The Stadium

[Shaka]

Sorry mate but your opinion got a bit fucked by the example that you posted, if that is your preferred design for Motherwell Football Club then that is just shite.

 

You seem to chuck around numbers like you know what you are taking about? Do you? cause it doesn't sound like it.

 

I said a modified version of that, what exactly is so wrong with it like? What is your opinion of the kinda ground we should have?

 

And as for the numbers, look at any stadium website or info site and itll tell you how much the different types of grounds cost, 4 individual stands are cheaper than multi tier or bowl stadiums,its a simple fact! As for Chucking figures around and not knowing what im talking about? I may not be an employee of Barr Stadium design but the internet is a goldmine of info, im not gonna spend time doing a fuck off search but here are a couple of examples to back up my point of view

 

ReidSteel - show stadium designs etc + they reckon corner seats are 2 or 3 times as expensive, other stuff about costs there as well.

 

Cost Model - shows how different designs contribute to costs

[LadywellToi]

Public spending is on hold/getting cut, assume everyone has seen the news in the past 2 years?

 

For us to move we'd need NLC, European money and some tie in with sponsors/business. Think the board would welcome it but only in a few years when the price they would get for the FP site would pick up, Ravesncraig will still be cheap as chips for a while yet.

 

I think if it does go ahead it would have to be justified as a multi-sport venue, possibly with a running track. To make it pay for itself it'd probably need ancillary facilities attached such as a hotel, offices, conference centre and gym possibly. Also NLC has had its fingers burned with Clyde at Broadwood so maybe reluctant.

 

Not in favour of a lego stand affair, think we have plenty of talented architects locally who could design something unique and cost effectively.

[Katie]

Like Special says, there are a lot of cracking stadiums around the 10,000 seater mark in Norway to draw inspiration from. One I particularly like is the Color Line Stadion.

Well out of our price range know......

[Ian-in-Oz]

I like Cardiff City's new stadium. It holds 26,000 so a smaller version of that would do me fine.

[jk2205]

St Mirren Park - Cost £8million

 

B2net Stadium, Chesterfield - Cost £13million

 

Weston Homes Stadium, Colchester - Cost £14million

 

Finnair Stadium, Finland - Cost £16.5million

 

SOR Arena, Norway - Cost £39million

 

 

I think we'd be looking at the 'St Mirren Park' range of stadium. Although for 16.5million quid the Finnair Stadium and its facilities are outstanding. Perhaps we could shave off the pitch-side bars and corporate box sauna's to get the price down.

[Steve Diggle]

Parc Y Scarlets £23 Million.

 

have we ever estimated the costs for redeveloping Fir Park's 2 long stands?

 

I reckon that if we'd all have been putting a tenner a week away into a 'stadium fund' for the amount of time we knew that we've needed to updgrade or move - we'd be about there by now.

 

I don't understand how we haven't had a stadium fund - with fundraising, debentures, pools or summit going for the last 10 yrs.

 

OK we ain't gonna raise the money that the bun eaters did for ibrox but we might have come up with a decent deposit

[dosser1886]

I said a modified version of that, what exactly is so wrong with it like? What is your opinion of the kinda ground we should have?

 

Pretty simple, bowl design, steep stands close to the pitch, around 10k capacity. Plenty of parking. Finnair Stadium would be my ideal and if we build next to the new indoor sports place at Ravenscraig we will end up with access to just about the same facilities that they have in Finland.

 

Appreciate where you get the prices from but can't we think "out of the box" a bit use some intelligent and innovative architecture. Not just make the same mistakes that have been made over and over again.

 

Accept mediocrity and that is exactly what we will get.

[Shaka]

on a smaller budget THIS is what id like

 

Fortuna Stadion

 

 

With a little more cash, THIS would be lovely I reckon

 

Boras Arena

[dosser1886]

on a smaller budget THIS is what id like

 

Fortuna Stadion

 

 

With a little more cash, THIS would be lovely I reckon

 

Boras Arena

 

Like those as well, and possibly quite realistic options. If we were to have 4 stands move them as close to the pitch as possible, box in or overlap the corners.

