Andy_P
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Posts posted by Andy_P
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We need to concentrate on the youngsters, and have to look at better ideas than simply letting them in for free a couple of times.
The pricing for family/juveniles at Fir Park looks about spot on to me, so I don't really think pricing needs to be looked at.
Under a tenner for a kid, and under £30 for a family ticket is ideal as far as i'm concerned.
We need to come up with other ideas to make Motherwell more approachable and recognisable than other SPL clubs.
One thing i've picked up on from young family members is the fact that they "don't know who plays for Motherwell".
Most Scottish football fans know who Kris Boyd, Aiden McGeady, Nacho Novo etc is, and they can identify with certain players.
We need to find a way to do that. Some success could be found in making our players seem more like actual people to younger fans.
We should have young fans who want to get a certain name & number on their shirts at the start of every season.
How many forum members here who have 'Well supporting kids know who their favourite player is? And if so, why is that player their favourite?
We need to think of serious ways to get kids involved with the club in a fun way. I'm already aware of the various support programmes that we have at Fir Park, and I think they are top class, but if we want kids to come to Fir Park on a regular basis we need to think outside the usual area of ticket pricing/free tickets.
Any ideas folks?
Some more visibility around Lanarkshire might help. Does anyone remember back in the early 80's we had a sponsorship deal with whoever it was in they days that had a big double decker bus decked out in claret and amber with a Motherwell badge and possibly fixtures on it? Think it did the 211 between Airdrie and Hamilton. I would have been about 8 then and it captured my imagine sufficiently to have my Dad chase about trying to find it when it first started.
What about more of the "Men of Steel" style images that were used to promote the new strip in the summer or the Forbes "Welcome to Motherwel" styel. I've seen advertising boards about with "Happy 40th Birthday Rab" and the likes on it so they might not be as expensive as first imagined.
Doesn't have to be complicated. Picture of the picture looking mean and menacing. His number to the right. and underneath Lanarkshire's Premier Club. At the very least its bound to wind the Accies and Airdrie fans right up!
In terms of boosting the crowd I think it largely boils down to us existing punters to try to entice/cajole/drag by the scruff of the neck, the family/neighbours/friends of friends along to the games with us.
I use my own experience as an example with the wee guy Darryl who was ocasionally to be found about my place being the son of the good lady's pal. Single parent family with his maw having no interest in fitba he had no avenue to get to any games and was in danger of supporting Celtic simply because they were on his telly the most.
Took him along the year we were saved due to Falkirk's ground. Flash forward he's a season ticket holder and probably has as many friends and acquaintances amongst the 'Well support than I have these days.
Its difficult at times when you want a swally, its costly when you are striving to feed the burgeoning addiction but I do believe its the best way of trying to get someone hooked.
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Brown and Knox is certainly fine by me, at least in the short-term. I doubt you can ask for a more experienced and knowledgable interim management team. Knox has been a lot of places including Rangers (when they were decent) Scotland, Man. Utd and Blackburn (albeit the later not a great success). Brown for me has always been a manager who grinds out results from ver little, the fact is, he isnt phenomenally succesfull in terms of trophies, but at the same time, he is not bad at all.
I've always been a fan of Craig Brown so pleased with that one on a temporary basis like you've pointed out its Knox that's the eye opener for me.
You've mentioned the bigger teams there PID but in addition to that - and perhaps more relevant to us - is that he has a whack of experience of Scottish football at the likes of Aberdeen, Dundee and to a lesser extent Forfar as well. He really has dealt with players at all levels across the spectrum and in all scenarios.
I don't know about the longer term, that remains to be seen but in the interim I'm pretty happy with the speed and the choice the club have made with Brown and Knox.
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As for the problem undeserved expectations and criticism, well there is also a problem with undeserved praise, hero worship. Frankly too many supporters have been in some kind of thrawl to Jim Gannon, when he hasn't really done much. Gannon, unless we go into complete freefall, deserves at least a season to show us what he can do but at the same time fans must be allowed to show that we won't stand by and have our club used as a sort of experiment.
