steelboy
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Posts posted by steelboy
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Miovski's a much player than Bair. He looks like he chucked it after January this season but still turns up against the Old Firm to keep himself in the shop window.
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According to Weir we are at roughly 50% of Turnover for player wages so around £3m. We have another £2m in non playing wages.
So it's around £58,000 per week on player wages. It's pretty obvious who is being unrealistic here.
As far as us having the 3rd lowest wage bill it's doesn't seem likely. Ross County, St Mirren and Killie have both reported lower wage bills than in the last set of accounts. Livi and St Johnstone don't publish full accounts but will be lower.
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26 minutes ago, dennyc said:
I think you are clever enough to know that the Safety Certificate comment related to the ground facilities.
And you can only spend profits if you earn them. Losses of over a million in successive seasons will soon empty the coffers.
Levelling the pitch and adapting the East Stand to the new height were the expensive outlays.
We earned it. Then we spent it. The alternative would be sitting in a relegation battle with a pile of money in the bank and not touching it for no reason at all other than some people don't like seeing an annual loss.
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10 minutes ago, dennyc said:
By the same token we would be in a better position if we had not incurred losses of over £3m in the past two accounting years. Those losses are clearly not of concern to some. How long can we sustain losses of that nature? And, Yes, we would still have had to spend a fortune on the East Stand and Pitch even if that previous income had not been available. Possibly funded by the Well Society leaving us even more exposed. Those upgrades were almost mandatory for Safety Certificate reasons and to avoid further SPFL sanctions because of the pitch. And Fir Park will continue to eat up funds as repairs are ongoing.
Safety certificates meant we had to level the pitch? Further SPFL sanctions when we haven't been sanctioned for the pitch since 2010? Are you sure about that?
I don't understand where you are coming from at all with concerning the losses. We make a profit one season. The money is in our bank account and we spend it. It shows up as loss the next season. It's totally normal. You seem to be suggesting that we should never spend more than we earn in any 12 month accounting period regardless of the cash in the bank which is a fairly mental way to budget for anything.
The 12 month period is totally arbitrary, it's not the be all and end.
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15 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:
If we are that well off, why are we actively seeking additional investment then?
Because McMahon and Weir don't like the look of the new Society board.
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3 minutes ago, grumpy said:
Why is it ominous? He is out of contract at the end of the season so we aren't touting him for sale as he can walk away.
I mean it's worrying that they might be warming us up to announce he's a signed a new deal.
He's our top earner and by far the worst goalkeeper in the league. We are the worst team at defending set pieces in the league because of him. We have to sign a new starting goalkeeper and free up his wage for a player that can make a positive contribution.
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40 minutes ago, dennyc said:
And sorry, but saying we have broken even over the past seven, ten or twenty years is meaningless. Turnbull and two cup finals in a season are history. What matters is how finances are working out in the present.
The club's finances in the present are a result of the previous income. We obviously wouldn't have spent a fortune on the pitch and East Stand if the money wasn't there from player sales.
It's not history if you actually have the money. We should be looking at £3-4m from Bair and Miller so it's not like we don't have assets at the moment. It's obviously a balancing act from the club but that's the nature of professional sport at every level. We are in a strong position at the moment but people talk about it like a wean that thinks there's a bogeyman under the bed.
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Ryan Jack and Halliday would be a decent midfield in wheelchair fitba.
The club have put out a Liam Kelly highlights video... an ominous sign.
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45 minutes ago, Well Well said:
So you don't actually know
I've read that issuing new shares was discussed at the club AGM.
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1 hour ago, wunderwell said:
But 1. We don't run at a profit.
Over the 7 years of fan ownership we have an overall profit of £2 million.
Compared to most other clubs we are doing extremely well. I'm not going to check but we won't be far off breaking even over the past 20 years since we came out of administration.
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10 minutes ago, dennyc said:
How does he achieve that if the Society members say no to giving up their majority holding? Are you saying that McMahon has the power to hand the club over irrespective of what the members say.
No the Society members have to vote in favour but that's obviously part of their plan.
If the members say no it's dead.
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2 minutes ago, dennyc said:
Ah, so with 45 Clubs UK wide already purchased, we are all that is left? That is a really credible basis for such an astute businessman to become involved. What about worldwide? Much as I love Scotland there must be other countries that boast non fan owned Clubs available for purchase. You still have not told me why us, rather than them.
How much profit did we make in the most recent set of Accounts? Or the previous set?
As for McMahon, your comments are bordering on fixation. But at least they tie in to your conspiracy theory.
' From what you have heard'? Heard from who?
I don't know whether Barmack is seeking majority control. Neither do you. Unless you do have that hard evidence I asked for. If he does, it will become evident soon. Then the Society Members have a decision to make. As is their legal right.
And you comments re
I explained that the deal looks like it is to get majority control essentially for free. It's the equivalent of buying a £20 quid note for a fiver.
That's why us.
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7 minutes ago, Fergie79 said:
Regarding figures what would be deemed sufficient to even offer 49% of club to potential buyers given the ground Fir Park is on must have decent value, the player assets also have decent value and the business as a whole has some value...?
The most recent club accounts list our assets at £8 million so that's the minimum but it's obviously more than that due to our status as a top flight club and potential for player sales.
