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He's not going to change the minds of a chunk of the support though. The die is cast for some and they are just marking time until the next guy comes in and gets told of his failings that make him not good enough. We could get 12 points from the next four games and all it would take it is another loss and the previous four wins would be downplayed. For some he's been living on borrowed time probably since that first run of defeats in the December that followed the 2017 League Cup Final. That he got to another Final, qualified for Europe, has kept the team in the division, rebuilt three, possibly four different teams across his tenure to overcome the challenges of the day, played his part in generating millions of pounds that have put club in its strongest off the field footing for years and achieved everything the board have asked him to achieve doesn't matter. They've decided.

I always liked ramsden, and more so after this. Some great stories and insights. Motherwell stuff starts around 1:25

LOL. It is like Groundhog Day. We keep going round and round in circles making the same points. I am as guilty as anyone. I love the manager chat. I remember arguing with Steelboy in 2008? about Jim Gannon. 12years later and I am still saying the same things for managers, he is still saying the same things against them. Keeps our mind off worrying about a pandemic.

I agree with everything you said apart from this part about Scottish managers. The records aren't broadly similar at all? Brown took us to 5th and left us the next season in 5th place - he was steady. McCall finished 2nd and 3rd, broke all sorts of records and gave us the most exciting team of the last 20 odd years yet some fans turned him very quickly in his last season, McGhee took us to 3rd and 7th and the fans (rightly) turned on him in his second spell when it was clear he was losing the actual plot. Gannon was a nutjob who was let go for refusing to sign a permanent contract but l I can't recall the fans hounding him out? If anything, most pointed the finger at the senior players when things started to go wrong. Baraclough almost got us relegated, playing some of the worst football I've ever seen along the way then started the following season in a similar vein. I think all of that points to fans reacting to what they see on the pitch and is nothing to do with the nationality of the manager. I think Robinsons problem is that despite his success, there have been a few lengthy losing streaks where we look completely incoherent. Those months of traipsing to Fir Park with little to look forward to stick in folks minds and are far more relevant than the fact he's not Scottish.

So by that logic are White, Lamie, Seedorf and McGinlay as good as we can get?

And you illustrate my point perfectly. We haven't finished in the bottom two in any of the seasons we have had Robinson in charge. We didn't finish in the bottom two in the season he took over in March. He's delivering what you've asked of him but you still want rid.

I want to add my reasoning to the debate here. I know Im tagged as a boo boy as well, but I at least want to show the reasons my opinions are the way they are. Motherwell are the 6th biggest club in the country, historically and points wise. That, and the league quality being utter shite, I feel finishing around 6th / 7th should be our level. With that being said, In Robbos first season, we finished 7th and made 2 cup finals. An undoubted success! We got pumped in both finals but made a good bit of money. However, after the League Cup Final, we went on a run of 2 wins in the following 21 league matches! Robbos second season we finished 8th, got a qf in the League Cup and 5th round in the Scottish Cup. Not what Id call a successful season, but not a bad season either! However in this season we went on 2 awful runs, winning 1 of our first 9 and 1 in 7 during December Last Season was incomplete. Both cups were very poor! The 3rd place finish is a nice CV header but means little considering the season still had a quarter to run. However wether we had finished 3rd, 5th or 6th if the season had run its course, the fact we guaranteed 6th meant it was a good season, nothing more than good due to the 2 bad cup exits. However, once again, we went on a shocking run, winning 2 of our last 10. This season we are 2 wins from 9. My biggest concern is that unlike in previous seasons, we dont have Moult/Main in 17/18, Turnbull in 18/19 or Scott/Donnelly in 19/20 to drag us through games. Yes Donnelly is still here but he's out till the New Year and Long is a shadow of the player he was last year. We also dont have players like Tait, Aldred, Hartley & McHugh who can lead the team anymore! Every season Robbos teams go on lengthy shocking runs, but have ALWAYS had a Turnbull / Moult / McHugh / Aldred / Hartley to push us on. This season we not only have none of that, we have players in Lamie, McGinley, Seedorf, Hylton & White who are nothing more than mid table Scottish Championship players, and thats being kind to Seedorf! Add to that the fact that 3 months into working with this squad, the manager doesnt know his best 11, doesnt know his most effective formation, and the team are making the exact same mistakes they were 8 months ago. I have never once said Steve Robinson has done a bad job here. He hasnt! But by the same measure, he isnt some kind of messiah either!! Everyone has an expiry date, and I just feel his has come at Fir Park. This season, our squad is weaker, evidently poorly coached, poorly organized and Im not even sure they seem as motivated as in previous years, theres just something not right. With Campbell undoubtedly away in the next 2 weeks I really do fear for our league status with no goals or leaders in the team

You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that we can match Hibs or Aberdeens wages... ...our best hope is that Campbell has known options down South

One was straight at him, the other had Air Traffic Control momentarily concerned.

Regardless, history books will always state we finished 3rd

And now, if you could be realistic...

Personally I go to support the team regardless, I’m fully aware that under any manager I’m not going to be watching Premier league level football but the Scottish Premiership which let’s be honest is poor. I’ve seen us under Barraclough, McGee, and Robinson. I would say I’ve enjoyed the Robinson experience more than under the other two.

