David

You say that he should have "completed his apprenticeship with us" then moved on, as if it's a given that a club like Leeds would come calling again a few years later? As I said previously, that's not how professional football works. It's not a three or four step program. What if he'd stayed with us and not made the grade? Or run into a similar issue as the one he faced when here on loan? A manager who didn't fancy him and a team that was shit? We've happily cut loose players like Corey O’Donnell, Daniel Hunter, Kian Speirs and Logan Dunachie without a second thought. What's to say McKinstry wouldn't have ended up suffering a similar fate? Nah, when a club like Leeds come calling, you make the move. Any "apprenticeship" he could complete playing in a Motherwell team in the SPFL is no better than working with coaches like Marcelo Bielsa and training alongside the kind of players Leeds had, in the facilities that Leeds train at. Football is a short career. You make the money when you can, because once it's all over and done with, it's the money that will be paying your mortgage or setting you up for the next stage of your life.

The thing is, you don't know if you're going to get that regular game time if you stay, do you? He could have knocked back Leeds, and a manager like Kettlewell comes in and doesn't fancy playing him. What then? It's like when people say that Hastie was wrong to leave for Rangers. Was he? He came back pretty soon afterwards and it was clear that his run of form was temporary. If he'd stayed with us he'd likely not have progressed much beyond what he did when he came back on loan. Truth is, you never know in football. You strike while the iron is hot, and you grab your chance when it comes. Because it's not always guaranteed to come back round in future. There's too many variables to be knocking back good money and the chance to give it a try at a higher level. You stay at Motherwell, get a bad injury and drop out of the game entirely. It could easily happen. So no, he wasn't badly advised. He was advised to sign the contract where he'd earn the most money, and where he'd be given the opportunity to train and learn from players and coaches higher up the food chain. He didn't make the grade, but he had to give it a shot. I'm sure he'll wind up at another club on a similar level to ourselves, and kick on from there. The only difference is he's got experience of living down south, training and playing with coaches and players at a high level, and his bank account likely looks a lot better.

That's very true. I still think we'll see what Kettlewell is really made of this season.

The big difference is that Kyogo and Maeda are better players. My point is, Tierney isn't too lightweight. There's other lightweight players in the league who do just fine. If we're saying he's not good enough, then that's a different discussion. But this idea that Tierney being lightweight is what is holding him back just isn't true. I'm just not all that impressed by who we've brought in, and who we've lost. I also wasn't impressed when he said the following about Danzaki: “Riku, technically, you can understand why he was brought to the club for a particular style of play. That has substantially changed, in terms of formation. Riku would probably indicate he is a number 10. I have not played with a number 10 at times. “I see it a completely different way, so that would probably let you acknowledge why it could be difficult for him at times to get in. ” I'm not necessarily saying Danzaki should have been kept, but the noises from Kettlewell about how he doesn't really accommodate a number 10 type of player is alarming in my opinion. Maybe that's because I grew up watching football where that type of player was considered a real asset to have. Someone who can change a game with a pass or a run. I don't see us having that approach now, and while we did get results the second half of last season, I still wonder how much of that was down to Van Veen and how much was down to Kettlewell. I guess we'll see this season, because I don't see us having anyone close to Van Veen's abilities this season.

Really? I'm sure I read that he was up next May. I doubt it makes much difference mind you, because unless we end up with a different manager next season he won't be playing.

This belief that smaller players are "too lightweight" has surely been recognised as absolute nonsense now that we've spent a few years watching Celtic players under 5'8 and weighing ten stone soaking wet absolutely tearing the leagues big, strong defenders a new arsehole on a weekly basis? It's about getting in the right players, and using a formation that suits them. We do neither. It's working for us just now because we're fresh off a 2nd half of a season with Van Veen playing like Mbappe, but with his goals now gone there's every chance we end up looking like the team we were watching in the latter half of Alexander's run. Devoid of creativity, and full of big lumps who aren't capable of playing football. He won't. He'll be looking to make an impact so he can sign for a new team when his contract with us expires in May of next year.

Personally, I'd be more inclined to give young Ferrie more game time rather than the likes of Obika and/or Wilkinson.

By "marquee signing" you mean another big player from the lower reaches of the English game with a patchy goalscoring record and no real creativity and skill? I don't think it will make much difference. The manager has made it clear we don't really facilitate players like him. Smaller, more mobile creators who operate in a "number 10" type of position.

