cooper_no1
-
Posts
1,142 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by cooper_no1
-
-
There's been a fair whack of greetin for a few weeks on the trot but what i have noticed through it all is that for the first time that i can remember there is greeting without the added comment of," this is what we should do......"
In other words,theres been a shed load of greeting but with no-one coming up with any real viable alternatives. I'd stick with Mccall, even if it is for the sheer simple reason nae other c**t seems to want to sit in the Managers chair at Fir Park. If they did then in my view,they probably would have been - Mccall,we have established, wasn't even Boyle/Motherwells first,second or third choice......that's no a particularly good sign.
A couple of wins and everyone will be fine again,always are.
-
I really don't know what folk were expecting - with a budget of virtually heehaw (including wages) i'm surprised he managed to get anyone. Frankly, Jeffers was absolutely ghanting at ibrox a few years ago but to be honest right now beggers canny really be choosers. The exact same point i made about Rangers with Diouf, im sure they would have prefered someone else but to be honest SOMEONE is probably better than NOONE.
Yes Jeffers is getting on a bit in his career(or so it seems) but he is still only 30 and will hopefully be able to do one last wee turn for a few months and score a few goals - something motherwell have been lacking a bit lately as we all very well know.
Gotta give him a chance, i don't really understand some of the negativity around mccall and MFC just now. Things were going well under Craig and Archie granted but they left and along with them so did the best players available to the club. Replacing them on a wage budget was never going to be easy - look at Killy,they've lost their top scorer so watch them start to struggle. Hibs will continue to get beaten, Aberdeen won't be turned round they are still dreadful after the first few good results and Dundee united are there to be beaten on any given day.
Motherwell,at full pelt are not a million miles away and top 6 is more than reachable at this stage, noone is great shakes and every team outside possibly Celtic right now are there to be beaten both at home and away so points can be picked up.
Just keep a bit of faith over the next few months and see what happens i really don't think it's as much doom and gloom as some folk are painting the picture to be.
Of course i could be completely wrong but heyho ..................
-
No wanting to burst anyone's bubble here but what do people REALISTICALLY think McCalls budget was for this window?? The figures that i was quoted were....difficult to say the least.
Of course it could be absolute bollocks am not going to pretend it was from some brilliant source. I'd just like to know what peoples expectation on budget were for this window,especially at a time when the Scottish economy not to mention Scottish football is on it's erse...
-
Dundalk - manager for 17/18 months, mid table finish.
Stockport - got them promoted and then they went bust of something, though not his fault.
Motherwell - Seemed to be doing alright but then things went a bit warped - booted after 6 months.
Peterborough - fail in all honesty
port Vale - things not going well.
Whatever happens with the man he doesn't hang about long at any club with the obvious exception of Stockport.
What is clear is that he has a vision of how football should be played - nice tippy tappy free flowing stuff. Sadly hanging about the SPL and lower leagues of England isn't going to get you that sort of football. It's rough and tumble stuff, mainly to make up for a lack of ability.
Bet he'd make a cracking manager in a league where they don't hack the fuck outta each other much - wherever that is.
-
Watched the game on sky+ there - rather dire affair.
Motherwell had a lot more of the ball than Rangers today, now that wouldn't be hard because the Rangers team looks very very stale these days, coupled with the fact there is no flair and Rangers are,as predicted - only a slightly better than average SPL side these days. Certainly not a team to be feared like in previous years.
Motherwell players were not prepared to sit back like Aberdeen yesterday and let Rangers play their game. The surface certainly wasn't cut out for good passing football and i felt Motherwell made the best of that and rightly so.
Nothing anyone could do about Edu's strike - it's one of them things,99/100 that goes out for a by kick or even a shy, sadly for motherwell today was the day it went into the net and looked good.
After that though Rangers never really looked like doing ANYTHING. Motherwell kept the ball well,put some decent passes together but with very little end product. With the exception of Alexanders 'save' near the end Motherwell didn't really give him much to do. Cracking strike again for the equaliser and it seemed to give the Motherwell boys even more confidence to go right at Rangers, like all teams should do in a Cup Semi Final.
Penalty claim? Yeah it was a decent shout and it's something that i have seen given before. It would have been soft but it could have been given and if it was i think people would struggle to complain. That's the nature of the beast now in Scotland, inconsistency of refereeing. The players didn't seem to make much of it though so who knows.
Shame how the second goal was lost, one Rangers attack (about their only one of the game) and for my money big craigan was ball watching. Good cross but you expect that from a £4million player ffs!! It was far to easily lost by Motherwell though and that's obviously the sore point because Rangers had no right to score that goal, it should have been a 50/50 header in the box - not a free one for Neismith to nod into an empty net.
