dennyc

Udinese media saying Miller was in Rome for his medical at 8.50 this morning.....with a nice wee photo. Also states he signed last night and all paperwork completed, They also say they thought they had lost out to Bologna who had a bid accepted, But Udinese went back to Motherwell and upped their offer to Euros5.5m which was accepted. Udinese, Miller arrived at Villa Stuart to undergo medical examinations The Scottish midfielder has arrived in Rome for medical examinations: the official announcement of the Friulian club will follow © photo by Credits: Gianluca Di Marzio [ Previous ] Weather UDINE Classifica After signing yesterday, Lennon Miller arrived at Villa Stuart to undergo medical examinations that will lead him to become a new Udinese player. Once finished, we will only have to wait for the official announcement of the Friulian club, which reinforces its midfield department with a graft for the present and the future.

I agree the bulk of the funds should be directed towards infrastructure and youth development. That’s our future. But I hope there can be a balance. A portion must be spent on an attempt to improve the quality on the pitch. That’s the bit the fans see each week and which has raised our spirits (most of us anyway 😂) of late. We have seen positive signs since JBA came in and with his signings we have evidence he can source players who will improve us and who will cope with his preferred way of playing. I honestly believe he will already have identified players to improve those areas we all know need addressing. And I suspect we will see evidence of that very soon. in recent seasons we have been mostly limited to free transfers, often taking a punt on players recovering from serious injury, and loan players. Ap Stam being the obvious exception of course and in truth the jury is still out as far as he is concerned. But that was a big spend on one player. A greater risk. I believe bringing in around four starters totalling £500k/600k in total could really provide the uplift in quality the squad needs to progress. That leaves over £3.5m for projects and the like. The Miller fee is a massive sum to a Club such as ours but it is a pittance to Udinese so hopefully the bulk, if not all, will be received up front. If we are honest we must also accept that none of our youngsters are currently ready to play a meaningful role in the first team. And taking into account the number of players that have departed from last season’s squad the monthly wage bill should not put pressure on our finances even if we strengthen. If we really trust and support our Manager then he should be given the support and encouragement to continue our progress. How often to we get this opportunity and have a Manager who we would trust to spend wisely? .

I live in hope that a portion of the Miller money will enable us to raise the quality of player we are able to recruit The departure of those players you listed may cover a large portion of the higher wages. Those wages you mention are a monthly/annual saving, not an up front bonus enabling us to make meaningful bids for players currently under contract elsewhere. For years we have replaced like for like (at best),mostly by way of loans or free transfers. For that reason the quality on view has reduced season on season. We should soon be in the position to improve the quality on show and I suspect JBA has a few decent players in mind who will suit the style he has introduced. Add five quality starters and I think we will be amazed at how good a team we can put out. The small fees he has been allowed to pay out so far suggest he can unearth some quality players. I'm not suggesting huge amounts but we should be able to compete in a higher market than of late. For the benefit of the team and us fans. So I think we are waiting on the Miller sale being concluded before making serious moves..

Have you ever been on away European trip?

It was the same for us last season with Aberdeen. Digital for home fans and paper to be collected at FP for away fans. For the second visit MFC were persuaded to hand out pre purchased tickets at the game for those that could not get to FP. Common sense came through. No reason they could not do the same on Saturday if the willing is there. Also Tynecastle last season our postal tickets did not arrive in time so relying on the mail is risky. In fairness Hearts issued duplicates on the day after Motherwell contacted them.

Celtic will be Celtic and finish top. I think Hearts and Hibs will both be much better than last season. Possibly strong enough to finish ahead of a currently poor Rangers side. Aberdeen for me are the one that is hard to gauge. Terrible first half yesterday but by the end of the day matched Hearts in all but the most important stat. Barring a collapse by any of them, those five should finish ahead of us. When injuries and suspensions kick in squad depth and finance play a huge part. So 6th for us if we improve the areas discussed and finish ahead of St Mirren. I don’t see much between them and us. United seem to be in transition so possibly bottom six. Not so sure about writing of Falkirk under McGlynn, if they can get their defence tightened up. For me Dundee for certain and hopefully Killie are trailing. I’ll reserve judgement on the new Livi for now. Martindale knows what he is doing so I suspect they might be better than last time up. That’s the sensible forecast. But that wee voice tells me fourth or even third is achievable. It’s the hope that kills you.