Gannon increasingly worries me. He is very arrogant, stuck in his ways and stubborn. Has anyone heard him take the blame for anything? It's the press, it's the referees, it's the players - he is unaccountable to the media or the fans. When we lose it's not the tactics or the formation, there is always an excuse.
That's what really worries me, not the defeats, its the fact cannot or will not accept that he might have to adapt his cosy little football coaching theories to fall into line with the real world. At the end of the day Gannon will walk away and it will be your 'club culture' that will have to pick up the pieces.
I agree with much of this.
When it comes to Jim Gannon I'm increasingly a bit of a doubting Thomas. I've said before I back the long-term plans to build the club, the promotion of the youngsters, though it has it faults - the desired style of play. What has been achieved in the first six months of his reign has been much much more than I dared hope for.
But with each passing week I have less and less confidence that he has the inclination to stick around and actually see it through. Maurice Malpas has been brought up a couple of times this weekend. Its not Malpas I see comparison's with its Eric Black.
Gannon like Black is an intelligent and well educated coach. Black clearly felt the tools he had been given to work with were insufficient and its obvious Gannon feels the same way. I saw Black a couple of weeks before we went into administration at the AGM that year and it was obvious he regretted coming to Motherwell and looked completely miserable and was looking for a way out. His get-out came when we went into administration just a couple of weeks later.
Worryingly I get exactly the same feeling from Gannon.
Gannon has set out an exciting future but much as I want to believe that if he will lead us there, and that there is that bigger picture than recent poor form, I can't away from the feeling that we have more immediate troubles looming that will render talk of bigger pictures irrelevant.
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I don't know so much about the next two games shaping our season but certainly between now and the end of January with what happens both on and off the park will give us an indication of what the battleground is going to be like at the business end of the season.
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This just seems like an extension of the round in circles "I don't like booing" v "I'm entitled to boo" debate which took up about 4 pages of the St Johnstone match thread.
I don't particularly like the booing of the team, but I feel folk are more than entitled to if they feel its warranted but I'll tell you what - Nethertonwell fan you are calling for perspective - put in perspective I bet yesterday's booing pales into complete insignificance in comparison with being completely hung out to dry in public by your manager.
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Your thoughts.....
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John Hendry. Never got a game with Spurs because Klinsman kept him out.
Fair do's but he had been and gone a long time before we hit the 00's
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I note there are no quotes attached in the article but the hope would now be that there is someone else out there who is also interested who is prepared to match or better Aberdeen's offer meaning we get some extra dosh and Aberdeen get, well, fuck all really.
Can't see it mind you but would be amusing if someone else came in and turned his head at this stage.
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Celtic and their fans actually have a fantastic propaganda wing on the go that few can touch.
On one side every occasion possible we are reminded of how successful a club they are and how they have hundreds of thousands of award winning fans across the globe - the self-appointed Greatest Fans in the World no less. It is has said often enough that it has become gospel for those who wish to keep it going and for those who simply don't know better.
But then there is the more sinister the inbuilt inferiority/insecurity complex that has been handed down through the generations and built up by those whose means it suits. You simply can't say a bad word against without an accusation of an anti-Celtic agenda, sadly often accompanied by an anti-Irish or anti-catholic claim too. Going "boo" becomes construed as racial abuse of one of their players. Mocking an opposition player becomes xenophopbic and bigoted because they are so keen to find examples of it to back up their agenda that everyone is against them.
You don't need me to list the misdemeanours of their supporters - the list is lengthy - but where they have nailed it as soon as something does occur that could in anyway bring them in to disrepute or they pick up on something they don't particularly like they have an army of media and political allies that move swiftly into action until the issue has passed.
Witness the episode at Love Street a couple of years ago for example where the PA guy asked fans to refrain from singing offensive songs. Within hours the situation had turned on its head to the point that what their support was singing was deemed irrelevelent and the bad guy was the announcer who had dared to speak out.