As said,unlucky not to equalise - yes good save by Alexander, he didn't know much about it but he was in the right place at the right time and that's the best thing for a goalkeeper to be.
There was a good determination and spirit among the Motherwell team today and that should boad well for the games ahead. Considering Motherwell have lost their best defender and their star striker in the past month without any real replacements it was clear to see the ability that remains.
Major downside today, for a cup semi final the attendence was pathetic. Really think the SFA/SPL or whoever runs this event should have made tickets £10 and £5. It was a freezing cold day, the game was live on council telly and times are hard. Full credit to the Motherwell end today, must have felt like there was noone else in the Stadium such was the lack of fans in yon Rangers end.
-
no matter who's fault it is....money is always going to be a defining factor in the decision.
The biggest problem that i have right now is that the standard of Scottish football is fucking horrible - and getting worse. While the standard is so poor it doesn't matter if we have a 10 team or a fifty team league, people will still dwindle away from the game when they are being asked to pay a rediculous amount of money to go watch a football game - £20. It's £7 for the pictures,where it's warm...the entertainment lasts longer than 90minutes and ye can have a pint while your in there,the seats are comfier and theres usually a similar atmosphere,ie...quiet.
I know clubs have to cover their costs etc but the problem is that football is far to overpriced for the poor quality product on show. I commend John Boyle for speaking out because this needs to be a long term plan for the good of Scottish Football,not a knee jerk reaction that we will change again in a few years.
Football is a business now, and i understand Rangers,Celtic or anyone else wanting more of the cash - but surely there has to be some form of compromise on all sides for this to work. the 11-1 voting technique is stupid.What we need is a strong leader to come out and state good hard plans - not a wee blithering idiot like Neil Doncaster.
Sadly,no matter what happens i think we need to accept that Scottish Football is going to be poor for a while longer - but charging the fees that clubs do for watching football in an environment when you can't even stand up when you want to is what is driving fans away from the game - it's not because were playing the same team four times a season.
-
Seems to be a few folk out there that just don't get it anymore.
First of all - yes, there are parts of Fir Park that are now well beyond their expiery date. The East Stand has been a bit of a joke for quite some time. The main stand is like an antique however it is also where a lot of the clubs functioning takes place(changing rooms etc) so replacing it or knocking it down is no option.In any matter Motherwell FC don't have that kind of Money.
The South stand and Cooper are not particularly old and seem more than fit for purpose to be honest.
Anyway,back to reality and the thing is - the problems with plumming etc could have happened anywhere and it's in no way a surprise. Im not saying that it's right - the game should probably not have went ahead or at least those stands shouldn't have been open to the public in that state however the circumstances must have been fairly extreme because with no football played at Fir park for some time the cash levels must have been slipping further and further into the red. That game HAD to go ahead,i'd almost go as far as that.
Leaving Fir Park and setting up a new stadium might seem like an appealing option to many. The problem is that it's probably not functionable right now. First of all Motherwell FC would have to sell the current sight. Now i know a few years ago there was good interest in this area of land but who's to say that same interest is still there?? With the development of a new area at Ravenscraig who says that the piece of land where fir park is is now as desirable as it once was?? Especially in this current financial climate???...I might be wrong, i have no knowledge of it just a general observation.
Building a new stadium??To what extent. People may not like the two sided affairs that we see popping up around the country these days but i struggle to justify anything larger. The expense is huge and for what....mayby 5 games a season??....Sorry but the current Motherwell attendence is (like most other clubs) abysmal.
A lot of people will not like the idea,and to be honest it's pointless now anyway but with a bit of thought MFC and Hamilton should perhaps have built a new stadium between them. That won't please anyone i'm sure but in reality it wouldn't have been a bad idea.
Point is,i don't see folk falling over themself to buy Fir Park and we all know motherwell don't have the cash to build a new stadium without getting a good whack for Fir Park. Sad as it is,i think folk might need to wade through the pish for a while more because until someone acctually closes the stadium down - it will remain open for business in exactly the same condition as it is now.....and that goes for EVERY club - not just Motherwell.Sadly Motherwell do seem to have one of the older stadiums around just now.
-
he may have said no compo was due, but that still doesn't give the sheep the right to Tap up our management team.
It's two totally different situations though,and the 'sheep' didn't....they did absolutely NOTHING wrong....the laws of the SPL are fucked up,that's the problem,they totally conflict each other.
