombola football, blaming everyone but himself. Happy to take the plaudits when we won but it was everyone else's fault when we lose. Then after the last two horrendous results he turned on the fans. To be honest he should have been gone during last seasons long losing run. He has signed only two players who had a touch of skill and brought that to show, Maswanhise and Theo Bair last season. The rest of his signings you wouldn't get a balloon for. Ultimately it was his style of non football that the fans couldn't stomach any longer. We are the worst football playing team in the league and the last two games against the bottom team just brought it fully into focus. I wish him no ill, but if the board had the guts they would have sacked him before today. Either way he will walk with a severance package.5 points
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Probably inevitable but at this moment in time I feel a bit ashamed being a Motherwell fan given the circumstances. Some of our support really are *****.5 points
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I mean, he signed Bair, Biereth, Furlong, Gent, Spencer, AP, JT, Gordon, Seddon, Kaleta, all if whom seem to be consensus good signings. He has got Miller to this stage, and improved Max and Spittal to the degree that they got good moves. Wilson has flagged lately but it wasn't that long ago we were all raving about him too. He also got a ridiculous tune out of KVV, and an equally ridiculous fee, but we prob don't want to talk about that one much. I know he's signed a fair few duds as well, but I'm genuinely interested to see his hit rate compared to other managers, and what other clubs our size have been selling folk for.5 points
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You have to be on something to type that. The man's a complete liability. Get him tae f..k.4 points
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Two weeks to get ready for this game btw and we get served up that utter embarrassment.4 points
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Ok, I know I shouldnt, but Im going to bite. Frail is doing the job because he wants to continue being paid. Unless he had another job to go to he would be off his head to do otherwise. Secondly, even if he doesnt want the job, the new guy might not want to bring in their own backroom team, so he might get to stay on. Thirdly, he will feel a loyalty to the players. Someone has to take the team until there is a new appointment and he is the one best placed to do it. Otherwise you are down to Clarkson, Foster and Obika taking the team. Hammell and Kettlewell were both appointed by the previous board who had clearly ran out of ideas / enthusiasm for the role as can be seen by many of the other decisions taken around that time. Given that most of us roundly supported the WS flexing their muscles to chase Barmack and become more hands on in their approach, and roundly welcomed the new appointments to the board, I think its a bit churlish to suggest that they will fall at the first hurdle and take the easy option. Previously, we had sacked managers and had to pay the severance that goes with that. We didnt have a lot of money to throw at a new manager as we were still paying off the previous two. Thats no longer the case and SK walked so presumably didnt get a pay off. It stands to reason we are in much better shape this time around (still sitting top 6) to take our time and get the right appointment. Thats not to say Frail shouldnt be considered if he wants to be. But there is absolutely no reason to think he is a shoe in because of past appointments.4 points
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4 points
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We will be fine when the new manager sets up wi aw wur goalies lennon miller n aw wur centre forwurds loose nae goals n score hunners top 6 NB ⚽️⚽️👍👍4 points
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I guess we’ll be waiting a while to find out as the CEO seems to be in mourning instead of doing his job.4 points
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Word salad. I was being descriptive on an observation. As for the Well Bois comment - on a Stewart Kettlewell discussion thread? An irrelevance much like yourself. I’ve defended them, not once have I said they never put a foot wrong. For the record, I’ll wager you know nothing of the Well Bois given the make up of those who frequent that area of the stadium. Plenty of your musings on what’s an emotive subject this week are exactly that - inane. An understanding of dressing room politics and doubling down as you refuse to believe is lacking sense or meaning. All in the schooling I suppose. At no point did I mention your opinion isn’t welcome. Playing victim card once again - no bother.4 points
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The whole thing has been a clusterfuck from the club. I worked in HR for years. The first thing you do is do an investigation before issue a sweeping statement putting suspicion on everyone. What should have happened is 1. SK should have advised BC when he first became aware of personal abuse. 2. BC should have told SK what support and mitigations would be put in place to ensure he stayed as manager if that is what he truly wanted. Those mitigations should have been a statement issued from the club along the lines "the club have been made aware of personal abuse being directed at SK from a small number of fans located in XXXXX. The club will not tolerate this. Stewards and Security have been alerted and going forward any supporters found to be carrying out such abuse will be ejected from the ground and temporary bans put in place. Repeat offenders will have lifetime bans imposed". but no they just issue a statement saying we have regrettably accepted SK resignation because of abuse from fans. A curse on all our supporters allowing a media feeding frenzy to develop. If the club did offer this solution to SK and he still wanted to resign they should have said so, along the lines of "the club have been made aware of personal abuse being directed at SK from a small number of fans located in XXXXX. The club will not tolerate this. The club offered to put mitigations in place to give SK assurances that this will not go on un-challeged. SK has refused such an offer an we have regrettably accepted his resignation".4 points
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Clearly abuse is not appropriate but neither SK, Caldwell, the 'well society and the majority of the press have acknowledged the underlieing problem and the fact that it was becoming a major issue with or without abuse! The form, the stats, the preparation, the abysmal lack of fight and the continual inability to learn lessons, adapt and change is the real problem. SK with his what would seem apparant lack of self awareness has chosen to ignore these issues and tell us all he is gone because some roasters have shouted at him. While said roasters are clearly in the wrong, the fact that the abuse would appear to be the main reason and not these other factors would seem very convenient. For me, while its not an ideal way to end things, his tenure had run its course. He couldnt fix the problems and we move on.4 points
