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Macron 2019-20 home and away kits

Macron 2019-20 home and away kits  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. The new kits - which do you prefer?

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It’s a tricky one, on the one hand I’m ecstatic that the shirts are sponsor free, however, on the flip side I’ve known people who’s lives have been badly affected by gambling. Personally I would ban betting advertising on shirts, although at the moment football is a wash with online betting sponsors to the extent that the majority of teams will have at least one betting logo on their shirt. Suicide prevention and gambling aren’t great bedfellows but in the current climate betting companies are the ones with the money and we are sadly in no position to refuse their investment.

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My question is, where does personal responsibility come into it? I've known people who's lives have been affected badly through gambling as well, but I wouldn't blame the gambling companies. I know many more people who can gamble for a bit of fun and it never becomes an issue.

This is a good deal, and unless part of the trade-off is having to sign up for Paddy Power in order to be allowed to buy a shirt I don't see the problem. We've all moaned for years about sponsors on the shirts wasting the look of them, and when we get a deal that allows us to wear or buy them sponsor-free we're still moaning.

 

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21 hours ago, Andy_P said:

Al B nods in quiet approval at this news.

Never in any doubt, although i'd always be nice to Gaz in the hope he takes me with him next time he's playing in a Vegas poker tourney.

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16 hours ago, santheman said:

Got mine this morning and for the first time in my life had to go for large instead of medium. They seem to be on the small side

Thoughts and prayers.

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I think the whole debate as to whether or not Gambling/alcohol sponsors should or shouldn't be allowed is quite a dangerous subject, i'm sure we can all agree we would rather they weren't involved but the effects both have on everyone can vary from none at all to the absolute extreme. I for example have never had any bad experiences with gambling or know anyone who has so I don't see a huge issue with having a betting company on the kit other than personal preference as it doesn't steer me towards gambling etc however I can appreciate there is a flip side to that, without knowing what it is, the sponsor will really not sit well with people.

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41 minutes ago, Neilwell86 said:

I think the whole debate as to whether or not Gambling/alcohol sponsors should or shouldn't be allowed is quite a dangerous subject, i'm sure we can all agree we would rather they weren't involved but the effects both have on everyone can vary from none at all to the absolute extreme. I for example have never had any bad experiences with gambling or know anyone who has so I don't see a huge issue with having a betting company on the kit other than personal preference as it doesn't steer me towards gambling etc however I can appreciate there is a flip side to that, without knowing what it is, the sponsor will really not sit well with people.

You not having a gambling problem isn't  a particularly good argument for not objecting to gambling sponsors throughout football tbh.

I said my piece over on P&B so won't say too much here but there is a faint whiff of hypocrisy of pushing suicide awareness etc. and taking coin from companies who, in my opinion, purposely ingrain themselves into deprived areas, where these problems can be prevalent.       

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19 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

You not having a gambling problem isn't  a particularly good argument for not objecting to gambling sponsors throughout football tbh.

I said my piece over on P&B so won't say too much here but there is a faint whiff of hypocrisy of pushing suicide awareness etc. and taking coin from companies who, in my opinion, purposely ingrain themselves into deprived areas, where these problems can be prevalent.       

Would it be hypocritical if we banned sponsorship from a gambling firm, but continued to promote the 'Well Lottery? 

This is where banning things gets tricky.

 

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BTW, I don't disagree with the notion that some gambling, and alcohol and cigarette (and Cash Converter) companies push their products to the less well-off. 

Where I take isssue is when people think that banning these companies is the solution. It's certainly a great campaign slogan and an easy bandwagon for government and activists to jump on. 

What it fails to address is the actual poverty and deprivation of the communities that are being targeted. That is a more important problem to address, and will take much more effort to solve. And governments (especially ones of the current shade of blue) aren't too interested in solving hard problems; especially when they can stay in power without those votes.

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1 hour ago, weeyin said:

Would it be hypocritical if we banned sponsorship from a gambling firm, but continued to promote the 'Well Lottery? 

This is where banning things gets tricky.

 

It is tricky, you’re correct and it’s why I said over on P&B (appreciate you may not read that forum) that I can’t expect the club to base their policies on a idealistic world view of a supporter such as myself.

 

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Gambling/Alcohol advertising doesn't bother me,  fuck even the (iconic) tobacco advertising in motor sport didn't bother me. (which they're impressively sneaking back in)  We're a small Club and a hugely successful business being willing to back us financially is quite the coup for the us.

Gambling companies, airlines, car manufacturers and tech giants seem to be almost exclusively where the money is at these days so there's no point having some faux morality about the business of sponsorship deals.  IMO having Cash Converters as our main sponsor was much worse than what we've just agreed with Paddy Power. 

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13 minutes ago, Burn_Broomfield said:

Gambling companies, airlines, car manufacturers and tech giants seem to be almost exclusively where the money is at these days so there's no point having some faux morality about the business of sponsorship deals.  IMO having Cash Converters as our main sponsor was much worse than what we've just agreed with Paddy Power. 

Agree with the Cash Convertors point.

Also, for me, companies like Facebook are doing far more damage to society than just about any other business I can think of.

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9 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Agree with the Cash Convertors point.

Also, for me, companies like Facebook are doing far more damage to society than just about any other business I can think of.

Facebook is of course where Paddy Power have a big presence.

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2 minutes ago, weeyin said:

Agree with the Cash Convertors point.

Also, for me, companies like Facebook are doing far more damage to society than just about any other business I can think of.