But aye....c***s
-
-
I can't be bothered looking for the quote but I'm sure Brown stated in an article in Febuary that he and Knox were commited to Motherwell for the next 18 months. Although I'm no lawyer but if he also said the same to JB, then in my eyes he had a verbal contract with Motherwell which I understand in Scottish law is the same as a written contract.
any legal minded guys out there who could clear this up?
That's a good point and something that i was just thinking about with regards to Walter Smith, apparently he doesn't have a written contract but he HAS stated he will be at Rangers until the end of the season. No idea personally how it works but an interesting point as far as Craig Brown goes.
Interesting to note the challenge to Scot's Law here by a few people, obviously shows two very distinct cases here.
The argument about Aberdeen Tapping is under the SFA constitution - not particularly Scots Law in itself. Whereas the 'contract' between Craig Brown and Motherwell is being based on Scot's Law as opposed to the SFA constitution.
Strikes up two different cases.
-
its two different rules. if you break either one of them you're in the wrong, that's surely not that difficult to understand. so aye you're still talking shite.
Mate don't waste your time i agree completely with what you wrote in the rest of your post you don't need to prove it to me or anything because i agree 100%, i was being theoretical but obviously you are right - they'd look stupid.
The bit that i have quoted though. In my interpretation of the two rules, they are in clear conflict with one another. In this case...the constitution does however state the word 'written' so it's got to be decided what one of the laws were actually broken because they are very very similar. The one that i quoted specifically states, "manager" and "coach" in the same rule as, "written contract of employment". This would appear far more specific to the individual case that we are talking about.
I fully accept that rule H3 states, "any employee" - a category that would be fully inclusive of anyone on the clubs payroll, but the two rules are rather contrasting. The second rule would appear to specify an alteration to this rule.
Personally i see the two rules as incompatible and need to be changed and ironed out by the SFA, but that'w aht i mean about no clear precedent on this case - the decision made would then alter the SFA's constitution in some form no matter how the ruling went.
If the two rules give two different verdicts then it's hard to say that what Aberdeen done was wrong - on a strictly constitutional basis.
All i am sticking by,is that it is far from watertight and therefore....am no talking shite really am i.
Don't worry, i'll take that apology in WRITTING...ya DICK.
-
Glad that’s cleared up Fatcalf. We should expect a A.F.C. cheque in the post any day now and a public apology from Craig Brown live on Sky Sports.
Would be nice, a see he's acting the victim in the paper now though......widney expect that apology anytime soon.
Arsehole that he is. -
Right since you feel the need to be a tool about it, read my modified post.....tell me how a lawyer would then be told to duke.
Still talking shite ?.....The word 'WRITTEN' in clearly stated, you need to read a WHOLE document,not just one selective paragraph im afraid.
-
1. it's a breach of spl rules because they discussed a job with him without informing us. how hard is that to understand?
2. brown pretty much outline exactly what happened in the media so it'd be hard to lie now.
3. it's not the same as bhs and primark. the spl is one company made up of it's member clubs and there are rules governing situations like this.
hippo is 100% correct, just repeat what he says and you won't look like a diddy.
Believe me,it's not 100% waterproof like your making out. The SPL IS one company with rules to govern this, but those rules are extremly BROAD and like anything else open to WIDE interpretation.
I said Hippo was correct, infact if you read what i said you'll see that i also said i was playing Devils Advocate but also just exposing that the points made can easily be persuaded otherwise.
Brown also outlined if i am lead to believe that he was 100% commited to Motherwell and would not be leaving them. Something that has turned out to be a lie and in turn made his credibility questionable. if he lied about that could he not then have lied about what happened between him and Aberdeen???
There is always going to be two sides of the story, and so far - you seem only concerned with Motherwells,making you the diddy.....no me.
I'm in agreement,just know it's not that simple. I canny believe anyone thinks this is watertight.....because it's certainly not.I might be being a bit cynical here anaw but is the SPL going to make a judgment on this like they usually do,ie making a c**t of it.
H11 Any Club either directly or indirectly inducing or attempting toinduce any manager, coach, trainer or other person involved in
the training or management of the team of another Club or a
club in the SFL or in membership of the SFA to breach a
contract shall be dealt with by the Company as it shall see fit.
Listen i have total sympathy and would love to see Aberdeen,or infact Craig Brown hammered for this....it was out of order and totally against the spirit or as i would like to understand the laws of the game.
