star sail

The more I look at these decisions over the years, the more I am convinced that the single biggest factor in a referee's decision is the reaction of the players, benches and fans. Scott McDonald's sending off against Rangers last season is a perfect example of this. Had it not been Rangers and had it not been right in front of the dugouts, McDonald would not have been sent off. The Rangers impact is not because there is some conspiracy but simply because 6000 fans can make more noise than 2000. Managers and players rushing towards a referee is always going to have an impact no matter how much we wish it did not. For as long as we rely upon human beings, with all the frailty's they bring, to make split second decisions when their senses are being bombarded with the sound and sights of a pressurised atmosphere, we can expect these decisions to continue. Rangers and Celtic will always have an advantage in this respect because they can shout loudest and can bring more pressure to bear on the sub-conscience of referee's through the use of media and intimidation. No conspiracy, just human nature. For me, the frailty's of referee's (and for that matter players) is something to be celebrated because it makes our game what it is.

Agree with this entirely. Sadly however given that much of the game is won and lost in the head, Rangers do have an advantage in that respect. Our games against them last season is proof of this (the McManus mistake being the perfect example). I hope that Robinson can convince the players that Rangers are a very ordinary side but experience says that it is easier said than done.

They say that the sign of a good striker is to get into the correct positions. He did that on several occasions last night. If his first goal brings with it a little confidence then he may kick on to great things this season. Somebody mentioned Porter and Higdon. Anything close to that would be fantastic.

Robinson said himself in the press conference that any player that came in should be more than capable given that they are all professional players. I'm sure he will feel disappointed that they did not have more of a command on the game. These are both really poor results for both Hearts and Accies. It always baffles me that the gap between professional and amateur is sometimes smaller than the gap between two professional teams. Ian Cathro will be under a fair amount of pressure even if it is very early in the season. Edit: sorry semi-professional not amateur!!!

Semi-pro is more that good enough for me. Thanks for the reply.

This is always a statement I find very interesting. As a layman, I have been guilty over the years at looking at poor performances and poor results in very simple terms. I would be prone to making a comment very similar to the one made by Well Well above when having watched an apparent lacklustre first half resulting in a 1-1 draw and an energetic second half resulting in a 4-0 win, he puts it down simply to a lack of commitment and effort in the first half. People that know more about the game will point out that this view is far too simplistic and that there are many more forces at play. For those that do have a better understanding, I have a couple of questions that would help me understand the reasons for a particular performance at this time of year: 1) Given that it was a team of new players still in the process of pre season training throughout the full 90 minutes, what did make the difference yesterday between the first half and second half, if not just simply effort and application? 2) My background is in athletics. As a rule of thumb, an athlete that has had a lay off due to rest, illness or injury for three weeks should expect to train for the same length of time (i.e 3 weeks) before returning to pre lay off fitness and performance levels. What is the rule of thumb for professional football players? 3) Mothewell have been guilty in the past of what would appear to be lacklustre performances during the competitive season. I have seen poor performances (at some point)in almost every month of the calander year. How can we be confident that a poor performance in the first half yesterday was simply down to that fact that it is pre-season and mid July? 4) Other European teams seem to be able to handle the constraints of pre-season better than Scottish teams and hence can progress in European competition when Scottish teams struggle to do so. I know that some, but far from all start there competitive season earlier than we do. How can these teams get up and running quicker than Scottish teams?

I don't think Gateshead can be accused of not caring about the score. They won the game. It would be a concern if Motherwell did not care about the score. Your second point is a very good one because it changes the starting conditions of the game. If Motherwell were purposefully fatigued and Gateshead were fresh (assuming this was indeed the case) then that is a genuine reason as to why Motherwell might lose the game. The six points that Weeyin made do not come into this category because Gateshead are also going through a pre-season programme that presents them with the very same six problems. Hence my suggestion that they could be seen as excuses if they were to be used by Motherwell as reasons for defeat. No one is disputing the principles behind a pre-season training programme. I concede that I have lost this argument. I only hope that I have at least been able to explain the point that I was trying to make.

You have managed to say in a couple of lines what it took me several lines to say. The fact that it was a friendly for both teams negates Weeyin's argument for me.Given the likes for his post however it would seem that many think that his points are still valid. That's the beauty of having an opinion and having the freedom to express it on a forum. It would have been nice had the tone been a little less condescending but that's life.

