Gadgey

At first, I thought you were just a wind up merchant doing some trolling. It would seem that in actual fact, you really are a proper roaster.

It looks like your personal vendetta against Robinson is beginning to gather momentum. I must admit, I don’t think he’ll see the season out at this rate. However, I’ve asked you this question before, but who would you replace him with? If indeed we do have players with no technical ability, then those limitations will still be there when there’s a new man in charge.

Nope and neither should any Scottish provincial club manager for coming out with the same patter. What sets Killie apart is that they have an outstanding coach who has the best pedigree in the league. You don’t sustain such a long career in such high profile jobs with such high profile clubs in the most high profile league in the world by running your mouth off. History has proven that all who do, finally get lynched. With regards Motherwell’s place in the food chain, sadly, all evidence (be it historical, attendance, resources available, club structure, balance sheet) shows that we are a lower half top division team. It’s a fine margin between glory and disaster. Perversely, for a club like Motherwell, avoiding both could be measured as a successful season. Premier League survival is not a god given right and I’d far rather have a Motherwell manager who recognises that and can provide necessary incentive to players and fans alike that his team can achieve it.

And the positives from today are?????

I think McCann has shown several times now that he has no class. Surely his jacket is on a shoogly peg. Tremendous win for us today.

I get what you say, but if the youth were truly knocking at the door, there would not have been the necessity to source players from elsewhere. I would expect that was scrutinised when the purse strings were being asked to be loosened.

Would that be the same season when we were relegated despite having having sellable young assets in the team? Honestly, other than Lawless, who was the last youth player to be released by Motherwell and managed to carve a sufficiently good career that proved the club wrong? I don’t disagree with your point about the necessity of making the academy a success. You’re correct about Craggs and co, you’re correct about attracting new talent. What you, I nor anyone else outside the footballing side of the clubs employ cannot be correct in saying is that the management team are blocking the progress of our current youth. We fans honestly don’t know how good or ready the lads you mention are. Maybe an alternative theory (which is all we have without the facts) is that the loans and one year contracts are there as place holders for the lads coming through? That would forward thinking. Given the variables (because footballers are not objects), it can’t be articulated in a business plan so I guess we have to have faith and see what happens.

I would agree with all of that. Johnson may well turn out to be stellar but like many before him (including Moult), he will require a period of adjustment. As others have said, we don’t know the intricacies of the day to day i.e. wages paid, what goes on the training ground and the group dynamics of the squad. I am prepared to wait and see. Those returning from injury may also require some time to adjust and to form relationships/partnerships. As painful as it may be, we may have to anticipate some torture before the correct blend is found. I am personally hopeful of a Bowman/Johnson partnership. Based on nothing (because like I said, in terms of day to day facts, I know nothing), but Bowmans endeavour is endearing and Johnson looks also to be a grafter with an eye for goal.

To be fair Steelboy, that is a bit of a cop out and fairly obvious side step by stating the bleeding obvious. The club will of course go through the motions of a recruitment process and fans will of course speculate when the time comes. We are in the here and now and whilst we have a manager in post, your response is merely a futile attempt at derision and in the eyes of many, will make you look a bit of a muppet. Yeh, you are one of the resident ner do wells but every forum needs one. That is your role but being a muppet is beneath you. You can do better. To be clear, I’m not a Robbo must stay campaigner and he does indeed have some work to do. We have all however heard the phrase “be careful what you wish for”. In compliance with your post, it is a natural train of thought for a rational thinker to think of reasonable alternatives when considering termination of the status quo. Hence the question to Yodo (cheers for the answer) who has been a consistent “Robbo must go voice” and indeed to any other who has been intimating that Robbo’s time is either up or in grave jeopardy. Yodo-other than his sudden and unexpected availability, is Sammon out the only reason for suggesting Kenny Miller?

Here Yodo, seeing as you dingied me last week, I’ll ask again. You’re consistent in your rallying cry to have Robinson sacked. Who do you want to replace him with?