A3.1 In all matters and transactions relating to the League andCompany each Club shall behave towards each other Club and
the Company with the utmost good faith
The one MAJOR question over this is what get's me,the laws and rules are a bit slack in my reconing.How do you govern an approach from one club to another in this situation??..I'm asking seriously,because if all you need is a 'courtasy phonecall' like John boyle said then it's very much one word against another is it no??
Does anyone know the rules better on that?
Look am nae expert,would never claim to be i'm just giving an opinion on the way that i can look at it. Suerly if i can see it that way some form of lawyer with a better interpretation that obviously i do could tear several shades a shite out of it.
And here is my proof,from the very same document Hippo quoted.
H10 No Club shall either directly or indirectly induce or attempt toinduce any manager, coach, trainer or other person involved in
the training or management of the team of another Club or a
club in the SFL or in membership of the SFA to break a written
contract of employment. Clubs may notify the Company in
writing, of the period of all or any such persons' contracts of
employment.
-
It cannot be tapping unless Aberdeen made the first contact.The other argument against is that because Craig Brown resigned, he can more or less say that discussions surrounding the actual job itself were not made until after he terminated his 'contract' by resigning.
Before then it could simply be discussion between the person from primark talking to their mate whos the gaffer over at BHS.
Yes, i know Craig Brown has hinted toward previous discussion over the job in the days beforehand,however...he's already proved himself to be a liar in other tabloid discussions so therefore that's not got any real standing either.
I'm just playing devils advocate obviously but i assure you as much as Motherwell feel they have a case, the broad terminology and lack or precedent on this issue means that proving any wrongdoing by Aberdeen is incredibly difficult if not impossible.
-
-
This is the SPL Rule on tapping up:
Employees Contracts
H3 No Club shall directly or indirectly induce or attempt to induce any employee of another Club to terminate a contract of employment with that other Club (whether or not by breach of that contract) or directly or indirectly approach any such employee with a view to offering employment without the consent of that other Club. For the purpose of this Rule H3, "Club" means a member club of the SFA.
£10 to whoever can find the word "written" in there. Is there really any argument that Brown and Knox were employees? We paid them, they turned up for work, on his pension forms Brown would put MFC under "employer" and they resigned. You can't resign if you are not employed.
Either the press are deliberately misunderstanding this or are genuinely thick. The argument here is not about compensation. It is about tapping up.
Spot on,however - as an employee of Aberdeen Football Club now; all that Craig Brown has to do is to say that HE phoned ABERDEEN -as suggested in the papers- and that would pretty much put an end to the whole situation.There needs to be some form of proof - obviously if CB had a contract that expired for instance 31/7/2011 then the sudden departure would raise more eyebrows but as it stands without such an implement in place it is no different to a situation where an employee of Primark sees an advert for a job in BHS for 50p more per hour.Was that tapping,or just advertising(define indirect and direct - very broad terminology)...that employee was on a very similar contract to CB at Motherwell so theres one simple issue already. It's a very very difficult situation to prove,technically you are correct and i for one would like to agree but proving it is always the very very difficult part i am afraid.
-
As already said they did have a contract! Their gentleman's agreement was just that, a legally binding contract.
Yes,this - in employment terms. This does not however mean any compensation can be seeked when someone leaves one job for another. The point i think most people are getting upset about.
End of the day,if you have a specific contract for a set length of time it is harder to break than the traditional form of contract that you are refering to,where-by it can be broken at any time within a notice period or resignation.
-
So I'm looking forward to hearing in a bit more detail how these events transpired and how the club view it.
My concern is that you might not though,i don't think that they have a great deal more to say after the official statement.
Look end of the day it doesn't really matter if someone is one a contract or not, with regards to them staying or not. However - after first knocking back Aberdeen you think that Boyle would have acted straight away and offered them a wee contract for the next season.
However, he didn't, and as much as it had no bearing on the eventual outcome of Brown and Knox's exit - it would have been nice to gain a few quid from their departure.
-
The only problem with this is that the rules state a 'written contract' must be in place before Aberdeen could be accused to 'tapping up' - technicality yes, but none the less so binding. Motherwell would need to PROVE a written contract,something that i doubt is/was in place. That's the problem. I'm not saying that Motherwell should have been out offering three year deals to anyone,but even a years contract shows better stability.
-
I don't particularly want to go to in depth with this argument because it's another saga that scottish football does not need at this minute in time.
Having looked at both John Boyles claims and those of Mr Milne in the press over the past two days - something is glaringly obvious.
Motherwell,it's board of directors and everyone else in a position of power have absolutely noone to blame but themself in this matter.
