dennyc

And in that 'over a year', how much time did Stama miss through injury? He has not had a full year on the pitch. And on top of that the entire team is learning a new system under a new Manager with numerous new players being introduced.. My point re Bowman was that he played his full part in the team scoring. As has and is Stama. Although I accept Stama is looked upon by us fans as the main striker. But is he? Maybe Maswanhise is looked upon as the main goal threat. Could Stama do better? Of course he could. So could everybody else in the team.

Looked to me like he was heavily involved in both goals v Killie. He was in the right position then so an obvious improvement and a decent contribution. Given his price tag he certainly needs to score more. But if others are scoring off his work then that helps. Only Hearts have scored more league goals than us up to now. I think he deserves a bit longer before he is deemed a failure. We have had other strikers who were not prolific goal scorers but contributed. Bowman springs to mind. He had a poor goals return. The rest of the team made up for his lack of goals and so far that is what we are seeing with Stamatelopoulos. But could he do better? Yes.

Had a wee search and found this posted in reply to the same question re Loans. Ties in with what I understood to be the situation. The Partnership agreement with Stenny and Cowdenbeath regarding young Scottish players falls outside the normal Loan terms. Quote "Clubs can now only make loan deals during the two transfer windows between July/August and January and players can only be brought into clubs on either half season or full season loans. The changes mean that players can no longer be brought into clubs outside of the transfer windows on short-term deals with many clubs often bringing in players on a month`s loan during the season. The changes also mean that clubs cannot recall a player until the transfer window reopens, the only exception to this is with goalkeepers. Parent clubs can recall a goalkeeper with just 24-hours notice if they do not have two fit goalkeepers at their club. Clubs can still recall players to feature for their development squad during the loan period." So on that basis, Wilson returning before January is a non starter. I guess new rules were introduced to stop clubs abusing the system by swapping players back and forward, sometimes for a month or less at a time.

A goalkeeper under an emergency situation. Stricter rules for outfield players. My understanding anyway

I think a return clause can be in any loan deal but that any return can only be made in a transfer window. So January is the earliest Wilson could be recalled. There can be an exemption for goalkeepers if SPFL authorise emergency cover. But that does not apply to outfield players. Scottish youngsters can now move back and forward as long as they are loaned to a lower league Club under the new Partnership scheme. Raith are not our 'partners' so that rules out that possibility.

Since you mention money I came across some figures when I was trying to find out exactly what European success for us and others meant financially. Also worth noting that Uefa altered things to ensure Clubs do not incur a loss as I believe we did visiting Russia. Will not change folks view but it is a factor. Others may know differently but here is what I found. Our embarrassing exit to Sligo was horrific but we received £434k from Uefa for our 'efforts'. Maybe that helped to ease the pain, at Board level anyway. Reaching the Conference League Group stage guaranteed Hearts £2.6m before they kicked a ball. Surely reaching that stage is a target we should aspire to? The season Celtic had a decent run in the Champions League our payment as a result of their success totalled £1.6m. Almost 25% of our total Turnover that year. It used to be that the rewards for Scottish teams' success were shared with lower league Clubs who supported qualifying youth set ups. But now all the cash is shared between only those top division teams who meet the youth criteria. Like us. I understand some top tier clubs don't qualify. All the more for us! The dilemma for me is that enjoyable as it was watching Celtic and Rangers crash and burn in the qualifying round, it cost us dearly. Hibs, Hearts and Utd as well but to a lesser extent. I accept that success for those Clubs in Europe adds to their Bank Account but the impact on us is massive. Given the financial gap that will always exist, irrespective of who progresses in Europe, I believe Motherwell are in a more competitive position if all Scottish clubs progress as far as possible, or even better if we are one of those clubs.