There’s a lot of pissed off people on here about where things are at but at the moment (not yet at least), there aren’t many calling for his head. You've been consistent in wanting him gone so fair do’s. A genuine question.....you want Robbo out. Who would you want in to replace him and get a tune out of this squad?

I’m sat by Turkish pool side sipping mojito and reading through wave after wave of negativity and thinking meh.... things could be worse. As an English exile, I can’t honestly quantify the full extent of the problem and challenge the current manager has created or faces in the coming months. I’m old enough to remember some really hopeless Motherwell teams. Teams that should have been relegated and saved by external events. I remember Harri Kampman. What being an exile does is give some objectivity. I have been going to watch English football for years now. Over the years, I’ve regularly been to championship and league 2 games. Because my boy stuck on Charlton (now in league 1), he, my daughter and I are now season ticket holders. Now there is a club that can give Motherwell a run for their money in the “it could be worse” stakes. They have an owner who has a proven track record of asset stripping football clubs. Charlton only had three managers between 1982 and 2006. They were homeless for years and only returned to the Valley through well organised fan power. In little more than four years, Roland Duchatelet (look him up) has churned through 12 managers. Lee Bowyer remains interim manager since March. His regime has never been shy to refer to fans as customers leaving the support base angry and alienated. He’s had the club up for sale for almost a year now and stands to make a profit over purchase price. He’s sold every bit of talent during his reign at cut price, has moved sub standard players around his syndicate of clubs (Tony Watt for example) and signed the likes of Josh Magennis to be the only striker on the books last year. All the while, fan boycotts have seen season tickets drop by a third since he took over. Fan protests used to be regular at the ground and there has been coordinated demonstrations in Duchatelet’s home town with Sint-Truiden and Standard Liege (also owned by Duchatelet along with Ujpest in Hungary). Talks of a takeover have stalled, 7 first team have left and there is no money available for new players. There is no board in place, no CEO. One part time director remains. Last week, Bowyer debuted an u23 and couldn’t fill the bench against Sunderland and yesterday another u23 got a debut. They have a good academy and that fuck it’s there. It will be off the back of this academy that Duchatelet intends to yield his profit. It’s rumoured the reason the takeover has stalled is because he wants to retain ownership of the Valley because it is prime SE postcode real estate. The risk of the club being homeless once again is not wholly unrealistic. Now, yes, Robbos hoofball must be pretty fuckin dire to watch but if I’m being honest, so is the rest of Scottish football. The SPFL standard flits between lower/middle league 1 (our city clubs) and lower league 1 and upper league 2 (the rest of us). All things considered, we are a big fish in our pond and would be lost in the plethora of provincials that litter the English lower and non leagues. Motherwell have a recent proven track record of doing incredibly well with what they’ve got. Yes, it is a piss poor start to the season and yes things need to improve. However, I have seen worse at fir park and all things in perspective.....it could be a lot worse!!!