Like fatcalf says I won't be losing any sleep over any accusations that are levied against us by any Celtic fan.
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If he wasn't done before, he is now. Petulant wee fuck.
I've been somewhere in the middle of some who seem to think O'Brien has been sensational and those who just can't find anything good to say about him but that's quite an interesting remark Neil.
It sticks in my mind right back in Gannon's first game against Llanelli when O'Brien, who was hardly having a startling game himself, got very visibly and audibly ripped into Steven Saunders.
I remember thinking that kind of stuff probably wouldn't be well received by Gannon and thought it was quite telling that within about a minute it was O'Brien and not Saunders who was hooked. I don't imagine a similar show of public frustration will be well received this time either.
I find it a wee bit of a shame with O'Brien that its another relationship between manager and player that seems to have gone awry as I felt he was contributing pretty well earlier in the campaign. But given we're at the start of a rebuilding job, if he's had his head turned by Aberdeen and is planning to head off soon it does seem sensible enough to get used to life without him and use him sparingly.
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Another couple of questions to get a feel for how folk view things after six months but with an eye on the future too.
If anyone wants any other specific questions stuck up, give me a shout and I can fire them up.
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Well we're about a week away from Jim Gannon's six month anniversary in charge. Thought it might be worthwhile for a wee poll to get an indicator about what's impressed you most and least about his time in charge thus far.
Over to you.....
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+1. Logged on this morning and was expecting this thread to have grown legs!
From my perspective it was a pretty enjoyable evening.
Thought it was well handled by Andy Devlin who ensured that all the panel members were given an opportunity to air their views and that it didn't solely end up with everything aimed at Gannon who would be the star attraction for most. Only fair given the wide and varied panel.
General topics discussed amongst other things included the pros and cons of summer football, youth development and the Scottish national team past and present.
As for MFC stuff two things grabbed my attention most. First was Gannon's revelation that he had declined to talk all teams who had enquired of his availability since coming to Fir Park when asked if he was going to be here for the long term. He initially seemed to take a wee bit of umbrage at the question as if his commitment was being called into question, before being swiftly assured that it was a fear of him departing that prompted the question. He responded well to that one reminding the audience that he owes John Boyle a debt of gratitude for taking him on when he was unemployed and considers himself a loyal and hard working employee.
The other when asked why he chose to play the likes of Meechan, McHugh and Pollock last Saturday when he had experienced players available were that they were better. He qualified that remark I felt while answering that question and a couple of other times by pointing out that he had to know if these boys were of a sufficient quality to be of use later in the season and that there was no better place to find out. He gave the example of having faith in Bob McHugh to take over from Lukas if he returns south.
Other stuff of note was the plan of succession he aimed to have in place where if one player goes another would be available to step in.......McCart admitted that the club let him go to Celtic on the proviso he didn't sign any of our youths. He tried his luck in the summer with McHugh and Slane but the club hunted him.......Gannon mentioned the conditioning work on Jamie Murphy......Gannon spoke of the discipline he demands on the park believing that fouls = free-kicks. Less free-kicks = less goals conceded = more points and less suspensions etc.
Probably a lot more you could add but that'll do for now.
As I say though a pretty good evening and look forward to the next one.
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I don't think Gannon's found Murphys most effective position yet to be honest but tomorrow is an ideal oppurtunity to put him up against somebody that is much slower (Broadfoot) than him and gain an advantage from it. As for Saunders he's been excellent so far at centre back and with Hutchinson a more than capable replacement for him there it would be worth shifting him out to right back as he can defend and Yassin can't. As for the games that Saunders has played Right Back he has always showed that he can get forward and get to the bye line to get crosses in (they can't be any worse than Yassins attempts either).
The opportunity to torment Broadfoot is an appealing one, but I would argue that Jamie Murphy has looked more involved and at ease in the first team over the last three or four games then he ever has.
