star sail

Sir Alex Ferguson. He could come in and wrestle the title off of Aberdeen in the last game of the season, with a 1 yard screamer from Craig Reid providing the winning goal.

I have fought the good fight on here, trying to provide positivity amongst all the negativity but I think sadly the writing is on the wall. I always thought that the turnaround would come but for whatever reason it simply has not worked. For the second time (Gannon being the first) what seems good in theory does not convert to practice. Really disappointing but a change is needed now. I can't help but feel that some of the players at our club have a lot to answer to however.

I seem to find myself quoting and replying to you a lot Ya Bezzer. I think it is because, I often find that much of what you say is well reasoned and I agree with, but there is often something within that, that shows the irrational way in which Baraclough is being treated at the moment. The idea that Rangers were performing like a team at the bottom of the Championship makes no sense. The fact that they were in the play-off is testament to the fact that they were best of the rest in the Championship. They had just beaten, QoS and Hibs to prove it. Had we beaten QoS or Hibs in the playoff's 6-2, it would have been an equally impressive result, particularly given the horrendous season that we had all endured. I do agree with you however, that many of the senior players gave their best performance in the play-off's having not performed like that, prior to or since the play-off's. McDonald and McManus are the perfect examples of that for me. If these players were playing ever week with the same commitment and energy that they showed in these games then we would not have a problem as a team. Going back to yesterday's game. Motherwell do not have a divine right to go to New Douglas Park and get a result. Hearts and Dundee Utd have already shown what a difficult place that will be to go to this season. I think we need to get away from the idea, that we have any rights to even be in the top 6, never mind finishing 2nd or 3rd in the Premiership. People on these very boards have talked about how we are a selling club and that we should be bringing on young players to sell in the future. The word 'future' is key. That they will be sellable assets in the future, suggest that they are not sellable assets now and that we should not be expecting the level of consistency of a player who is. Laing, Fletcher, Moult, Chalmers, Thomas, Johnston all fall into this category and yet suddenly we want them to be the finished article. For this model to work however, the senior players have to perform and guide. I don't think that is happening at the moment. Somebody made a comment that should be beat Morton and Thistle, we are only delaying the inevitable as the next poor result is just around the corner. I say, with the model we are trying to promote, why should we expect anything else at this moment in time? Seems to me that we like the idea but we don't like the reality. As Jim Morrison sang, it seems to me that 'we want the world and we want it NOW!!!!!'

I agree with almost everything you say. The only one thing to remember is that McIntyre and Dodd's have had a few months more in the job to get there house in order so should be a few months further ahead in their plans for the their team. I was very interested in yesterday's game because I believe Ross County to be the benchmark for us this season. They had similar problems to our own last season with management change and a fight against relegation. Furthermore as I have said, McIntyre and Dodd's are widely recognised as doing a great job so to match that much represent success surely. (unfortunately I think for a section of our support that will not represent success). I don't think that the gulf between the teams is as wide as some would have us believe. Consistency is key and I think that will be the next piece in the jig-zaw for our slowly developing side. Mouth watering performances may take a bit longer. As always time will tell

I don't really understand the logic in what you say. You are using Ross County as an example of a team who, thanks to a good management team have improved considerably having quickly brought together the new signings into a cohesive unit. Motherwell matched them yesterday. This is a team that is on a good run (3 victories in a row before yesterday) and everybody is happy (and rightly so) to give the Ross County team and management praise and plaudits. We matched them yesterday suggesting that we have improved and there is next to nothing in the way of positivity and praise. I do not understand why our own fans are using all kinds of reasons to have a go at our team and management. Here in one big positive. For the last 18-24 months, I have watched Motherwell teams lose goal after goal in the last 10 mins of games to lose or draw matches from winning positions due to fading badly in the second half of matches. Yesterday we scored in injury time to salvage a point against a fit, strong RC side. That's good. That for me is progress.

Of the teams we were fighting against when Baraclough took over, Ross County, Kilmarnock, Partick Thistle and St Mirren, one has since been relegated and two currently sit below us in the SPFL. We matched Ross County today, a team that have a highly rated management team in Jim McIntyre and Billy Dodds and by all accounts have made big strides forward since they took over in September 2014. I would say, putting opinion to one side for a minute, that those facts would suggest that progress has been made. Certainly under no circumstances could you agree that we are witnessing 'a terminal decline' based on those facts.