Contracted with Celtic until 2027 and reportedly on £8k a week. Doubt we would match that and the player would be crazy to give up a years salary at that level to join us permanently at the end of this season. I'm guessing Celtic hoping he does well with us this season so that they can sell him elsewhere for decent money at season end. They are keen to move him on but nobody is willing to meet the fee demanded. Scared Mechelen off.....twice. Yet another example of Celtic signing players on daft wages and then finding they cannot hold down a first team place or be moved on. Trusty on £30k pw, Engels 15k, Yang £10k as other out of favour players with years to run on contracts. Hilarious how poor their transfer dealings have been. Everyone is not a Virgil VD it appears. I would rather we looked elsewhere for a player on a permanent basis but it could be we are struggling to secure anyone Askou regards as suitable. Still time but this is might be the only upgrade we can achieve. I hope not, but I think Welsh might improve us. On that basis I can live with him joining us.

Just play our own game, support our team loudly and win the game playing the football we have seen all season. That will be enough of a statement to Kettlewell. No need to fire their team and supporters up by having a go at him.

Beat me to it😀. Agree fully.

I don’t think you are warped at all and I get where you are coming from. In many ways I agree. Any time those clubs you mention…especially Celtic and Rangers… get beaten domestically it brightens up my day. My take on Europe is different though. For various reasons I prefer the Scottish clubs to progress… but if any are to fall out early I would preferred it to be either OF. It is Scotland after all. My logic… flawed or otherwise. 1. The better they do the more Motherwell FC are rewarded financially by Uefa. And we are talking a lot of money here. It helps keep us alive and assists growth and investment. 2. I appreciate progress will provide Millions to those clubs. But the huge financial gap will exist regardless of whether they advance in Europe or not. As an example Celtic and Hearts could miss out on Europe entirely for a decade and they would still blow us out the water financially. 3. If the co efficient improves we have a better chance of qualifying and having a pop at the millions available, even for relative failure. Gone are the days of making a loss because you visit Russia and lose out first up. Guarantees are now in place to avoid wee Clubs like us being out of pocket. It also helps the National side…. Clarke aside. And I enjoy my European trips! 4. Qualifying for Europe means something. Not as good as a cup win of course, but it is a win. A success. Just like achieving top six. It is a feel good experience when it happens. Something for fans to celebrate and boast about. And it is refreshing seeing ‘different’ clubs visiting FP. Even a pre season v Hertha was a welcome change. 5. The financial adjustment that needs sorted is the League/TV payout. But Aberdeen scuppered any possibility of fairness. Greed talks and the OF will never support change. Regardless of the fact that such change might just provide Celtic with the domestic challenge they say they need to compete in Europe. The flip side is how enjoyable it is seeing Rangers and Celtic outclassed by average teams from countries that most folk could not find on a map. The upheaval we have seen in their fan base this week is a delight. And I say that having good friends who are ST holders of each of them. My view. It helps Motherwell if Scottish clubs do well. Although I accept that financially it may strengthen our rivals.

We can only hope. The ban would be worth it. I'll even pay for the statue.

He is leaving a Club that has crashed out of the Champions League and has had a slowish start to the League. And their usual rivals have strengthened. Austria is hardly a top European league either. Maybe SG were looking to cash in on Max and we also don't know if any of those Clubs reportedly watching him put in a meaningful offer. Did he have as many options as we think? I tend to think if he had had the option of Italy etc then that is where he would have gone. Was he missing family and friends? If he does well at Derby it could be a stepping stone to the Premier League which may be how he sees it. Whatever, he and his advisors have made good decisions career wise so far. Joining us at about age 12, moving on from us after a good half season despite then having to sit on the bench for a long spell. Bank balance boosted. Now with around 50 games for SG he is cashing in again. Still young so plenty of years to move up if he performs. There is a pattern there. In truth I am not so convinced by Max Johnstone as I am by the likes of Lennon Miller, or even Bowie at Hibs. Played very few games for us.....although he did well and earned lots of praise... after having done ok and no more whilst out on Loan. I wish him well but I think he still has a bit to prove. Cannot blame him for looking after the financial side at this stage in his career.