I can't recollect who it was who believed that playing on the wing actually inhibited Murphy but recent evidence supports that theory. Where he's playing at the moment seems offer a best of all worlds scenario in that he has license to roam all over the park rather, using his pace and technique to beat players than be inhibited and more easily closed down on the wing.
It's Jamie Murphy's emergence in that role that has arguably been the death of O'Brien. He's tried O'Brien in that position on a handful of occasions and never quite cut it but Murph has taken to it like a duck to water and I'd be of a mind to give him further experience tomorrow at Ibrox.
But there's nothing to stop him dancing up the wing to waste time when we're a couple up with 10 minutes to go mind you....
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I thought Elliot and Delomeaux were specifically kept on to sell in the short term with a view to getting some money into the club quickly. Can't remember how much we got for him though.
He had the knack of being able to do very little in some games and still pop up with a few goals. Good luck to him wherever he ends up - even Accies!
As I recall Elliot made it very clear that he had no intention of extending his contract beyond his final year which as a result made it important, given the clubs financial climate at the time, to sell him on and get what they could for him ASAP before word got out and his value depriciated.
Delomeaux was also wanted by the club but his actions in the aftermath of the club going into administration lead to him being viewed as something of a bad apple and a disruptive influence in the dressing room as the club tried to consolidate. He too then was viewed then as someone they had to get off the books quickly.
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While it was a bit of a disappointment to have the lead at half-time and not come away with something I'm not buying this stuff about deserving to lose by 4, 5, 6 or whatever.
I've seen countless games against the Old Firm where we've not got what we've deserved so I'm certainly not going to beat myself up over the fact that they missed a few chances today. Its hardly a level playing field when it comes to resources so you take what you can from these games and shouldn't feel any guilt for it.
That said over the piece we didn't do enough I think to merit a point. As has already been said we'd a great spell between our equaliser and half-time but not else to shout about apart from that. Who knows if we could have held out a wee bit longer after half-time whether it would simply have been delaying the inevitable or whether they might have started to lose the place a bit.
Gannon seems to want to test the mettle of some of the youngsters in these games. That's Halsman, Meechan, Pollok and to a lesser extent McHugh who've been flung in against Celtic now. He'll know his players better than me. There's definitely an argument that as you're expected to lose there's nothing to be lost trying them out rather than in "must wins" but its a risky/brave/stupid strategy depending upon your viewpoint.
One win in eight is a pretty worrying statistic but a more positive one is that we'll have gone through consecutive games against the other top six teams and at the end of it have retained our place in the top half.
If the poor run of form continues beyond next Saturday then that's perhaps time for greater concern and reconsidering immediate goals but I've been quite happy that even though lost other teams have huffed and puffed too with Hearts, Aberdeen and St Mirren not able to take advantage.
A more pleasing set of after match comments for me too this evening with more focus on the game, the team and even alluding to the future too when speaking of this season and next. A pleasant and welcome change for me to read this than bitter exchanges about the media, SFA, referees or whoever.
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I don't know whether there's more to come or what we've seen in the early part of the season will be as a good as it gets but I do think Ross is due a bit more slack than some are willing to give him at the moment. He's still learning his trade in the top flight and is still pretty young.
I do like him myself. I think he has a decent range of passing and his ability to find the net is one that I don't think currently we are in a position to sniff at.
I can understand why he frustrates at times and clearly there are some questions about his physique and defensive capabilities. I would argue though that at this stage in his career, entitled as we are to make our feelings known, we try to emphasis the positives and try to help him flourish rather than become scared to attempt to some of the passes he currently does.
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We have a cracking big flag. Made up of 4 smaller flags, 3 of which are saltires with Motherwell badges in the middle. It was in Nancy next to the fountain and in Wales and has been at umpteen games over the years, but it generally it is a pain in the arse to take. That said, I think it might have to make an appearance again soon....
I've got a bag of accumulated flags going right back to my youth some of which, its perhaps a bit sad to admit, I have a fair amount of sentiment for.