It's worth remembering that the Americans don't actually intend to buy any shares. The proposal seems to be that the club will issue new shares that are given to the Americans in return for working capital (which they can later withdraw at will).
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It's worth noting that the club accounts say the club is financially stable and there is no mention of any requirement for outside investment.
Weir and McMahon brought up the need for 'transformational' investment but at no time actually described what they wanted us to transform into. They then shut up about 'auditors' pretty quickly when supporters started to ask about the clubs spending commitments and budgets. It's all been bullshit dreamed up by a PR firm designed to trick the Well Society members into handing the club over for a bag of magic beans.
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14 minutes ago, dennyc said:
As you are well aware these were only examples on non fan owned Clubs. You have avoided the real question. Why would anybody take on the challenges of buying a fan owned Club when other simpler, less challenging options are available? Clubs worldwide that could be bought without needing any fan buy in.
There have already been 45 or so UK clubs bought by Americans. There aren't many left to buy and we attractive because (1) we run at a profit (2) have no debt other than to the Well Society who will never call it in (3) McMahon has obviously told them that the Well Society members are stupid enough to effectively hand the club for free.
From what I have heard they intend to make a documentary series as part of an expansion of their Hollywood business.
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2 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:
And it seems that the board have finally realised this hence the search for outside investment, and for me the price of that investment if it happens would be majority control of the club, Investors want their returns.
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The finances are fine. We have made a good profit during a difficult period.
To me it looks like the clique that have run the club in various guises for 20 years don't like the fact that the majority of the Well Society board are now supporters from the East Stand and decided they would rather privatise than see working class fans have a real say in how the club is run.
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St Johnstone have already been sold in what looks to be a deal to carve up their valuable land between an American and the Browns.
Ross County are a village team and are only financially viable because they are a subsidiary of MacGregor's larger business.
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8 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:
Could you tell me which good level players you're referring to, leaving aside Van Veen, Johnston and the guys who are still here?
Goss, Cornelius, Furlong and Butcher before he got injured.
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1 hour ago, bobbybingo said:
If he brings in players who play at a consistent level, you're not going to like the level. Look around the league, even the top 2 can't buy consistently good players.
It was only 12 months ago that we had a team performing consistently with 9/10 outfield players at a good level plus a donkey target man.
If you look at the team on Saturday you could generously say 5 reach that standard. Maintaining the standards that we have set recently isn't an impossible task.
I understand why the club want to decieve the fans about how much money they spend and why Kettlewell lies and says making top 6 is punching well above our weight but I don't understand at all why supporters want to lower the bar so much.
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5 hours ago, David said:
The thing is, you're in the investment thread talking about how the Well Society has been a success. If you think the team as it is is "dog shit" then you're not going to be any happier next season or the season after if we remain as a fan-owned club.
Because we simply do not have the money to increase spending on players I don't think.
I don't think the budget is the problem. This season we had Lamie, McGinley, Maguire, Tierney, Butcher, Obika, Wilkinson, Shaw, Elliot, Souare, Mahon and Halliday contributing basically nothing. Our top earning players like Kelly, O'Donnell and McGinn kept two clean sheets all season. Slattery is another top earner who contributed nothing after the first international break. Nicholson is unfit and other than a flurry against Livi away added nothing.
Spittal will be away and it looks like Mugabi as well.
Tierney is the only one of those players under contract for next season. We probably have the biggest scope for a squad overhaul we've ever had this summer. If as rumoured we are going to sign Halliday despite the overwhelming evidence that his legs are gone then it's a bad omen that Kettlewell hasn't learned his lesson from Obika.
The budget available isn't in question for next season but we need the manager to prove he can bring in permanent signings who can play 30-40 games at a consistent level. Bair and Davor are the only two proper signings he's made who have had a positive impact and even then they are nowhere near consistent as well being technically limited.
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4 hours ago, David said:
Everything has been geared towards convincing fans that giving up majority control is the way forward. Which is fine, if that's what the majority eventually vote for then I hope it goes well.
I don't think it is fine.
McMahon is financing and producing videos promoting giving up fan ownership but is somehow still allowed to lead negotiations on behalf of the shareholders.
It's a clear conflict of interest.
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Just now, Stuwell2 said:
Agree that what’s been done is impressive but I have concerns - and I believe that most would agree - that we are not sustainable at the current level with what other clubs are spending.
What are the other clubs spending compared to us?
Last week you posted on the thread that our wage budget was £1.5m a year which is miles out. If you don't know what the Motherwell budget is how do you know what the other clubs are spending?
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4 hours ago, StAndrew7 said:
The chat I've heard is he's happy to stay and has a deal essentially agreed but not until he knows we're staying in the Premiership.
Even McGinn knows the team are dog shit.
I think they are the worst bunch of players we have had in a long time but there's still zero chance they are getting relegated now.
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20 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:
You're not seriously blaming this, or any other, Scottish government for the bigot brothers' inability to behave like rational human beings, are you?
There was a midweek Old Firm when Lennon and McCoist squared up and they had a debate about it in Holyrood. That doesn't happen in normal Parliaments.
Politicians here will take any chance to scapegoat football to deflect from how fucked the country is.
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2024/25 Ins & Outs Discussion
in Club Chat
Posted
Halliday, Scougall, Easton and Obileye.
They're not the most inspiring rumours at the moment.