I agree with the comments made by yourself and The African. I think what has been lost and forgotten about however within this thread is the fact that the club and squad are going through a fairly major transition. I have said this several times before but I don't think we can really understate the rudderless, directionless nature of the club a year ago. Add to that an ageing, unbalanced squad and by November when McCall decided to call it quits it really was a club in crisis. What this thread has taught me is that as a support we don't have the stomach for rebuilding and long term projects. We talk a good game about giving the young players a chance, bringing in players that will have re-sale value in a few years and yet when these players don't perform instantly and the new squad of players find it difficult to gel this thread grows by 5 pages over a single week. We should have aspirations to be a top six club but we have no right to be there and certainly the end of August is far to early to be guessing as to how this season might actually pan out. Maybe we should go back to the 'proven Scottish manager' idea, a guy (eg Jimmy Calderwood) who knows the Scottish game with journeymen players of similar ilk where every point is a prisoner at the expense of any long term strategy. If that does happen however lets drop the pretense that we have any interest in the long term and the future of our young players.

Is this a parody on the newly born clichés of the Baraclough out thread or a genuine comment?

In a week when an away league cup victory and the bringing in of a Championship standard forward has brought about a baffling amount of angst and anxiety, maybe a win today will just be to much for some people to take. For me it's all good news. We get to look forward to a cup tie at Cappielow, a place that has fond memories for many of us, we finally have the prospect of a strong competitive bench each week (Fletcher, Thomas, Moult, Clarkson, Leitch for example) all desperate to come on and show what they can do, as opposed to the seasons when you look to the bench and hope that the manager does not need to make any substitutions. Motherwell are favourites today. They have had a more consistent start to the season and I believe that they have a stronger squad so all the signs are that we should have taken a big step forward from the thumping we received at Rugby Park in late August last season. I am confident of a narrow victory today. If things start to click into place it could be reasonably convincing. If we don't win or get beat, should Baraclough go? My opinion is definitely not but I can see that for some they will begin to ask some serious questions. 2-1 Well.

Sorry predictive txt. How does arithmetic come from raith?

Yes but if we had lost to Dunfermline, arithmetic rovers or Falkirk tonight then the knives would be out, so for that reason the comparison is valid. The point I am trying to make is that those who want to back the manager will see the positives, those who don't will see the negatives. Even facts are open to interpretation depending on what you want to get out of them.

Yes ya bezzer and won 3-1 away from home. That's a result in anyone's book surely?

We get it. Your gutted with tonight's result. Maybe you will get the result you want on Saturday, maybe you wont. For tonight I am just happy that we are in the next round of the Cup when others have failed this evening and we have struggled in the recent past.

Dundee are out, Accies are out, Thistle are out, Hearts are struggling away from home. It's a typical league cup evening. Motherwell have struggled through on nights like this many times before. Hartley must go. Imposter!!!!

Love it when this chat starts. We watch plays week in week out make the same mistakes. Poor decision making in good areas, allowing wingers and midfield players to ghost past them, misplaced passes over 10 yards etc, etc then we discover that it's all because the players don't like the manager and they are 'downing tools'. Think how good these players would be if they liked the manager. Maybe just as good as they were at the start of last season, after all they all loved Stuart McCall.

The loss of Pearson is proving to be telling. My feeling is that were Fletcher and Pearson playing in our first five games things would be looking much brighter. Added to that, McDonald has had a poor start to the season, probably due to a lack of pre-season. Very similar to the McFadden situation a few years ago. It is fine lines between success and failure in this league and I believe that the misfortunes of these three players are really costing us. Baraclough can't be blamed for the injuries or McDonald's lack of form (unless people believe that McDonald would be playing well under a different manager). Again there is a real old firm feel about this board at the moment with calls for the managers head and a real lack of patience. Martin Canning was a dud a few weeks back according to many and suddenly after a couple of good results, Accies are riding high again. Paul Hartely was in line for the World Manager of the year award after the Kilmarnock game and now Dundee are sitting mid table having had a mediocre start to the season. Things could all look very different in a months time. More time needed for the manager and the team. Also the young lad Taylor is not nearly as bad as some are making him out to be. I seem to remember this chat early doors with Long, Laing and Johnston.

Hammell cost us the second goal I felt. A terrible free kick that was floated in short of the 18 yard box thereby taking every Motherwell player out the game and allowing Aberdeen the perfect platform to break and get the free kick that led to the goal. He knew it to and let his head go down for the remainder of the game. Those suggesting that the four performances at the start of this season are as poor as the start of last season either have very poor memories or are just not prepared to give our current management and team any breathing space at all. Aberdeen will have much easier wins this year and with just a little bit more fortune we could have been sitting on 5 pts this evening with two home draws. I think we have played three of what could be the top four teams this year. It's what happens now that will make or break our season.