Probably the first I have now looks more like a Jambos flag than a 'Well flag given how much the amber has faded over the past 25 years. Its in a shocker of a state having been chomped to bits by the hamster I got home from school in Primary Two - which gives another indication of how old it is. Couldn't ever bring myself to put it out though.
My Gran made a flag for our trip to the Faroes and has subsequently graced several European ties. I've got a few players photographed holding it aloft on some of the trips.
The one I generally take, on the rare occasion I do decide to take a flag, sounds very much like Milo's above. Three Saltires and three 'Well flags purchased from the 'Well shop sewn together to make a larger flag. Its that awkward size now that to make any bigger is going to require another six flags to keep it relatively square otherwise it'll look a bit daft being either really wide or really long.
On top of that I've got bags of flags that have been accumulated over the years at Cup Finals, Semi's and the like. Perhaps the best of these was an 81'82 First Division Championship flag which looks the business. Often wondered how many of them are still kicking around in lofts and sheds.
But aye, mon the flags!
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I think there's a lot of weighing up to be done at Fir Park between now and the start of the transfer window.
My first thoughts are that movement of players will be minimal and for new players to come in, others will have to go, and those coming in will most likely be on loan.
The manager's first task will be to try to hang on to what we have otherwise we'll seriously weakened in goals and upfront especially. He's already said he's keen to retain all three and having apparently discussed future planning with Boyle, one would assume that the club will come up the finance required to keep them if they and their clubs are keen to extend things.
The obvious one everybody reckons will go is McGarry but that's on the assumption that there's a club that wants him, otherwise unless MFC are prepared to come to a settlement then he's likely just to sit tight to the summer, get a wage for six months and then walk.
Then there's the O'Brien poser. With Humphrey and Slane both hopefuly going to be back come January and Jim out of contract come the summer is he worth the gamble of selling him on, hoping the aforementioned duo stay fit and using the proceeds to reinvest in the team be it this window or in the summer? How keen is he to commit to MFC or to go north? Though the power lies with the player to keep his options openl until the summer if he wishes, seems to me the question has to be asked of him soon.
With or without the possible monies received/saved from O'Brien/McGarry/others John Boyle has some pondering to do over John Ruddy. There's been the often mooted £250k deal, though I remain to be convinced this has ever been agreed and not just something that was speculated, repeated and has since become written in ink.
He has to consider whether a permanent deal for Ruddy would be a good long term investment or an expense that the club simply cannot afford with a transfer fee, likely top end wages to what most of the squad are one, reductions in budget for elsewhere in the team and perhaps most difficult poser for him by potentially taking another step down down that road we swore we would never go back down again.
But can he afford NOT to sign him and risk losing out on a potential wedge a few years down the line, seeing the squad weakened if someone else nicks him on loan or worse another Scottish club buys him and earns the beans in a couple of years time.
Sorry, loads of questions but no answers for you!
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Not seen anything of the game but the general consensus here and in the press is that we never really turned up, I just hope JG not letting anyone speak to the press is because he wants to fire them up for the Celtic game, I fear the worst if we turn in a similar performance.
C'mon 'Well lets break the telly hoodoo and make the pundits choke on thier criticisms.
Telly hoodoo's gone. We were live on TV when we beat Llanelli 3-0 down there. Granted it was on S4C but telly's telly
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Wasn't there so can't comment on the game itself. Was always going to be a tricky one so not a huge surprise that we've lost.
For me its a day we've kind of got away with it though. Someone expressed their disappointment earlier that Dundee Utd were winning but personally I'm still quite happy that we've lost and are still seven clear of the team in 7th. A wee sneaky win for the Accies when they play the Jambos would be ideal.
Only our second loss of the season coming in December, and that being defeat away to the team in 3rd place without the teams below us gaining any ground. Not ideal but I can live with that.
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Hearts
in Club Chat
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Your choice and thoughts please....