livivoice

Hadn't any intention of continuing the dialogue but as you specifically asked for details on Aberdeen fans invading the park on SCF day last year, you can find any amount of pictures and accounts you want from all the main newspapers specifically PA . Occurs at full time and after Aberdeen's equaliser. As for the goading of Celtic fans ( albeit not of the stark nature of Rangers fans last Sunday) this was commented upon by various radio broadcasters such as RS as well as the view that the Celtic fans had ignored the incursion perhaps seeing it as simple ribaldry--- oh the contrast ! Feel free to checking it out. The fact is that it pretty well debunks your misplaced assumption that Celtic fans would have reacted . But I suspect even with this evidence you'll find some way of saying " aye but" !!

You really are trying too hard to ignore the facts to suit your narrative. Firstly you don't comment on the fact that Rangers fans invaded the park when they thought they had scored and indulged in goading of the Celtic fans. Did you forget this? More importantly the Celtic fans didn't react. Furthermore you overlook the fact that once the Rangers fans attempted to attack the Celtic fans after the penalties the latter resisted the goading. Lets be thankful they didn't. As for the Celtic fans having the form you refer to which ofc is not inaccurate, you dont note the facts that Rangers fans have on many more occasions over the years invaded pitches. The list is endless, examples of which include a League Cup final in mid 60's, Scottish Cup final in 1969, Newcastle in 1969/70, Scottish Cup final in 1980 and in more recent times when Rangers fans brought a halt to a game at Fir Park when playing Jock Wallace's Motherwell. In all instances Rangers had either lost or were losing. Spot the pattern? Could of course add Manchester when they caused untold damage to that city but what's the point. Let me repeat the Celtic fans who surged the gates, caused damage and left disgraceful graffiti deserve every condemnation. But when it comes to the aftermath on Saturday it is patently wrong to say the Celtic fans are the main culprits. Finally, you might want to ask yourself why in a much more important game the Celtic fans didn't charge the Aberdeen fans after penalties following last season's Scottish Cup final. In short he contrast with Rangers fans last Sunday is stark. No more comments from me on this subject. Anyway let's get back to this coming Saturday when I'm sure whatever our differences we will be rooting for a Motherwell win.

A look at your posts over some time re the uglies clearly shows an attempt to minimise the awfulness of RFC. Walk like a duck comes to mind!! Yesterday's aftermath is a case in point in that you blame Celtic supporters when even the dogs in the street can see the Rangers fans where in attack mode . Celtic fans although they shouldn't have invaded the park were largely celebratory. And of course I don't recall Celtic supporters attacking Rangers players!!! I suggest you fully brief yourself on RFC as even the most basic analysis shows that it remains a cornerstone of bigotry in the 21st century. For example this is seen by them continuing to play in orange strips when this colour is nowhere to be found in their official colours. RFC clearly knows its support base . And aside from their ' values' we can't forget their liquidation resulting from their evidenced cheating of HMRC and indeed other clubs ( including us) from points, trophies and European places. Any other club would have been put out of existence. Yup, Celtic and many of its supporters are distasteful but they are manifestly not as disagreeable as the blue lot no matter how much you might want to disagree. Finally, when posting in the future you might want to remember the great journalist Ian Archer's description of RFC and its support " As the permanent embarrassment and the occasional disgrace". Never a truer word.

Apart from the position that there is no certainty in football I'm surprised of your view considering we have already drawn away with Celtic , Aberdeen, Hibernian, St Mirrren and ran Rangers very close at Ibrox. Not forgetting of course we have already beaten Hearts at Tynie. Do these results not make you feel less certain?

A wee word of caution about QOS. Saw them in a friendly against Livi a couple of weeks ago. Although they lost 2-0 at Livi they actually showed up pretty well. Apart from conceding a very early and late goal they held their own and could easily have scored. Don't know the name of the guy but the number 15 on the left wing impressed with his speed and strength. Yup, I expect us to win but not in a canter.

I think I read somewhere that David Devine having been on loan at Alloa had now joined them permanently. Pity about Atchison as I thought he could have done something for us.

Yup, Hearts results against Aberdeen and Hibs are impressive but by way of contrast I saw them against Livi recently and found them pedestrian. Since then they got overrun by Rangers and failed to impress against Accies. Don't necessarily see us taking anything against them but I certainly don't see a hiding.