While we obviously need to trust in Kettlewell to get the squad in place that he wants, and the type of players who can play in his preferred system, I need to admit that it does worry me that we're seemingly chasing a fair chunk of our players who have an element of skill and creativity about them. Who are we left with that could be considered creators of sorts? Spitall and Slattery? And both Wilkinson and Obika are in the "big lump" mould, although I'm sure I saw it said that Wilkinson is good with the ball at his feet despite being 6'3 or whatever. I've not quite seen that element from him to this point but maybe he will come good. I'm happy enough with the no-nonsense aspect in our defence, where it's needed at our level. Casey, Blaney and Butcher will do just fine. O'Donnell has looked decent enough so far down the flank, and McGinn is decent enough in a few positions when needed, while Pape is an unknown quantity at this stage. Midfield concerns me. We currently have Maguire, Spittal, Slattery, Paton and Miller, along with the new lad Davor who is seemingly a defensive midfielder? With Tierney away that's another player gone who could do something creative with the ball, even if he's not had much chance to show it. Same with Danzaki. He didn't really get much time to bed in, but it was clear from the outset he's not a Kettlewell player. Unless we sign a few creative types, where is the creativity coming from in that midfield? And up front, we've got two lumps up top in Wilkinson and Obika. Efford is quick and skillful, but again, he looks like he's on his way out from what I'm hearing? Again, we need to trust Kettlewell after the results he's gotten, but this current squad looks very ordinary and bereft of any kind of creative spark at the moment.

Yet in our last game he was the runaway winner for Man of the Match according to members of this forum.

Here's a question. Do we give Mark Ferrie more of an opportunity this season? Or do we run out and buy yet another gamble from the lower leagues down south in the hope they can score us goals, but at the same time putting more bog-standard roadblocks in the way of a potential young striker from our youth setup? We're always talking about wanting to see the kids given a chance, but it doesn't seem like we're willing to actually do that.

Still very early in the season, and we're at a stage where we've likely not finished our transfer business (incomings or outgoings) so it's not quite the finished team yet. As long as we win these games and avoid disaster, I'm happy enough. There's always potential for slipping up this early, but we seem to be getting the results we need. Onwards we go.

Neither am I, but i'm led to believe that wasn't always the case with us in recent years. Just what I've heard mind you, so just an opinion.

It could also be the case that without a CEO in place, Kettlewell is more involved in proceedings than previous managers would be.

Another one? The lad is only 22 and he has three kids. I'm surprised he has any energy to train!

Oh, absolutely. I agree 100%, and my argument isn't that we should be giving players like Moult another runout at the club. I'm just making the point that those fans who say they think it would be amazing to see him come back and reclaim his status as our top goalscorer etc shouldn't be mocked for that. There's nothing wrong with being what I'd call a football romantic. God knows with the amount of oil money and cynicism in the game these days we could do with more old fashioned romanticism than ever before.

They don't place them on a higher pedestal than the club itself. The players you mentioned are considered by some to be cult heroes. Every club, no matter how big or small, has them. It doesn't mean the fans hold them in higher regard than the club itself. And like it or not, there's always going to be an element of romanticism in football. The idea of someone like Moult leaving, suffering injury woes, only to then return and lead Motherwell to success is something that a lot of fans would love to see happen. And they're always going to believe that club greats have one last run in them. And there's nothing wrong with that. If that makes them "misty eyed fanboys" or "trumpets" in you and a few others eyes, then I think that says more about you than them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the club should sign him. But it's the job of the board and the manager to be the sensible heads in situations like this, it's not on the fans to check their hopes and dreams at the door. If we all approached supporting Motherwell in the manner you seem to, we'd probably all be as dour and depressed as you seem to be.

Well, thankfully we have the likes of you and MJC to keep them in line, eh?

Both Lamie and Bevis have a year left on their deals, so I imagine they'll be here to see them out.

Why you seem to take so much pleasure in belittling and trying to wind up your fellow supporters is baffling. I personally don't think Moult has what it takes at this level now, sadly. But I'd never dream of mocking any Motherwell fan who still holds out hope and would love to see a fairytale ending.

Honestly, some of the patter in this thread is cringeworthy. The very notion that our kit designer and our club should take anything a group of laddies who bang a drum and wave flags in a corner of Parkhead think about our kit into account when making a commercial decision is absolute madness. That these guys actually take up enough space in Motherwell fans heads to even be a factor is mental. Honestly, who cares what they think? Or what they say? All this "we're just giving them a reason..." nonsense? You don't think they already have a million reasons in their deluded minds as to why we're all "secretly" Rangers fans? While the blue version of them in the other half of the city has their own little takes of those same reasons to think we're all "secretly" Celtic fans who hate "the Rangers." Interestingly, I come from a family that rests firmly on the green side of the divide. A fair number of Celtic fans, with absolutely no one making any kind of connection with our strip and anything untoward. Not a single peep from anyone. This is a case of a very small minority on social media making a racket, as is usually the case. It's bollocks, and that Motherwell fans are even giving a shit is astounding.

I assume there's no stream or way to watch this game live from afar?

Players with that pedigree who have been playing consistently the past few years wouldn't be anywhere near Fir Park. Looks like he's had some injury issues since a serious car crash when he was at Crystal Palace, and hasn't really kicked on since. I guess depending how the deal is structured it's a worthwhile gamble. Being as he was released by Morecambe after only being there for a few months I doubt he's come in on big wages. He'll either look really good and get a move in January, or look rubbish and disappear in January. Either way, he's an extra body in the door.

Is that you chose "your guy" for the season already?

It's not "end of story" though, because you're blatantly wrong. But let's leave it there. You clearly aren't going to budge, and I'm not going to tell you that you're correct when you're not.