Do well and the PL beckons pretty soon. And still so young. Might turn out to be a clever move as he should be a starter at Derby which may well not have been the case if he had opted for the likes of Italy. Champions League wise I guess he will not miss being humped every game. Whatever happens he should be sorted financially for life. Good luck to him. The other thing is we don't really know who wanted him enough to meet SG price. So maybe not the options we all think.

Even if Motherwell did not agree a deal with Sturm Graz we are due something if he switches countries. Because we coached him from 12 to 19. Applies to every cross border move he makes from now on regardless of age. It does not add up to much though. Although it would do me! 5% of transfer fee is deducted and split between those parent clubs that coached a player age 12 to age 21. So for £2m.... (£1.4m and £1.6m turned down previously but guess now SG out of Champions League they are needing to sell).....seven ninths (years coached) of £100k (5%) = just under £78k. However if that 15% is accurate as having been agreed then if fee is £2m we are due £300k. Everything I read at the time said MJ left us as out of contract with no deal agreed. But Motherwell are good at keeping things confidential so fingers crossed.

The Sun is almost as disgusting. No approach to Celtic for a comment about the conduct of their fans and the damage and injury caused. How about, as now found guilty will they be banned from buying tickets for future Celtic games home and away? Hopefully the Courts do that at sentencing but Celtic should lead the way. But the rag still manages to fit in a report of their heroes victory along with a photo of O'Riley celebrating his winner.

Their other signings are either starting or on the bench. Hopefully he gets sorted soon. Possibly like us their Govt has to issue a waiver given the Brexit shambles?

When Willie Irvine scored to deny Hearts promotion as we celebrated ours almost as much as their failure I could not have cared less whether I was standing or sitting. I do think there was a better atmosphere at games though before all seating became the norm for us big clubs. But I don’t miss going home soaking wet and freezing after a drab December night in Paisley. Or scaling the heights as was at Tannadice and Easter Road. No doubt the grounds are safer and more fan friendly nowadays. Oh, and toilets with no roof ring a bell. An age thing of course but I am absolutely knackered after a Scotland match as you generally have to stand for the whole match if you want to see the game. At least in the areas I have been. That wee plastic seat thing is only for use at half time. That seems to be the rule anyway.

McAllister did well on his short run out today. Delighted for him. So hopeful. But to come in right away and impact games is asking a lot. Luca Ross. I'm not so sure. Given the time he has been around the first team squad and the experience gained whilst on loan I would have hoped he would be further ahead than he seems to be. In truth I was surprised we extended his contract. I actually thought he might move on after his loan spell was over. I know he is still only 18 but I think he is a wee bit lightweight. Connolly was another I thought might move on given he is a lot older and has not really featured as a first team player. Maybe there are less opportunities for goalies to impress. And we were discussing youngsters able to take the step up right now and impact games being sidelined by Loanees. I don't see any that are ready. Next season possibly after building up more game time and experience over the course of this season. But not now. But hey, I'm not a coach and I'm probably being a bit harsh. I wish them all well but I don't think any of the youngsters I have seen this season or last are first team ready. It's a tough, physical League. I felt differently when I first saw Miller and Turnbull although I accept that is a high bar. But , for me, even below that level the likes of Scott, Campbell and Hastie had more about them. I had high hopes for Sam Campbell but sadly his knee injury did for him. I really wish Scotland had something like an under 21 League which I believe was critical in the development of so many players over the years. And the matches were a good watch. I feel for kids who reach the age of 17/18 and often have nowhere to go if they cannot step up to the first team squad. Only very few can be loaned out. Late developers have little chance and many youngsters just disappear from the game. It's a harsh world. Cancelling the Reserve League also badly affected youngsters looking to make their way in the game. At least we have the Challenge Cup I guess but games are limited. Ross, McAllister etc playing in a reserve league with a mix of seasoned pros and other youngsters would better prepare them for the step up. But finances dictate as always. Only my view of course. Many will disagree and hopefully I am proved totally wrong. I'd be delighted if that proves to be the case and Luca Ross and Zander McAllister turn out to be the next Turnbull and Miller. You can say ' I told you so' if that happens.