I'd agree with that.  The games and mobile companies and platforms like Facebook are responsible for addictions Worldwide and the general loss of social skills, but are universally accepted.

Suicide prevention is a noble addition to our shirts, however there are endless causes of it.  Whilst gambling may be a contributing factor in some cases, it is only a small piece of of the overall picture.  Drugs, drink, relationships, mental health, lifestyle, work, trauma the list continues ad infinitum. 

Separating the business side of things from the charitable side of things is essential here.  Both can work on our shirts.  I'm sure Paddy Power contribute greatly to the specific addiction charities concerned with their markets, with the likely implementation that they will have to contribute an even greater amount through evolving legislation. 

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6 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

Facebook is of course where Paddy Power have a big presence.

Virtually every company on the Earth has a fully functioning, targeted and paid for social media presence.  It's easy advertising to increase site hits and customer interaction. 

It is literally how most companies operate their online presence.

Even LinkedIn has basically morphed into a business version of Facebook.

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6 minutes ago, Burn_Broomfield said:

Virtually every company on the Earth has a fully functioning, targeted and paid for social media presence.  It's easy advertising to increase site hits and customer interaction. 

I didn't say it wasn't, in fact, I actually run social media channels for a 'company' so fully aware of how these things work. My point was more that the club has a very clear social media strategy and hooking up with a company who is so successful on that platform is only going to increase that exposure.  

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1 minute ago, Londonwell said:

I didn't say it wasn't, in fact, I actually run social media channels for a 'company' so fully aware of how these things work. My point was more that the club has a very clear social media strategy and hooking up with a company who is so successful on that platform is only going to increase that exposure.  

Apologies, I wasn't quite sure what  direction your response was going there.

Agreed, the link up between the companies should absolutely be of huge benefit to us as a club.  Good to see my Welsh team Newport County involved in it as well.

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2 hours ago, Londonwell said:

You not having a gambling problem isn't  a particularly good argument for not objecting to gambling sponsors throughout football tbh.

I said my piece over on P&B so won't say too much here but there is a faint whiff of hypocrisy of pushing suicide awareness etc. and taking coin from companies who, in my opinion, purposely ingrain themselves into deprived areas, where these problems can be prevalent.       

Not sure if you picked me up correctly, however I wasn't putting up an 'argument' for not objecting to gambling sponsors. I was saying that I think it's quite a dangerous topic to discuss because people have so many different experiences of Gambling. I personally have no issue with us being sponsored by paddy power, I don't care about who's name is plastered on the front of our shirt, even better that we no one this year but I can see why people would feel incredibly strong against having sort of relation with these types of companies. I certainly wasn't putting up any sort of PRO gambling sponsors advert.

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Let's be honest given the amount advertising the average person sees daily promoting the big bookmakers on TV, Radio, buses, street advertising, online etc, somebody walking about with a footie top  ( which outwith going to or from a game or going to play football, is wrong on all levels ) advertising the same is going to make feck all difference.

So let's not get all sanctimonious about taking cash from Paddy power, especially as it won't even be on the shirts, business is business and by all accounts if true it seems to be a very good bit of business by the club. :nod:

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17 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:

Let's be honest given the amount advertising the average person sees daily promoting the big bookmakers on TV, Radio, buses, street advertising, online etc, somebody walking about with a footie top  ( which outwith going to or from a game or going to play football, is wrong on all levels ) advertising the same is going to make feck all difference.

I don't think anyone is concerned about whether the advertising has any noticeable effect (although, spoiler: companies wouldn't keep paying us or anyone else if it didn't), so much as whether particular sponsors fit the image our club likes to project.

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Just now, numpty said:

I don't think anyone is concerned about whether the advertising has any noticeable effect (spoiler: companies wouldn't keep spending all that money if it didn't), so much as whether particular sponsors fit the image our club is trying to project.

Sadly, the entities who would fit within the image we're trying to project either aren't interested in spending money sponsoring a football club like us, or they simply can't afford to match what we're being offered. 

It's all well & good decrying the evil bookies, but if we knocked back PaddyPower, for example, and took a lesser amount from a different sponsor would we be happy to see the club take less money because of it?

Would we be saying "well, it's worth it to be morally in the right" if we couldn't sign a decent striker to score the goals to keep us up, or afford to offer the next Davie Turnbull a contract as he progresses from youth team to first team?

I'm all for us being socially aware when we can, but this is still a business.

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The irony that watching Motherwell play football often makes one feel suicidal seems lost on some here .

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31 minutes ago, David said:

Sadly, the entities who would fit within the image we're trying to project either aren't interested in spending money sponsoring a football club like us, or they simply can't afford to match what we're being offered. 

It's all well & good decrying the evil bookies, but if we knocked back PaddyPower, for example, and took a lesser amount from a different sponsor would we be happy to see the club take less money because of it?

Would we be saying "well, it's worth it to be morally in the right" if we couldn't sign a decent striker to score the goals to keep us up, or afford to offer the next Davie Turnbull a contract as he progresses from youth team to first team?

I'm all for us being socially aware when we can, but this is still a business.

I would question if sport as a whole is the right place for advertising gambling and alcohol. No different to the way tobacco advertising was banned in F1 just short of 20 years ago. I don’t believe the two belong together in a modern world. It’s not like people are suddenly banned from gambling or drinking, it’s just a case of not promoting it.

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F1 itself, however, promotes the glamour of cars. And car emissions are destroying the planet's climate.

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Was thinking exact same this evening.  Didn't like the Dumbarton strip tonight, but that strip in the photo always my favourite after the claret and amber.

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