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Good post and thanks for bringing a number of people on board with the terminology and implications (albeit from the outside looking in). I was inclined not to get into this debate for a number of reasons, the most prominent is I've now reached a stage where I think change needs a groundswell of the membership to offer the board pause. Outwith impending doom or selling the club for a ginger bottle, wider fan interest has fallen off massively since the summer of 2024. Therefore we may see the odd tweak here and there but nothing substantial. The second is I prickle at the reframing of the WS as a subscription model. That is patently untrue and covered in another thread where I posted the summary of a meeting in the Cooper Suite where it was discussed. While it may be convenient to characterise it as such, the direct debit was introduced to allow people to attain the base membership of £300 in easier chunks than a lump sum. It was up to them to continue on if they were inclined to the next tier. Supporters will say, well if you want fan ownership it needs constant nurturing, it's naive to think you can contribute £300 in 2011 and that's you. The converse of that is Motherwell is a business that we patronise, most of us with a season ticket. £10 per month to the WS could be looked at as a 25-30% tax the person sitting next to you who's not a member or who is but doesn't wish to contribute and already thinks £25 per game is approaching a high water mark. Many of us may also own a nominal amount of shares in various companies, none of these companies contact us regularly as a shareholder asking for a contribution to advance or safeguard that business. It's also worth noting that Motherwell's shares are not publicly traded. I've already advocated using some of the WS pot in the Old Chestnut thread, I said £500k in that which in theory could enhance the cost of the facility by 25% (if a £2m build cost is assumed). The reason for this is our academy and player trading dwarf our gate receipt income, therefore it makes sense to make whatever we aspire to the very best it can be in scale and ambition. The reason I was happy to advocate this was I think the vast majority of WS members would support it, improving a youth academy is usually catnip to an average football fan. Second it would be something the WS could point to rather than the £868k debt sitting on the club's balance sheet or the countless other amounts frittered away into the ether over the years. Another reason is something that has came up on this thread repeatedly, the relegation/rainy day/slush/break in case of emergency fund (pick your poison). There was a number identified that allowed us to continue our top flight operations but without top flight incomes for one season (ideally two - just in case). It will allow us breathing space not to have a player fire sale and maintain staff. As has been pointed out, figures in 2011 don't hold water in 2026 due to inflation and new costs that weren't a thing back then (employers NI jumping). However, I think this is pertinent to this debate, the environment and place the club was in 15 years ago. Every penny was a prisoner and we robbed Peter to pay Paul. Due to breaking our transfer record twice within a calendar year, we're in the black and much, much healthier today. As conveyed at the AGM, Lennon's fee consisted of eight payments, staggered, so mid-summer and January? So three banked already? Would it be safe to assume Swansea negotiated a similar schedule for Eli Just? If so, the club is due an injection of cash probably in excess of the presumed cost of relegation for the next four seasons. Income of over one million a year (from each player) was not a thing in 2011 and unless that income is already sidelined or apportioned, then it's in play (if we assume Watt and Ward's income has covered our summer spending spree). With respect to the WS debt the club holds. At the outset we were sold on it would move to and fro between the society and the club in times of need. The analogy used was a bellows. The £868k has sat on the clubs books for a number of years, could it have been repaid? Maybe after Turnbull or a significant amount returned but there's been no desire by the debtor or request from the creditor. It's presence undoubtedly helped with Erik as he showed his hand and it became yet another straw for that poor camel. However the question on it I have is two-fold: If the club endeavoured to return the money to the WS, the clubs accounts would be improved? Holding stagnant debt, approximately 15% of your turnover isn't ideal if the club ever needed to engage with banks, financial institutions or lenders. Second, if the club was in dire straits then the first port of call would always be the WS and under the arrangement, funds released to the club as a secured loan. Therefore the facility we currently have in place and some are loathe to change because of the security, could that still be invoked but the WS holding onto all monies until it was asked for them?

You're not, but some are.

Lowry for me but yup Willy deserves credit for 2 cracking crosses

You weren't saying that the other day 🤣🤣

Then I saw your face......🤣🤣

Lowry for me. Only one who kept at it, trying to play the positive forward pass. His work rate is also pretty decent for a supposed lazy barsteward!

Would absolutely NOT be dropping Maswanhise on Saturday unless he is injured. Ive been a critic of his performances since February, but the last few games he has ran his socks off. I agree Seb PH should start on Saturday, as his pace in closing people down should spearhead our press, but Id be dropping Cookie or Kanga to the bench before JT. Id also have Said back, he offers a more solid out ball to retain possession and get us up the pitch than some of the others.

He's been in the door for 18 days.

Only one contender - Lowry.

Long way short of the "beginning of the end" even if we lose. Certainly will go a long way to denting confidence and that makes the games against Celtic and Hearts a bit more difficult. That said if we win (which I dont think we will) it puts the feel good factor back on the boil for two big home games.

From Alfred’s presser post game I’m sure he should be considering he’s started the wrong team to compete against what every fan knew would be Robbo ball, long hoofs n heavy tackles, lightweight front n midfield, he has to drop Mas n start Palmer or Thor as the target to either direct shots or headers in on goal on Sat or be the lay off to the midfield or Longo, start SOD for that experience, Kanga as a sub and a Levitt starting.

Aye, he is same build as Just but dont see it yet , you could be right.

Utterly horrendous tonight. No press. No urgency. No second balls. No idea. And that’s entirely on the manager. Lose against Dundee and it’s the beginning of the end.

Im not disagreeing with you, I'm agreeing that stats can be very misleading.

Who is over reacting?? people are commenting on where we are now. No one is saying we are relegation material , no one is saying we will not make top 6.

Not sure what part of my post you are diagreeing with?

Slattery and Just too, we can talk about systems but we lost 3 cracking players in midfield.

Had to be on a shite night the volt meter for a couple of decent crosses…slim pickings indeed.

We deserved to lose , the stats are very misleading. We had a pass accuracy of 87% but most of that was in our own half across the back and middle. We were slow and ponderous and never really threatened Aberdeen at any time. Even though they had far less possession they looked more likely to score than us and I wasn't shocked when they did cos as you say they went very close twice before they score and they showed all night if we gave them a sniff at goal they shoot from distance..

It's to do with people over reacting to a single defeat. It's one match that got away from us.

Lots of hard talking required between now and Saturday. We need to be much more structured and disciplined to allow us to play our football from a solid base. We also need to be running harder than the opposition, particularly when we lose the ball, to win it back. Do these things and we can win on Saturday. Dont do them, and we could be on the end of another loss.

Right now wish I hadn't got a ticket but that will change by Saturday. Right now Id bite your hand off for a point considering we follow up with Celtic and Hearts.

Pretty sobering experience tonight. We played some nice stuff and controlled the game for the first 30 minutes, but failed to score and Aberdeen grew into the game. We got a couple of warning shots that went wide before the goal, so no surprise when Molloy scored. Expected us to re-organise at HT and come out re-energised so to lose a self inflicted goal within 30 seconds of the re-start was a dagger to the heart and truth be told the game was dead there and then. After that, for all our possession and passing percentages, we were so indisciplined and wide open on the transition. To say we had 68% possession of the ball and that Aberdeen had 4 shots on target and scored 4 goals suggests that it was a bit of smash and grab by Aberdeen, but in truth it didnt feel that way. We got well and truly Robbo'd tonight and Alfred will have to sit down and contemplate where we go from here. Its defintely his League Cup semi final moment.

Needs time to settle, same build as Just and he turned out not too bad. He was definitely poor tonight but I have every confidence he will come good

I misread it