Does it matter if it benefits us? Or does the fact it is one of the OF override everything? Because that is the way it reads on here.

I think we would all prefer that. Except that currently we do not have one young player that is good enough to step up. And no-one of the quality that Rice showed before his move to Ibrox. Scottish internationalist alongside Miller. And Captain I think. Despite his lack of first team games he has performed well at Rangers. In hindsight maybe he should have stayed with us though. And like Miller waited a few years before cashing in, As soon as we saw Miller and Turnbull given a first team outing it was obvious they were a class above. Can you say that about any of the young players we have seen since? Youth development will continue in the background irrespective of whether we bring in loan players or not. The Miller fee will help in that respect but it will take time. Maybe the extra funding will enable us to poach quality from other Academies which should speed up the process and provide faster results. I hope so. The only down side with Rice would be him having to sit out any game against Rangers. He is out of contract in 2026 and if we got the opportunity to sign him outright…now or then… I think we would crazy to pass up on the opportunity. Of course some fans will never get over the fact he opted to move to Rangers and would be on his back from day one. Such is life in Scotland where even revealing their backing for either of the OF brings out the worst in fans of their parent club. We are no exception. Bottom line. Any signing that improves the side is a good signing. Loan or not.

What strikes me is that Forest did their research as well and saw us as a Club that has a track record for developing players supported by Management team that would be good for their player. Suggests he was not just going to be loaned out anywhere to reduce numbers. That maybe says something about our profile down south.

All goalkeepers make mistakes that prove costly. I think Woods suffered in that his errors seemed to come when the pressure was on in high profile games which we then went on to lose. So they stick in our mind. Not our best ever keeper by a long way but far from our worst. Some others that have been mentioned had no right calling themselves goalkeepers. It’s a thankless task though. Was at Easter Road last night and the Hibs goalie let in two he should have saved…one an absolute howler… so looked to have sold the tie. Nowhere to hide and fans screaming for him to be subbed. Second half and in extra time he kept Hibs in it with three or four tremendous saves when they were being overrun. Left the pitch a hero. Had they lost he would have been slaughtered and possibly dropped.

Certainly failed to score from a limited number of games on loan from Forest. ...only 400 minutes in total from what I can find. At first glance uninspiring. Prior to that he averaged almost a goal a game at youth level.... 75 appearances 35 goals plus 9 assists. Not as impressive stats as Biereth admittedly and his career does seems to have slowed down since he signed his first pro contract. That happens to many 17 year olds though and only an exceptional talent would walk straight in to any first team.. He must have something if Forest gave him a longer term contract at age 17. Maybe worth a look but probably not an immediate solution up front for us. Said the same about Biereth though, and he proved me wrong. Probably not costing that much in wages so that's a plus. If it happens that is.

Not a team of the best players, but a team representing those players I loved watching. Randolph Nijholt Martin Forbes Wark McAllister O'Neil Cooper Pettigrew Higdon Coyne Honourable mention to Billy Campbell, Brian Heron, Dougie Arnott, Phil O'Donnell, Keith MacRae, Bobby Russell, Vic Davidson, Jackie McInally, Martin Corrigan and so many more. I guess I could easily pick three teams of players I have had the privilege of watching over the years. I'm now off to work on a team that includes 11 players I wish I had not had to suffer during those same years. Might even include a Manager. A recent one.

What might help him settle is that Udinese are close to signing another Scot. Ross McCrorie. But I'm pretty sure Lennon will settle soon enough. Udinese have also signed other players for larger fees in the past few weeks so that might also ease any fan expectations.