Don't go to Fir Park ( when allowed ) to sit and talk with mates about how much money we have in the bank how sound a footing we have I go to get entertained something that hasn't happened for a while .Some of the football we have played under Robinson would make your eyes bleed and some of his signings have been horrific. You can harp on as much as you like about budget and plenty of you do,his job like the manager of the Faroe Islands team who are on the brink of qualifying for the group stages is to get the best out of the players and coaching them how he wants them to play .I don't expect us to finish top 6 every season we should be good enough to stay away from the bottom two places ,we really have been terrible since Xmas his signings have been terrible as I have said before some of them shouldn't be at Fir Park . If we don't win on Friday night then he has to go fed up listening to his excuses

Football management is funny business. You can do a good job for 4 years but by year 5 you fall off a cliff edge. It happened with McCall and it might be happening with Robinson. If this is the end of the line then he still leaves with my thanks for the job he's done (which he's been well rewarded for). I hope it's not the end and he can turn it round but in willing to accept it might be his time despite being a fan of his. We're the 6th or 7th biggest club in the country, that's our place that's where we are in supporter numbers and that's where we sit in terms of points gained over 100 years and over 20 years. We're going to have ups and downs, our highs haven't been as high as a cup win but they haven't been as low as a relegation. I'll be honest and say that's probably more luck than great stewardship but it is what it is. As fans a cup win and a relegation then coming back up would be better than staying in the league and not winning anything but it's far more precarious a position financially. Short term, we weren't really good enough to be third last year, and this year we're probably better than 11th or 12th but sometimes the bounce goes with you, sometimes against you.

100 percent we should be a top 6 club every year why not?however would we have finished 3rd if the league was finished early?I have my doubts but we did but when you look at our results since start of the year we have have been utterly terrible and this years recruitment has been poor,we are a carrying a fair few players that need to leave. If we don't go on a run between now and Christmas we are going to be in major bother as from January we tend to be terrible he does bang on about getting to cup finals and finishing 3rd in league but doesn't add didn't win any of them and cause the league was stopped early.

Robinson has during his tenure improved the league positions + couple of cup runs + profited from some players he brought in (Kipre, Heneghan etc) He's also benefited and helped the group of very decent youngsters who have come through (Cadden, Scott, Campbell, Turnbull, Haste mk1) Until now we've been progressing well. pre season I had thought we were headed for a great season - it's not panning out that way. Last year is impossible to improve as we'd no right to be in top 3. Anything from 8th-4th is where I expect us to be. What's not clear at the moment is the direction, what type of football/formation are we trying to embed ? do we have more youngsters coming through ? It may just be a wobble , I hope it is but clear direction and belief in a system is required - otherwise it's akin to McCalls last season when he ran out of ideas.

So would I but I would take a quality wide player before him in all honesty.

I would much rather have Cole than Seedorf and Hylton, he can get us up the park quickly in a way that nobody else really can, he's very quick.

Only scored 4 goals last time he was here not for me thank you very much

Hard to beat but I don’t think they are all currently active, I am assuming some are in the jail for impersonation.

Going 442 here. I'm sure some will need to be played out of position but they're all gifted with both feet and a superior positional sense so it'll work. Twardzik Louis Laing Kieran Kennedy Zak Jules Joe Chalmers Antony Straker Lee Lucas Casper Sloth Jake taylor Wes Fletcher Jacob Blyth

The logic is difficult though, we just can’t compare different things. Why can this happen when this can’t? That is not the point. It is all choices and compromises. We can’t do everything, we need to pick which things we do. Everyone’s vested interests means that in their eyes the wrong things are chosen to open up. The things we have chosen to open up and our approach to that as a society has led to a recent increase in infections. That might be a good thing or bad thing depending on your viewpoint but it does create a danger to certain elements of our population.

At what cost to the Club? Staff. Police. Stewarding plus the expense of setting up and managing specialised seating and access arrangements would all have to be funded. I don't see Government helping with that cost. With no additional income as any fan quota would likely be insufficient to cover Season Ticket holders, never mind cash paying punters. And games would still require to be streamed for those ST Holders unable/not chosen to attend. At least that generates some offsetting income from away fans and non ST Holders. Pubs, restaurants, supermarkets, Gyms, Cinemas and the like receive cash from everybody who visits. In truth that is why they are open. Not out of public duty or for mental health reasons. Motherwell would receive no new income and it would drain vital cash resources. I do think there are mental health and social reasons why it would help to have fans back right now, but in a Commercial world it would not surprise me if Motherwell were accepting of the current arrangements for practical reasons. It might not be all about Government rulings, targeted or otherwise. So, although I honestly believe everybody would like to open up football grounds I really I don't think it is about blaming Football Authorities, Individual Clubs, Central Government, Local Politicians or the remote possibility of fans ignoring guidelines. It may be more about being financially prudent, even if given leeway. A brief, one or two game trial, before a fuller opening could be affordable for some clubs. But only on a short term basis and not for fifteen or twenty games in a row. Just guessing like everybody else, but I suspect both Aberdeen and Ross County conducted their trials in the hope of greater numbers of cash paying fans being allowed access in the very near future. Perhaps even away fans. But the increase in infections has put paid to that. With lower league Clubs the Season Ticket numbers might not be so great so possibly they might get some financial benefit from a few cash paying spectators. . But it might be minimal and might not be sustainable longer term for them either. I am sure the Highland League were quoted recently as being on the verge of cancelling their abbreviated season which is due to start in October? if greater fan access cannot take place.

Oliver Burke was hung at Leith docks for stealing cadavers from Edinburgh graveyards. Lyndon Dykes was the first person to cross the Sahara in a T Model Ford in 1913. Lawrence Shankland runs a successful Edinburgh based solicitors firm. Oli McBurnie is a cheeky schoolboy pantomime character that is shoe horned into every Christmas production at the Kings theatre and is played by Gary Hollywood.