The thing is though that if as a support we genuinely believed that it is early days and that it is going to take time then we would not have had the mini meltdown we have seen after a difficult night at Tynecastle. Looking at it objectively we should be happy with 2 reasonable performances out of 3 and should be looking at today as a very difficult game where any sort of result would be welcome. The fact is though that football fans don't do objectivity well so, crazy as it is, there is already a feeling that anything short of a draw will make many Motherwell fans start to feel very edgy. For me a competitive performance will do today even if that results in a narrow defeat. A goal or two would be very welcome. 1-2 for the visitors I think. Would be very happy with a draw.

+3 I thought somebody was having a wee laugh at first until I saw that it was the topic starter that was resurrecting this. Must have been a long summer waiting to see if you would get the chance to get this going again. With last nights result it must have felt as if Christmas had come early.

Thought Ripley was excellent but Lasley was superb for the full 90 mins. Total commitment from the Captain so he get's my vote.

I was disappointed that this thread was ever started and I am still a bit mystified at the criticism he has received. When he took over in early December, I felt that top flight survival would be a massive success and he has achieved that. It is old ground now but at the time the injury list was at crisis levels, experienced players like McManus and Lasley were playing with little or no confidence, players like Ainsworth and Vigurs were going through the motions and there was a massive feeling of lethargy about the club. He is articulate and calm in interviews (a fault according to some of the fans), he has given the young players a chance, individual players have improved gradually since January (McManus, Lasley and Ainsworth being prime examples), he has brought in a whole new structure to the club (fitness coach, assistant manager) and brought in players in January that improved the squad significantly. Johnston looks like a great signing, Long showed in the last two games the potential he has, Grant is a very tidy, talented young player and Laing has I am sure a big future in the game. He has signed Dom Thomas on a long term deal and Erwin now has a reputation that few could have imagined pre Christmas. Then there is Pearson and McDonald. Again a section of the support were not prepared to give Baraclough any credit for these signings but lets not forget that McCall did not take up the option of Pearson back in the summer. To top it all off he has brought us the first victory against Rangers at Ibrox since 1997 and the first Firpark win since 2003. Billy Davis, Terry Butcher, Jim Gannon, Mark McGhee, Craig Brown and Stuart McCall (amongst others) have all held the managers seat in that time. I wanted Van der Gaag as the Motherwell manager so I have no hidden agenda but I think that Baraclough has done an outstanding job and has given this Well fan the best 3/4 days as a supporter since the 1991 Cup Semi final and Final. Congratulations Ian Baraclough. Onwards and upwards!!

Ian Baraclough, the first Motherwell manager to win at Ibrox since 1997. Sunday will be a long day. Will enjoy it tonight though.

McCall thought Law was a player worth bringing to the club and Baraclough thinks he is good enough to keep. That'll do for me. Good news.

I agree whole heartedly with the 4-5-1 formation. I have always felt that Ramsden looks a bit lightweight in the miidle of the park (although agree he performed well in the Utd game Al B) so would go with Connor Grant, who has the makings of a very tidy football player indeed. Crazy as it may sound I would go with Sutton up top. With a strong 5 across the middle, providing width, service to the frontman should not be an issue. I would take Sutton to convert those chances over Erwin or McDonald. Erwin and McDonald are better at making something happen but with 5 in the middle (2 being wingers) they should have more than enough to get things going. So my prediction if it's Ibrox is a John Sutton hat-trick, all within the 6 yard box, with assists from Johnston (2) and Ainsworth (1). 0-3 to the good guys and all the pain of season 14-15 and the last decade of misery inflicted by Rangers slipping away down the Govan back streets. Easy!!!!!

A St Mirren win tomorrow and unbelievably our fate is back in our own hands given that Killie play RC on the last game of the season. The old achillies heal was back tonight of letting a poor Kilmarnock side back into the game at 2-0 when they should have been dead and buried but the win is all that matters. I just feel that some of the individual decision making is going to have to be better if we are to avoid the drop. edit: sorry our fate would not be back in our own hands. Could have a situation on the last day of the season where Killie and RC have a gentleman's agreement to play out a draw to both go on to 42 points. All lot of water to pass under the bridge before that right enough.