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4 points
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Jeez can we please not start booing SOD on Sunday if he plays?. Really fed up with the pelters that lad takes. Yes he hasn't been playing well but seems to get blamed for everything, anyone got proof? Hmmmmm4 points
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SOD knifed Alexander and Hammell. He’s a fucking charlatan that should’ve been chased long ago. Fuck him.4 points
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Manager critcises fans for abuse manager abuses refferees / 4th officials personal abuse from fans in not accceptable but come to feck stuart you have been working your ticket since you slated the fans youv managed to get out while your stock is slightly high but youv seen the mess we are in and only heading in one direction if SF sets up on a totally differant formation in the next 3 games that we might suspect there was a differance in opinions beetween manager and assisant time will tell but i personally think SK has pulled a stroke on his timing of this and his BBC radio scotland pals will rally round him , except craggs who has been highly critical of the way we play and the stats of posecion and shots on goal Any way onwards n upwards and dont let the door hit your arse on the way out stuarty boy am sure you will pop up elsewhere talking about 5 th place ,semi final , theo, blah blah But you wont talk about how bad weve been for weeks , tumbolla team selections, sq pegs in round holes, etc you will spin it all out bout your good times , but dont forget, YOU turned the fans against you NEXT PLEASE 👍4 points
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Probably be accused of being a cynic but Kettlewell for me has chosen to use abuse rather than criticism albeit severe at times lately. Suits the narrative of every ones fault but mine.4 points
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That's nonsense, just because you are swimming against the tide doesn't mean your opinions are not welcome, it's a fan's forum not an echo chamber, be very dull if we all agreed. Forums can be a bit of a cesspit at times but I've found SO far more balanced and less confrontational than it used to be. You have made very good points and have been consistent, but if you post a view on a fan's forum you have to expect it to be challenged if someone disagrees,, but you seem to take it personally when someone challenges your views, my advice is try not to, just counter it, then just let it go. FWIW I am very much known amongst fellow fans I see at games as a 'Happy Clapper', have never barracked the team or an individual, something I hate to see happening, and I don't like to see hard working guys like SK fail, so I understand where you are coming from. However my view has now changed with the evidence on show in recent weeks, and this is only ending one way sadly.4 points
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In the great scheme of things, the referee's poor performance on Saturday wasn't a huge issue. We had other more pressing issues with which to contend. However, John Beaton was very inconsistent. Yes, I recall that very incident which had many fans on their feet in protest. I can't, in all honesty, blame SK for complaining about those decisions. I'm one of those sad fans who dislike stealing yards at free kicks and throw ins and so take an interest in such decisions. Beaton constantly pulled up our players for stealing yardage at throw ins but blatantly failed to do so with St Johnstone who were equally as guilty.4 points
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I see Paul Smith is recovering from a heart attack, wishing him a speedy recovery. Him and Andy Walker had a good partnership in the 80's, both ....ahem.....crisp finishers !! 🤪 Get well soon Smudger, will never forget that equaliser in cup at tynecastle in 1987 when you cemented Henry Smith to set up Walker, plus your overhead effort against Rangers in league cup semi in 1987 also4 points
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Is this what you mean by colourful and robust. Each to their own. I don't think I have a problem if all I am suggesting is that the manager of the team we support be treated with a little more respect, particularly when he has contributed significantly towards keeping us in the top division. As you well know, social media is powerful, perhaps more powerful than the man shouting obscenities from the stand and it can create a tone, positive or negative, supportive or toxic, that can influence outcomes. Steelmen Online does not exist in a vacuum.4 points
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4 points
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You don't. But some people act like they do. I've seen it all over social media. The name calling - the demands that he gets out of our club. Completely pathetic in my view. I actually don't know why anyone would come to this club given the abuse thats dished out to managers when some fans think it's time for the manager to go. I'm not talking about the booing. I'm talking about the name calling on social media - I get why he doesn't look at it4 points
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I don't boo managers or players. Never have. Never will. If people want Kettlewell out fair enough. I just hope the next manager lives up to expectations. I know plenty of Motherwell fans who don't want Kettlewell out - my issue is that we're supposed to think the entire support hate him based on yesterday? I don't. It's all a tad polarised on here at the moment and if you say you support Kettlewell you get laughed at and told you're an idiot by people who weren't even born when you started going to games. Or that you somehow are responsible for Motherwell not performing because you don't have high enough expectations for your team (I really have seen it all when I saw a post like that). People who like Kettlewell are responsible for Motherwells current performance I really hope that in two years time when he's gone - if we are still struggling that some people might revisit their opinions of him - doubt it though4 points
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I think you are confusing the entire Motherwell Support for this place. If we win tomorrow Im pretty sure the entire 1700 Motherwell fans or whatever the number is will go mental and appreciate the players for keeping a dream alive.4 points