Thanks for clarifying the no age limit for Solidarity. That's the bit I was not so sure about. That quote you posted confirms the situation. Transfers have to be Cross Border transfer though. So Derby to Chelsea or Napoli to Juventus down the line would not benefit us. Unless the Home Association involved has adopted the Solidarity Scheme developed by UEFA etc. Generally the two aspects of the compensation scheme help. Often more so for the initial training fee up front. But the 5% Solidarity payment thereafter can really amount to very little unless the transfer fee runs into tens of million. Especially if the player was not with his parent Club from age 12 to age 21. MJ was only with us from 12 to 19 so we won't even get the full 5%. I think that % should be upped to reflect the higher add on % that is common when transfer terms are agreed by the clubs involved. But UEFA etc refuse to consider increasing it....or the training fee calculation.....as they feel to do so might hinder the transfer of young players.

Agree, the lager is already well watered down.....allegedly.

Perhaps I am wrong but I thought he just left with no deal agreed between the Clubs. Same as Cadden years ago. Contract expired. That’s how the media reported it at the time anyway. Correct me if you find out differently. So we would only have gotten Training Compensation up front which was quoted as between £250k or £300k depending upon which report you believe. And then we would be due an additional Solidarity Fee from any subsequent cross border transfer up to (I think) age 23. Based on years developed from ages 12 to 21. So we get rewarded for developing him for only 7 years as he left us age 19. The calculation of our ‘windfall’ using my limited arithmetic. Based on £1.4m . 7/9 of 5% of £1.4m. So a miserly £55k. 5% is the amount automatically deducted from the transfer fee for sharing amongst the Clubs that develop a player. Derby might be more money and a route to bigger things in England. But sadly even if he then moved for gazillions to Chelsea, we would be due nothing as that transfer would not be cross border. Better for us if SG tell Derby to bugger off and then sell him to an Italian Club for the £3m they want. (£120k for the good guys). After a year he can then get that huge transfer to Chelsea or Liverpool. We then get rewarded twice. Wishful thinking I know! I hope that all makes sense.

I sit in the POD and he gets abuse from a guy who sits just in front of the Director's Box area. Constant. Thankfully that seat was empty yesterday. Shame he missed SOD's contribution though. In truth it's at away games that I have heard the most abuse. And it is a minority, a noisy minority though. Ross County last game of the seoson as an example. It's not just at Fir Park that he heads straight up the tunnel. Stenhousemuir match he did the same. Wasn't at NDP for the Clyde game as on holiday but comments on SOL match thread about the abuse he got that day. Folk can deny it all they like, but it happens. Why on earth do some fans boo him before he kicks a ball? Maybe says more about them than it does about the player. I just feel it is a shame he misses the on pitch celebrations on days like yesterday. His choice I guess, but a shame if abuse is the reason he heads off so quickly. Maybe he just wants to be first in the shower. Rant over.

Just a shame he feels the need to head to the dressing room as quickly as possible once the final whistle goes. Understandable given the abuse he gets from some arseholes in our support. Guy might be past his best and no longer a first choice, injuries having taken their toll. . Always gives his best...whether good or bad...and happy to settle for whatever role our Manager asks him to play. Yesterday showed he can contribute when given the chance.

I think Celtic are of the opinion we should pay them to take him off our hands. 😄

Agree with much of this but I thought it was also the case that later on, when we tried a few times to switch the play with long balls fired out wide to Longelo, it caused Rangers all sorts of confusion. Rangers had over committed players to press our midfield/defence when suddenly we were in behind them and they were in trouble.. JBA actually applauded one of those passes from SOD. Not so much the one that went into touch. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating long ball tactics or missing out midfield. But mixing it up with the odd long pass sows seeds of doubt in our opponents and makes us less predictable. Then again you have to have centre backs that are capable or confident enough to attempt such passes.

And Hibs got slated by some in our media for holding out for a decent price and laughing off a low Celtic offer. Pretty confident Miller will do the right thing for himself so good luck to him. But at the end of the day it is the fee and add-ons that matter most to MFC. As an aside, I was at ER last night and was very impressed by Midtyjlland. Play a similar style to how we are being asked to play.....with the odd long ball to wide players thrown in. Full backs certainly asked to cover a lot of ground. Lots of possession in midfield and defence. Their players looked comfortable on the ball with no signs of panic when pressed as playing out. Very patient. At times moved the ball very quickly. Guessing that is the way teams play in Denmark. Maybe JBA will unearth some oven ready CBs from his homeland.. Only failing was the lack of goals their domination on the ball produced. But they did score six in their previous League game so maybe Hibs got lucky. Just short of 20k turned up....of which 1000 away fans. If we can find or develop players to play that style then I'm on board. Spoke to a couple of their fans who said it took a good while for them to adapt to that style of play and they had a few horror shows on the way. Hibs actually did well without looking like winning. Certainly far better than they were at the start of last season. Strong midfield and in central defence. Cadden was Cadden. Good pushing forward, not so good defensively. early days but I was impressed by them. Cue Dundee win this weekend.