Usually, I would have agreed with this but sadly can't as the boy's form has dropped off a cliff to the extent that many of the fans of a below average Hibernian regard him as the worst signing in many a year. As a follower of Scotland Under 21's I can also say that Scott having begun the current campaign is now entirely off the selection radar. Many people have theories on why his profile has diminished. But as a prospect to improve our team? Sadly, not for me.

Motherwell Twitter has KVV and Tierney on the bench. BBC page doesn't? Strange.

How to win friends and influence people has never been your strong point has it? Instead, your arrogance leaves you looking a bit silly. Why not just accept people can have a different point of view to yours without putting them down. Try it . You don't rate O'Hara. That's fine but for me ( in my humble opinion) I feel he is more than able to play on the left of a midfield 3 alongside ' roadtested' Donnelly and Slattery. As for Cornelius he will I suspect be someone we can count on next season and beyond but for the next 2 games I feel we will need stronger and more experienced alternatives. Just my opinion.

From a very reliable source I hear SOD's injury is not as bad as first feared and that he has targeted the United game for his return. If however his recovery slows it may be that the County game is more realistic. Time will tell.

No need for me to state the obvious that we are very poor at the moment and that skillful we aint. It is what it is. But regardless of this we find ourselves incredibly with a good chance of Euro footie. Because of this and the benefits to the club this would bring i.e finance, prestige and ability to attract players , I feel the club has to give itself the best possible chance in the upcoming games ( particularly Utd and County). Therefore, and in the absence of high skill levels, I feel we need to draw on experience , maturity and old fashioned dog eat dog determination. For me therefore ,starting Saturday, the likes of Cornelius, Goss, Efford and despite his recent improvement Tierney should be nowhere near the starting 11. Instead , we need a midfield 3 of Slattery, Donnelly and O' Hara and a forward 3 of Woolery, Shields and ( hopefully fit) Roberts. Hearing that SOD might be back for Saturday and SSJ too this is a team which would be able to physically impose itself on what is a youngish Utd. Yes, a team certainly not awash with skill but instead has the capacity to get in the trenches. That is all we have and it may be enough .

Sad to report that Frank has passed away. Fans of a certain age will remember him as Jock Wallace's assistant back in the day.

Didn't Brian Mc Laughlin get sent off after some ' underhand' behaviour by a certain Gordon Strachan?

Of our starting 11 last night there was only 1 Scot ( Kelly). Is this the first time this has ever happened ? Also has there been a time when we've had no Scots starting? Regardless , it's a sign of the times and totally different from when I started watching us back in the day

I agree with a lot you say but a bit of credit is due Goodwin who said it would have been a travesty if his team had won last night. Other managers , including GA, are not often as fair minded.

Re Lamie/ Sondre chat this is as good a discussion as I've read for a while on this site. As a contribution and from a very informed source at the club who I trust, the simple explanation is that GA does not rate Lamie . Remember GA did not sign Lamie . Therefore the Lamie/ Sondre debate is I feel pretty academic. Same source claims that GA wished to punt Watt last summer and that despite TW's greatly improved form their ' frosty' relationship ensured Watt's departure. As for Kelly's booking yesterday I think this was because he threw the ball away.

To be fair Bevis was clearly hobbling at the end of the County match.

And of course it would have been 7 if Vigurs had made it

Sorry to disagree re Barry on loan at QOS. After an encouraging start as CH he was quickly sidelined when found wanting. This was all the more significant as QOS were desperately trying to avoid relegation . They clearly didn't see him as part of their plans . Presently though as a midfielder I see steady improvement and last night he certainly wasn't the poorest performer.

Different takes on international situation. I certainly go with the First Minister of Wales who is clear in his view that it is the Westminster government that is the " outlier" when compared to other countries ( including Scotland). He adds that Johnson as seen by his disregard of the advice of scientists and medical experts who advocate the retention or increase in restrictions does not regard the health of English people as his priority but rather keeping his backbenchers happy . The next few days should be interesting.

Al B argues his case well but I'd suggest we all look at the comments of the Welsh First Minister who hits the nail on the head regarding the buffoon that is Johnson and his acknowledgement that Wales as with Scotland have got it about right

Your not alone. Watt is merely doing what we would all do .

Good summary Weeyin. Only thing that I'd add is that if Watt stays it's important that we don't ' cut our nose off despite our face' by not playing him. Watt is one of the main reasons why we are lying 4 th.

Unsure if reported elsewhere but suggestions around that O'Hara has had set back and could be out for several months