[Special aka]

I think we'd all like to dream, and it's obvious none of us want a New Love Street style legoset. However, as Shaka has pointed out our dreams cost a lot of money.

 

No one expects the Bernabeu, but I'm sure we want something to be proud of and not mocked like NLS. Something practical, pleasing on the eye and that will contribute to the long term financial stability of our beloved MFC would keep me happy. If that means embracing external partners in a shared campus up the 'Craig or wherever then so beit.

 

I want our sons, grandsons, great grandsons and so on to be able to follwow MFC. Unfortunately I doubt that likely if the Club remains at Fir Park in its current guise.

 

 

Just keep Bill Dickie and Barr Construction well well well well away please.

[Ya Bezzer!]

Ok then,lets stay in a delapidated fossil of a stadium where we have little to no facilities to generate extra cash and are haemorraging money from our tiny turnover every year just to scrape the stadium up to the level of a basic safety certificate.

 

That way we can maybe get down to 2000 supporters when people get fed up paying through the nose to sit in a wet,decaying shitehole.

 

But its ok,we have an emotional attatchment here so its all good!

 

Some people on here live in cloud cukoo land

 

You do know that the reason that Livingston went to the shitters and Kilmarnock might well follow them is because they invested hugely in extra facilities to generate income that never actually materialized and left them with huge debts.

 

People think that if you build, say a hotel or a conference centre or an office complex on to a nice new stadium somehow it just magics money out of thin air. It doesn't, in fact a lot of the time it costs more money than can every be recouped in anything other than small amounts over the very long term and often is just a complete failure and money pit.

 

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is absolutely no precedent in Scottish football for good new stadium design (except maybe Falkirk who redeveloped their existing ground over a long period of time) and almost all clubs that have moved away from their established stadium regret the day they left since the moves have completely failed to regenerate their club - (St. Mirren, Airdrie, Clyde, Hamilton, St. Johnstone, Livingston - all spent long periods in the lower division or are headed that way).

 

Since, with all due respect to the club I love, Motherwell aren't exactly trailblazers in progressive thinking and innovative practice I don't see much evidence for thinking a new stadium and move would be any different for us than any of the above.

 

By all means rebuild parts of Fir Park if it makes financial sense in the long term as regards maintenance costs but as regards a move, well there is a lot of truth to the saying 'better the devil you know'.

[Big Stall]

You do know that the reason that Livingston went to the shitters and Kilmarnock might well follow them is because they invested hugely in extra facilities to generate income that never actually materialized and left them with huge debts.

 

People think that if you build, say a hotel or a conference centre or an office complex on to a nice new stadium somehow it just magics money out of thin air. It doesn't, in fact a lot of the time it costs more money than can every be recouped in anything other than small amounts over the very long term and often is just a complete failure and money pit.

 

Totally with you, but...... if the Ravenscraig masterplan is ever realised and brought to completion with residential, retail and business facilities, a new Fir Park with all the add ons will be in an ideal spot to milk all the benefits under the sun that Rugby Park could never manage.

[Shaka]

Totally with you, but...... if the Ravenscraig masterplan is ever realised and brought to completion with residential, retail and business facilities, a new Fir Park with all the add ons will be in an ideal spot to milk all the benefits under the sun that Rugby Park could never manage.

 

 

Plus, My idea was the likes of a Club Museum,Restaurant,Sports Bar,Dividable Function Suite, all of which generate cash 7 days, not just match days. Office Blocks,Hotels etc are serious expenses and wouldnt really prove cost effective without a serious amount of effort + no little luck. Keep it simple, facilities the fans can use on match days and can re-visit during the week if they wish

[cambo97]

You do know that the reason that Livingston went to the shitters and Kilmarnock might well follow them is because they invested hugely in extra facilities to generate income that never actually materialized and left them with huge debts.

 

People think that if you build, say a hotel or a conference centre or an office complex on to a nice new stadium somehow it just magics money out of thin air. It doesn't, in fact a lot of the time it costs more money than can every be recouped in anything other than small amounts over the very long term and often is just a complete failure and money pit.

