Ya Bezzer!

You are stretching a bit to turn some of these into positives. Right now any scenario where Ross County, St. Mirren or both pick up points is bad for us since we don't look like picking any up.

We don't have enough professional teams to have an 18 team league. It's just about possible for the 'Premier' tier but a team that got relegated to the second tier would probably have to go part time because the 'big' teams in the lower league would be the likes of Cowdenbeath and Alloa, it would more or less all be sub 1,000 attendance level teams. Taking a look at it outwith the Top 18 teams in Scotland at present there are only 5 teams with average attendances of over 1,000 - Alloa, Livingston, Dunfermline, Morton and Ayr Utd and only two of them are significantly over the 1,000 mark - Dunfermline and Livingston. That's just not enough to support professional level football in the second tier.

I accept everything you say here but there is also other factors that must be taken into consideration. First of all McCall has achieved these records in an all time low standard top flight. The records still stand of course but the quality of team we have been playing over the last few years has been very low and when you consider that last season we huffed and puffed to quite a few undeserved victories and had various colossal slices of luck in the last 3 or 4 matches of the season to achieve second it doesn't make it look quite so good. The city clubs over the last few years have been a complete shambles, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, all flirting with disaster. Even the 'improved' Aberdeen and Dundee Utd of last season and this season have been very inconsistent. Ask yourself what great, or even good, sides did we beat to achieve those positions in the league and that answer was none. McCall inherited a pretty good team that really picked its self and when we have been at our best I think the influence of McCall has actually been minimal. Any Motherwell fan could have picked the team certainly two seasons ago when we played our best football and went through the season with few injuries. When McCall has actually had decisions to make things haven't quite gone as well. He may have man management skills but it's a lot easier to man management when the team is winning and everyone is happy. Recently he's come across as quite tetchy and although its not confirmed it looks as if he has lost some of the players. I'm sure he gives 100% every day but I'm more concerned about ability over effort. At the end of the day his record is there for all to be seen but I feel like things have gone quite stale this season and a change is required anyway, even if we get out of the relegation mire. Not many managers are at clubs for 5 seasons these days and I think modern football demands a turnaround so that fresh ideas and contacts can come into a club. In the current crisis I think McCall's record should give him a little bit more time to turn things around although looking at the performances of the team I don't think he will be able to do it. Give him perhaps until December, then I'm afraid the consequences of relegation overshadow McCall's past achievements and he will have to go. Even if we do climb the league I think McCall and the club should part company at the end of the season. Currently our average home attendance is 4,047. It could be that come the end of the season it's down in the 3,000 thousands if performances don't pick up. Economics will play a bit part in this. If we lose against Dundee Utd and Celtic the home attendances could collapse at a time when the club desperately needs money.

He's 28 and we're lucky if we have one player in the squad per season that has sell on value. He's probably a fairly cheap player in wages, he's always put in a shift and can play in a number of positions. I'd play him at right back in front of Ramsden who looks done since he came back from injury and I'd play him at left back before Angol.

I thought he started reasonably well but he's as bad as the rest of them now. Just shows you what having your confidence mauled every week does to you.

We have been very poor but Aberdeen are going through a bad spell as well. The thing that worries me though is so were Partick and Dundee and they dispossed of us fairly easily. However if we get the first goal I think we'll have a chance. Aberdeen are really no great shakes. If we concede first though I can't see us getting anything but another defeat. I don't think we'll get 'beasted' but I think Aberdeen will be the bookies favourites.

On loan till Feb 2015 Henrik Ojamaa Out of contract summer 2015 Iain Vigurs John Sutton Paul Lawson Lionel Ainsworth Simon Ramsden Stuart Carswell Fraser Kerr Zaine Francis-Angol Gunnar Nielsen Bob McHugh Adam Cummins Josh Law Ross Stewart Out of contract summer 2016 Stephen McManus Keith Lasley Stevie Hammell Craig Reid Dan Twardzik Craig Moore Jack Leitch Not on public record Lee Erwin

Would the manager slate him like that if he was playing through an injury? If so I don't think that's good management.

Wee bit of public criticism of McManus from McCall. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29680578

Cos that is when other teams take their foot off the pedal and start coasting.

Now been to 9 matches home and away this season. Stjarnan (H) D 2-2 St.Mirren (H) W 1-0 Inverness (H) L 0-2 Kilmarnock (A) L 0-2 St.Johnstone (H) L 0-1 Hamilton (A) L 0-0 lost on pens Hamilton (H) L 0-4 Partick (A) L 1-3 Dundee (H) L 1-3 7 defeats in a row for me. Next two matches will be Dundee Utd and Celtic. Fuck.

I keep saying it but the last two good players to come through our youth system - Jamie Murphy and Shaun Hutchinson were Mark McGhee era players. It's just not good enough especially for a club that has to sell to survive.