You could be right on the same country moves. Each country can apply their own thinking as not bound by International criteria as set out. Our lot are all very secretive about how they arrive at a figure and I believe Accies said they were warned not to reveal any details. All they could do was register how unhappy they were. Just shows the nonsense of not adopting the rules that apply cross border. That would be much more open and consistent. No wonder Clubs often work out a deal to avoid a Tribunal up here.

I found a report on training Compensation and the Solidarity Scheme. States that Uefa and individual Associations decided upon the amount it took to train a player on an annual basis and came up with a payment table. Then they took into account the level of each team and adjusted the fee based on that. I did not find anything about wages offered by either club as being a factor in the calculation. Not saying that was not added later but I cannot confirm. I tried to copy the calculation section and post it here but every time I tried it was blacked out. Not sure why. And I could not figure out a way to post it. I searched ' How is training compensation calculated by Uefa' in Google and then clicked on the top result ' E A Sports Law' . If interested, stick with it for a few paragraphs and you'll find the bit I am quoting from. For info, the Yanks were late in joining the scheme and initially placed their Clubs in the lowest possible grading (4).... as a way to minimise payments. Cadden was the first real test of their stance. In time they were forced to elevate the grading of the US teams to ensure fairness..

Again an issue that needs addressed. The Training Compensation that applies when a young player leaves his parent club (eg. Max Johnston to Graz) is based on some magic calculation linked to ages 12 to 21. A set fee per year developed. Like you I don't think that has kept pace with the market. The Solidarity Compensation which relates to moves thereafter (eg. if MJ joined Juventus tomorrow) is % based so will increase with the market. 5% of the full transfer fee is hived off and shared to those that developed a player from age 12 to 21. Pro rata. . It certainly amounts to very little if MJ moves for £3m. Perhaps £125k only. We would be due around 7 years worth of the 5%. So maybe that % needs to be upped to 10 or 20% in line with commonly agreed add ons? Seems reasonable Also the fact that both schemes apply to cross border moves only is a joke. For transfers within the same Country I think UEFA wanted to leave the local Association to deal with it. Maybe because of volumes or maybe to not stand on the home Authoritie's toes. Scotland could just adopt the same schemes if they wanted but that would require common sense. Accies felt they were shortchanged with the outcome of the Ferguson Tribunal.

I agree 100%. He looks uncomfortable playing out with too many passes playing our midfielders into trouble or being intercepted. His punts upfield have been closer to me than our strikers. He also seems to think whatever goalie we play has the ball skills of Leo Messi. He did fine for St J playing as an out and out stopper CB but that limited role does not suit our brave new world. He needs to show he can adapt or I think JBA will look elsewhere. Time is running out for him to prove himself. Saturday would be a good start.

Yes please. And it suggests JBA has replacements in mind. Quite honestly I think we don't have any central defenders ....by trade or makeshift...that merit a first team place. So I'm hoping we see more than one depart. To be replaced by at least two that are comfortable playing out as the Manager expects. Might save me a few 'moments'.