Just read this on a Wigan site. Andy P I assume? Nice touch. https://threeamigoswigan.com/2018/08/06/a-motherwell-fans-view-of-cedric-kipre/ A MOTHERWELL FAN’S VIEW OF CEDRIC KIPRE Posted by JJ (Tony) in Fan Views and tagged with Cedric Kipre, Ivory Coast, leicester city, Motherwell, PSGAugust 6, 2018 On Friday Wigan Athletic announced the signing of Cedric Kipre from Motherwell on a three-year contract. The fee was not disclosed but reports suggest it could reach £1m including add-ons. The 21-year-old is the third Motherwell player to sign for Latics in the last 20 years following on from Lee McCulloch and Steve McMillan. On signing the 6 ft 3 in tall player Paul Cook commented: “Cedric is a strong, powerful and athletic defender, who we have been monitoring some time. He is at a great age to develop his game after a really good season with Motherwell and I am looking forward to working with him.” Motherwell manager Stephen Robinson opined: “Although it’s with a heavy heart that we lose Cédric, his progress over the last year has been remarkable and it’s little wonder English Championship clubs have been circling. He has the potential to go all the way to the top in my opinion and we very much wish him well in his future career. He will always be welcome back at Fir Park.” Kipre went on to make his Latics debut against Sheffield Wednesday the following day, looking calm and assured at the centre of defence. Cedric Kipre was born in Paris of Ivorian parents and played youth football at Paris St Germain. At the age of 17 he joined Leicester City, playing for their U18 and U21 teams in his first season. He next played for the U23 side but could not break into the senior squad. In September 2015 Kipre went on a month’s loan to Corby Town in the National League North, making an impressive debut against Boston United. Manager Tommy Wright commented “Cedric looked the real deal. He was strong, powerful, very good technically on the ball and he was a breath of fresh air.” Kipre went on to play two more games for the Steelmen. In the summer of 2017 after being released from Leicester Kipre went to Motherwell for a trial, impressing enough to be offered a one-year contract. He became a regular starter for his new club, which had a successful season in finishing in 7th place and reaching the finals of the Scottish Cup and the Scottish League Cup. Kipre made 49 appearances for the Steelmen, together with a debut for Ivory Coast U-23 side in March 2018 against Togo. In order to learn more about Kipre’s time at Motherwell we contacted Andrew Patersonof the Steelmen Online site (https://www.steelmenonline.co.uk). Here’s over to Andrew: We knew it would happen. We knew he would go. We just hoped we’d have him with us for a little bit longer. If that reads almost obituary like it kind of feels like it is. Our Cédric. Gone! If only to pastures new thankfully rather than the big fitba pitch in the sky. So what can I can tell you about Cédric? Well, in truth when he lined up on trial in pre-season last summer it was his compatriot Bira Dembele who actually impressed more and there was a tinge of disappointment when he elected to return to France rather than join us. How much truth there was in Motherwell manager Stephen Robinson’s claim some months later that he was always going to sign Cédric I don’t know, but there’s more than one of our support who think back and breathe a sigh of relief that Motherwell couldn’t meet Dembele’s financial demands. It would be fair to say that Kipré’s rise in prominence was rapid. The thought was that he would settle into life in Scotland in Motherwell’s U20 side and perhaps as the season progressed he might breakthrough with the odd appearance here and there. In fact he played more minutes in domestic games in Scotland than any other top flight player. Initially signing on a one year contract it was immediately apparent that the club had to tie him down on a longer deal and just weeks into the 2017’18 season he had signed an extension on better terms. It would be extended again in April 2018. But why? Cédric settled into Scottish football instantly. From the minute he was given his opportunity against Queen’s Park at Hampden in the League Cup he never looked back. His stature meant he wouldn’t be outmuscled by anybody but there is more to his game than just physicality and bodying opponents. He has pace too and applied it occasionally to get himself and his team-mates out of trouble and also when demonstrating his willingness to bring the ball forward whenever an opportunity arose. At just twenty-one there are still flaws in his game of course. He was on occasion susceptible to a losing track of a long aerial ball hit over the top but over the piece it was incredible to think we were watching a player that hadn’t played a single first team game before signing for us. It was more than just his footballing ability that endeared Kipré to the Motherwell support though. We are fortunate that the media team at Fir Park are absolutely terrific in bringing us insights about our team. Over the course of the season we warmed to a young guy who was quiet, unassuming and humble. A boy who could laugh at himself and was never slow in getting involved in team bonding activities. He quickly became a huge fans favourite and it’s sad to think that never again are the Motherwell Bois likely to launch into a rendition of the Kipré, Kipré” war cry. A chant he even sang himself when he featured on “Up the ‘Well” a club song reproduced by local band The Banter Thiefs to mark Motherwell reaching the Scottish Cup Final. Memories? Plenty. It remains a travesty he was red-carded in the League Cup Final against Celtic and his further red-card against the same opposition was equally ridiculous. We’ll remember fondly his single goal for the club against Dundee where the celebrations amongst supporters were going on a good few minutes after the game had re-started. He had threatened to score a few times so when he did everyone was just ecstatic to see him finally do it.