Yes, i am quite willing to believe that Brown and Knox were giving it the gentlemens agreement pish but look - Boyle wouldn't run any other business deal without signed contracts so he cannot very well complain about losing out in this scenario.
The loyal old man image is out the window, it wasn't an SOS call from Boyle for the motherwell job - Brown and Knox were touted for the job,and Boyle used it to his advantage to out Gannon.
Knowing that this touting was how Brown and Archie went about business should have made Boyle realise what he was on to without written contracts - plums,and that's what he will get in a court of law aswell.
The Spl may punish Aberdeen for breaking the good spirit of the game but they can't and won't do anything legally.
Yes Motherwell fans were lied to, but not just by Brown and Knox, but by their own Board of Directors who once again failed to do anything when the cards were laid out in front of them. Feel sorry for the fans - yes, for Motherwell FC - NO.
With certain key players coming toward the end of contracts etc i would hope that MFC will act on this basis because as it stands, losing a few of these key players might not necessarily mean the worst for Motherwell, we've seen in previous years that Motherwell always seem to pull something out the bag in regard to renewing their ranks. However losing these players IS a big deal,and it IS a risk and without the correct,shrewed managment team in place it is a perilous situation - one that Well fans would do without after a few years of a revolving door in the managers office.
Now don't get me wrong,i can't Boyle bash to much- things are very difficult in Scottish football and infact, Scotland as a whole right now. I know there isn't any cash and accept that perhaps further cuts need to be made. All im saying is that they need to be managed correctly.
Obviously i hope it works out,but Boyle must now show his worth and appoint someone who will get the club through a very very difficult period ahead rather than be sidetracked fighting for pennies from Milnes table.
-
By the way my first post on this thread was a joke
If you are in any doubt dig up the thread on the infamous game at Pittodrie! Anyway I still hate the wee sac!!
...t'was rather an obvious joke,or either a VERY elaborate plan haha. Just to clear up - my post certainly wasn't about your comment.
-
Never really understood the pedo chants maself. Being a pedo is one of the worst things you could be in society - Craig Brown, as much as you might not like him right now is far from being a fucking peado - him or any other previous managers for that matter(with the obvious exceptions). On that basis chanting someone is a pedo is hardly going to cause them any bother.
If someone called me a pedo i'd probably laugh - on the simple basis that the truth is what hurts people,and as i am not infact a pedo...i wouldn't give a fuck.
Always thought it was a rather boring and un-inventive chant made by arseholes.
Buy aye....batter in. Nae skin off my nose.
-
As for Collins and the clamour for him to be quoted for the job? Really dont understand the thinking behind that one at all.
x2
Player's Training Regimes...
in Club Chat
Posted
From what i remember having working at two different premier league football teams was that the players usually done some training and then sat down for lunch about 12/1pm.(supplied by both clubs at the times i was there)
After that the players fucked off home......end of story,some played the xbox/playstation for an hour before heading up the road. Work done.
Yeah some players did frequent Uppercrust instead of eating the lunch put on by the club - always found that a bit weird myself but they always tried to keep it under wraps as if it was a top secret mission for chips and curry. (hardly the brightest bunch mind you)
Personally i think the way players are brought up abroad and have been for years in academys etc made them more professional. The Ajax youth team wouldnt get away wie a fly sausage roll but they were trained and schooled completely - similar to what arsenal are now doing and many other top clubs.
Obviously Motherwell players, mainly due to the size of the club - are not going to be top of the tree athletes and im sure noone expects them to be either - However, there are times when i think they should be a big more professional. Surprised to hear that about Murray Park - they were very very strict on diet etc under Mcleish from my experiences but god knows what is happening in that place now with cutbacks etc. Shame too because that facility should be churning out top of the range athletes like your Ajax or Arsenal with the equipment in there.
End of the day - the attitude of footballers in this country is ... ... Shocking, and to be honest - lazy. That is why most of them never make it anywhere else outwith Scotland. It's an attitude problem deep rooted for some reason.
My only question would be, £1000 p/w - hope you wern't refering to many Motherwell players wie that sum
Players themself need to take a look in the Mirror. Noone at the very top these days goes out bevvying regularly or eats shite. Until about a year ago i was still in fairly regular contact with Arthur Numan who even after he stopped playing was probably fitter than the majority of SPL players just now. He was always looking after what he was eating and made sure his young kids did to. It was a lifestyle choice for him because he was so used to it. The difference is he played at the very top level of the game - sometimes i think (outwith ability) lifestyle has a huge part to play in not just physical but mental fitness.