Just to add to the complications and confusion. It really is a minefield. Clubs who are losing a youngster (despite offering a new contract) very often do a deal with the new Club that bypasses the compensation rules that apply to cross border only movement. Like I believe we did with McKinstry to Leeds. Maybe building in a larger up front fee with a lower sell on %. Or the other way round. That may suit both Clubs depending upon their financial situation at the time. For internal transfers the compensation rules usually do not apply. Like with Hastie to Rangers. (Individual Associations can adopt the International rules if they like, but Scotland don’t). So we did a deal with Rangers rather than go to a dodgy tribunal whose decision is final and a one off payment. Sometimes with no add on %. So you can get screwed. I understand we got £350k for Hastie plus decent add on had he moved on for big money. A Tribunal might not have been so generous. We will never know. Best recent example of a tribunal outcome is Lewis Ferguson to Aberdeen. Accies got £250k and a small add on %, the level of which was not disclosed. No appeal allowed despite Accies going public that they felt hard done to. Compare that to our Hastie deal. Aberdeen certainly scored when he moved to Italy. Accies may have still been due further training compensation if Ferguson had then left Italy before a certain age….. but I’m not 100% sure on that. It is debatable and not specifically covered in the rules I read. I think Motherwell have actually done pretty well over the years, often successfully negotiating with the new Club. Bailey Rice a recent example. Certainly for youngsters not fully established in our first team. We were unable to negotiate a better deal for MJ though as Graz were happy to go with the set compensation arrangements. No discussion. The ball was in their court as Max had decided to move on. No bad feeling from me on that one as he did what he thought best for himself. And he had only joined us age 12 and appeared in under 20 games for our first team. So very different from Miller. We also lost out initially on Cadden as the US were not in the International arrangement. And when they signed up under pressure from the ruling bodies, they were regarded as a lower tier country where lower amounts were due. History wise. After the Bosman ruling that players could just leave at Contract end with no compensation due (in line with other occupations) Clubs from several countries approached UEFA and FIFA asking them to set up a scheme that rewarded Clubs for developing youngsters. Until they came up with the current scheme Clubs were due nothing. That was seen as a barrier to youth development. So why bother developing kids? The present arrangement is something that helps. Covers cross border only though which is a flaw in the system imo. Like many countries, Scotland opted to go to a tribunal for internal transfers if Clubs do not agree a deal. At least that recognises the need for some reward for youth development I guess. But it is not perfect. That’s my take on things anyway. Others may know differently. Told you it was a nightmare.😀

My understanding is that, to qualify for compensation, a contract has got to have been offered by the 'losing' club. Otherwise that Club is seen to be just releasing a player at contract end. Like happens to so many younger players. Otherwise every player that is let go under a certain age would entitle clubs to compensation. Basically to qualify for compensation you have to demonstrate that you wanted to keep a player. For that reason a contract offer has to be made before a player's existing contract expires. If you like you can check it all out by doing a search along the lines of ' Training and Solidarity Compensation payments in football'. Two different schemes. Details age requirements, cross border requirements and contract basis amongst lots of other detail . Pages of it though so a glass of wine (white) might help! Happy reading.

For Motherwell to have received compensation .....£350k.....from Sturm Graz, Johnston had to have rejected an offer from Motherwell before his contract expired. Otherwise no compensation due. Thems the rules. So he had a choice and opted to turn down our offer. The only real question is whether Motherwell could have persuaded him to extend earlier, perhaps when he returned from Cove? But lets be honest. He did ok on loan at QOS and Cove but it was only when he featured regularly in our first team that his performances took off. By then any team in Europe with a decent scouting system would be keeping an eye on him given his media coverage in Scotland as a possible young player of the year.. And no doubt quietly sounding out his Agent/Dad. IMHO, the Club could have done little more and I believe he had already made his mind up to go overseas well before his contract expired. If I recall correctly nobody was surprised that he moved to Austria. Rumours were rife well before he left. As WeeYin says, how on earth do you make a any player sign a new contract if they don't want to? And if you convince them to sign by offering daft money/length of contract then you could be stuck with someone who fails to make the grade or regresses. We have been caught out that way before and possibly even now. It's certainly an issue that Clubs with a limited budget have to manage. Also, in comparison to Johnston, Miller spent much more of his early years at Motherwell. Johnstone (I think) only joined us at age 12 and had no previous links to us. So perhaps LM felt a greater loyalty to us, received different advice from his father and so found it easier to extend.

The Forest/Napoli/Bologna transfer part seems genuine and now widely reported that Forest have upped their bid to Bologna for Ndoye. A replacement for Elanga who left for Newcastle.. Miller might be a fabricated add-on but the more the Forest thing pans out the more it lends authenticity to the story. We will find out soon I guess.

So be it. The rumour has spread to Italy though as I read it on an Italian rumours page. Time will tell.

Might not work out of course but the rumour in Italy is that the fee is £5m and that Lewis Ferguson highly recommended LM to Bologna. Talks are ongoing re the transfer of a winger called Ndoye from Bologna to Nottingham Forest for around £35m. The player involved wants to go to England and has agreed terms, but Napoli are also after him although offering less than Forest. Talk is that Bologna are using the two clubs interest to push up the price. Should be resolved soon, maybe even by tomorrow. Great move for LM and Motherwell if it comes off.