 

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is absolutely no precedent in Scottish football for good new stadium design (except maybe Falkirk who redeveloped their existing ground over a long period of time) and almost all clubs that have moved away from their established stadium regret the day they left since the moves have completely failed to regenerate their club - (St. Mirren, Airdrie, Clyde, Hamilton, St. Johnstone, Livingston - all spent long periods in the lower division or are headed that way).

Since, with all due respect to the club I love, Motherwell aren't exactly trailblazers in progressive thinking and innovative practice I don't see much evidence for thinking a new stadium and move would be any different for us than any of the above.

 

By all means rebuild parts of Fir Park if it makes financial sense in the long term as regards maintenance costs but as regards a move, well there is a lot of truth to the saying 'better the devil you know'.

 

Although, while I agree with a lot of what you have said of the teams mentioned.

St Mirren - too early to tell if they regret their move or otherwise

Airdrie, Clyde and Hamilton - models of how not to do it, though Hamilton are probably ahead of where the were at Douglas Park

St Johnstone - another one who are probably ahead of where there were

Livingston - why they are always mentioned in disastrous moves is always a mystery, it was as much trying to do too much too soon, with ideas above their station, which caused their problem. They went from a team pretty much yoyoing from the bottom two divisions to one playing in the top two.

 

You could also add Inverness CT and Stirling to your list of new stadium builders.

 

So really you could argue that Airdrie has been the only major disaster but that was down more to not have a new site (with planning permission) than the actual move.

[Special aka]

Plus, My idea was the likes of a Club Museum,Restaurant,Sports Bar,Dividable Function Suite, all of which generate cash 7 days, not just match days. .............. Keep it simple, facilities the fans can use on match days and can re-visit during the week if they wish

 

Agree.

 

Other facilities could be with partner agencies though. As said above, Ravenscraig could eventually entice some decent sized businesses with the knock-on of other requirements .... leisure and catering for example.

[Guest]

Might be a bit awkward, but are there not stadiums that include housing developments in the stands? That'd be the berries..

 

I'd suggest that New Douglas Park is the sort of model we should follow, if not the style exactly. Having offices, function suites and things available to external businesses has to be the way its done.

[Special aka]

This is what we NEED

[fatcalf]

This is what we NEED

 

<_ cheap at half the price.>

[fatcalf]

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is absolutely no precedent in Scottish football for good new stadium design (except maybe Falkirk who redeveloped their existing ground over a long period of time)

 

Eh? Falkirk moved to a new site.

[Rickoza]

To be fair, they did make massive improvements to Brocville. It was demolished!

[fatcalf]

Plus, My idea was the likes of a Club Museum,Restaurant,Sports Bar,Dividable Function Suite, all of which generate cash 7 days, not just match days. Office Blocks,Hotels etc are serious expenses and wouldnt really prove cost effective without a serious amount of effort + no little luck. Keep it simple, facilities the fans can use on match days and can re-visit during the week if they wish

Agreed but the likes of outdoor astropitches and five a side courts are already included up the Craig so we couldn't benefit from that certain moneyspinner. Unfortunate that.

[Special aka]

A wee tad different

 

I'd also like any new build at FP or otherwise to have scope for supporters go use 7 days of the week, beit bars or eateries, or gymnasiums or meeting rooms, or snooker halls or something Motherwell doesn't have ..... a cinema.

[something else]

A wee tad different

 

That's what we need, a bit of originality, something that N0 club in Scotland has done. All new stadiums (or redeveloped ones in the case of Hbs) are of similar design.

[David]

Perhaps it would be worth looking at the idea of a Lanarkshire sports centre in the Ravenscraig area, which would provide some public money towards the building of a new stadium if we were to incorporate the centre with a new stadium?

 

I also don't think we would need a stadium that holds the same amount of fans as Fir Park currently does, as we rarely get close to filling it.

 

We were on an unbeaten 12 game run and only managed to pull in under 4,000 fans for a game with Hearts, who we are competing with for a European spot.

 

A 7 or 8 thousand seater would do us just fine.

[tree]

I've found a stand design. What do you think?

 

 

http://www.myinterestingfiles.com/images/2...noahs_ark_5.jpg

 

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...%26tbs%3Disch:1