I don't think us not getting relegation will have much to do with whether McCall wants it on his CV or not.

Ojamaa, Vigurs and Twardzik get pass marks. Kerr did OK when he came on. I'd give the MotM to Ojamaa.

If the alternative is relegation then it's called cutting your losses.

As others have said the repercussions of being relegated are just too severe and right now we look stick ons to finish in the bottom 2. No one can say whether McCall would turn it round eventually but as far as I'm concerned he doesn't have much time left. Remember we have also fallen at the first hurdle against Albion Rovers, Stjarnan and Hamilton Accies in the last three cup ties. I'd give him until the end of the month because the fixture list looks tough for us in the next 6 weeks or so and if we can't get results against Aberdeen or St. Johnstone then what chance do we have against Dundee Utd, Inverness and Celtic? The two home matches against Dundee Utd and Celtic look especially daunting, could it be 6 home defeats in a row? There are bigger problems at the club than McCall and I think that those desperately need to be addressed as well but right now I can't see us turning it round and that means the managers position is under severe threat, or at least should be.

McCall should get to the end of the month. We need at least three points from the next two games, cos it's hard to see us getting anything in the three after that (Dundee Utd, Inverness, Celtic) and we are into December by that stage. Two more games to turn it round, if not then I'm afraid McCall's time is up.

Does anyone know if Dom Thomas is nailed to the bench?

Pumped again. Next five matches are Aberdeen, St. Johnstone and Inverness away and Dundee Utd and Celtic at home. Where are we going to get a point? We are dire. Dead men walking. I'm afraid the end is close for either Stuart McCall or Motherwell FC as a Premier level team.

I'd cheered up a bit about our prospects having not actually seen us for a couple weeks but it looks like we are going to have another depleted line up out today. I agree with Frazzie on the injury situation, when things aren't going well and the heads are down you seem to get more injuries and longer recovery times. Anyway, I feel like I've said this 4 or 5 times already this season but this is a must win game. We can either go on to the same points as Dundee today if we win, or if we lose, go effectively 7 points behind due to the goal difference. Frightening enough but Dundee can't even climb out of the Bottom 6 day, win or no win. Think about that for a while. The league is beginning to spread out and take shape now and we are at the wrong end, I think this match has the potential to be a season shaping match. If we lose today I think our chances of Top 6 are more or less kaput. I'd take the scrappiest, least deserved 1-0 win today right now.

You at the Accies game? I've seen him twice this season and he had one decent match and one poor one.

Maybe Clarkson's best days are behind him but I still think he could have done a job with us and I disagree that Ojamaa was 'far better' than Clarkson. Clarkson scored 56 goals for the club meaning there aren't many players who have scored more goals for Motherwell in the last 40 years or so at the top level. They aren't exactly like for like but Clarkson was a better goalscorer than Ojamaa and after McGhee took over he was very consistent. I think his contribution to Motherwell is often over looked.

Dundee have conceded 9 goals in the last three league matches so if we can't score in this match we might be in trouble this season. We can't really afford to lose this one as they would go 7 points clear more or less with goal difference taken into consideration. On the other hand we could draw level with them with a win. Cliche or not it does seem set up for David Clarkson to sink us.

This. And this. Vigurs was responsible for that goal but he shouldn't have been in that position in the first place. Also, it was an excellent pass from Lawless to set it up, someone I've said over and over again should have never been allowed to leave Fir Park. As for leaving Vigurs out of the midfield, he's the only guy we've got in the midfield that can create something out of nothing so if you want to score even less goals, have even fewer goal scoring chances, even less opportunities to break the opposition down then go ahead lets do that. Vigurs has at least put the ball in the net this season and gone close elsewhere so when the entire team is playing below par why is it that the creative player gets the chop? All these 'solid' players - Carswell, Lawson, Lasley have they been so much better than Vigurs? Don't think so. You can hardly point to a player in a Motherwell shirt that's done anything this season. What we should be doing is playing a modern system of 4-2-3-1 into which Vigurs would fit perfectly while giving us some security in front of the back four.

Not sure I agree with this. We've only conceded 4 goals more this season than after 9 games last season so although we are poorer defensively there isn't a huge difference. Our main problems are not scoring and the morale collapsing when we go a goal down. What we need to start doing is taking the lead in matches. As McCall pointed out yesterday the three times we've taken the lead this season we got a draw and two wins. I think our morale issues stem around the difficulty we have scoring and breaking teams down and when we lose a goal the team just gives up the ghost so we really need to work on scoring. If we are confident of scoring a goal, losing the opening goal isn't as big a problem, as we have shown numerous times over the last couple of seasons. And miracles of miracles we might even get the first goal ourselves.