I don’t know, if today is anything to go by, there will several lost causes to be chasing

Just watched the managers post match interview and he mentioned that he thought Bigi wanted to head south but he’s now “back in the squad and going for it”. Perhaps we’ll all get to see if he is the class act that so many on here want him to be and crave.

Why is Tony Watt a better prospect than Sammon? He’s done nothing for years. Having watched him frequently let games pass him by and be frustrated by his laissez faire attitude, I’d take an inexpensive grafting Sammon every time. Also, what’s the evidence to suggest, SR doesn’t want to develop the youth?

Kmac- Isn’t that reliant upon the youth being capable of the step up? it could be argued that the 1yr deals for the likes of Grimshaw and Rose are to see through until the youth are blooded on loan and then ready for the step up in 12 months time. The difficulty with what you suggest is that us punters don’t see the day to day and only have snippets of match time to go on. The commuting to one higher wage has been done before. Yeh, it got us to a cup final, 2nd and 3rd place finishes but still brought no extra revenue and necessitated a huge rebuild. It also saw us signing some really really bad players to pollyfill.

So Kmac, you want the club to build on the momentum of last season, recruit players that can play a bit and bring some of those hampden floaters through the gate and entertainingly win more games than we lose all without breaking the wage structure. As asked before, how does the club do that?

Debts or no debts, the going rate selling prices from the Scottish leagues are lower than we would want them to be. This is largely due to the general standard of Scottish Premier football being perceived as inferior to much of the lower English leagues. It’s harsh but it’s true. It’s a buyers market and it’s partly why there are sell on clauses.

To be fair, I don’t think you’ve been hounded. There’s been conflicting views put to yours and from my perspective, you’ve given as good as you’ve got (keyboard gangster caption?). So, if I’m understanding the point your making, you want to support a team that has ambition and doesn’t settle. I get that. It’s a ball ache to watch the cycle of rebuild but we’re used to that, the title of this thread and it’s predecessor is indicative of that. Maybe some of us are apathetic. So a genuine question.... We know the financial limitations of the club. We have comparably minimal cash turnover and outstanding debts to benefactors. We want to push on for consistent 4th, 5th or 6th league placement. What does the club need to do in order to achieve this?

I hadn’t read this thread or seen the news of Cedric leaving until having a shufty on here. I’m glad there’s some common sense prevailing as 3 or so pages ago there was some proper slavering getting done. Yes, losing Kipre at this time is a great loss to the team. Yes, he will be difficult to replace but the club recognised that when they started signing him up on better deals. I and anyone else who wasn’t a half wit knew then that Cedric would be gone sooner rather than later. I can only assume that Kmac is young enough to not remember the Boyle “we are going to be Scotlands third force” era? i also assume that those calling for an expansion on player quality are unaware of the financial restrictions imposed upon a fan owned club of our size? Tried and tested costs money we don’t have. Money we can’t generate without trading players at a profit. On the topic of profit. Cedric has been one the best bits of business I have known Motherwell to have. We’ve done everything we promised him and our player/agent marketing machine gets a fresh story sell. However, all this “he’s gonnae be worth £9m this time next hear” is fanciful to say the least. For example, Charlton sold Ezri Konsa to Brentford for £3m this summer. He’s a home grown centre back with footballing ability and pace to burn. He was a member of the England U19&20 wc winning squads and played circa 30 games last season at CB, RB and CDM in league 1 never once looking out of place. The point I’m making is that pound for pound, he’s a better player than Cedric Kipre on all counts at this time and is an Englishman playing in the English leagues. Cedric will do well but will have very tough competition in the division he’s going to.

If the quoted sun article is anything to go by, it isn’t £1m plus add ons.

Yodo and Lawsteelman from Fir Park Corner can bring the glow sticks and mogadon. http://boards.footymad.net/showthread.php?t=38225210

Didn’t Robinson say the other week that it would take the new signings time to adjust to the pace of the Scottish game? It’s possible that this is the reason and we see more of Gorrin as time progresses ?

Agreed, Dom Thomas was a terrific example of that.