I don't think it is unreasonable for one very obvious reason, The six reasons (it could be argued, excuses) you gave apply equally to Gatehead. The game started on a level playing field and Gateshead came out on top. It is not just Scottish teams that go through a pre-season. Oh and there is no need to be condescending. I am fully aware of all six of the reasons why a Motherwell side at this stage of the season should not be firing on all cylinders. The very same six reasons why a Gateshead side should not be firing on all cylinders either and can still beat a Motherwell team.

I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to have some concerns about a defeat to Gateshead given the backdrop of the lack of confidence in Scottish football at the moment. Had our contemporary's produced fine European victories over the last week or two and Scottish football was riding on the crest of a wave then yes, a defeat to Gateshead could be greeted with a shrug of the shoulders. The fact is however that the second biggest team in our league has just been put out of Europe by Luxembourg minnows and St Johnstone ( a team that has consistently outperformed us over the last few seasons) has also gone out of the competition at the first round, Scottish football is going through a crisis of confidence more than ever before. A defeat to a team like Gateshead does raise a few questions. Is the quality of player within the Motherwell squad any better than than the players in a team that play in the Vanarama National League? It is very easy to say that results at this stage of the season are of no importance and that performances are of no importance and maybe they are not, but it is not unreasonable for supporters on a football forum to raise a few concerns, particularly after a season when Motherwell struggled to stay in a league that is proving to be one of the poorest in Europe. I think what irk's me is the acceptance of mediocrity in this country from managers, players and fans alike. Football managers up and down Scotland are giving interviews like Robinson's on Saturday, explaining the latest defeat because it's only pre-season or it's too early in the season or it's too late in the season or the players are exhausted...............etc,etc. My favourite was a few seasons ago when Craig Brown was the manager. He gave as the primary reason why Motherwell were out of European football as a lack of match fitness(where have we heard this before). He then gave as the reason for a lacklustre defeat in September as the players being exhausted due to an early start to the season because of the teams involvement in European football. By his reasoning there must have been a small window of opportunity in late August where conditions were right to put in a performance. Maybe on the other hand he was just talking shite. The point I am making is that a team like Motherwell have to earn the right to be able to shrug of a defeat to a team like Gateshead. I don't think that this team are anywhere near earning that right, so it is not unreasonable for supporters to question the result or the performances. One of the football managers mantra's is that confidence is king. If this is true the results in pre season games matter.

I don't think we can come to any conclusions regarding the position of other teams. In the play-off season we thumped St Mirren at Fir Park when St Mirren still had a chance to stay up and they then beat us a matter of a few weeks later when they were already relegated and the game was hugely important for us. If we are to believe that pressure is often the cause of some of the poor football and decision making that we witness then Killie should be on form tomorrow night.

Not sure if this has been mentioned already but it is possible that we can be safe on Tuesday even if Accies win. It would need us to win and Dundee to lose . Given that they play each other in the last game any result would work for us. I know that somebody mentioned that we can no longer have a scenario where both Dundee and Accies need only a draw in the last game. It shows how big a result that was yesterday. One question for the statos. Have Motherwell had back to back victories this season? I cannot think of any. Edit: Just realised the post above makes this very point.

Taking the last decade alone, every manager we have had has contributed in no small way to keeping us in the Premiership. Mcghee, Gannon, Brown, McCall, and Baraclough. Football management is a tough gig and the vilifacation of football managers, I find hard to stomach. The car salesman, imposter that was Ian Baraclough kept us in the division and yet his treatment by Well fans was terrible. I would argue that he actually did more than any other manager in the last 10 years for securing our future. That our future is in jeopardy again shows how difficult it is to stay in the league. These guys put more effort into their jobs that the average joe. I would thank every single one of them given the chance. Let's hope we can add Robinson to the list over the next two weeks.

It's amazing how a simple image like this can catch your breath.. I was calm but now the adrenaline is pumping. Big day!!!! COYW.

Agree with this. Decisions have not been kind and the only real bit of luck I can think of all season was boyds penalty miss in the last minute v killie. As an aside what has happened to Lee Lucas? Is he injured?

I have been getting tired over the years of defending manager after manager against unfair criticism but here we go again. Firstly Kilmarnock, 3 points nobody can argue with that. Aberdeen away is a very difficult place to go to. They have only lost one home game all season (I think to Cetlic) so to lose a last minute goal is no shame. St Johnstone today is disappointing but they are no mugs and we were without three of our first choice defenders. To match St Johnstone today for large spells shows progress, particularly given the circumstances. It could well be only 3 points from 12 after the Rangers game but Rangers at Ibrox is again a very touch challenge. Let's not judge Robinson on a potential loss to Accies that hasn't even happened yet. I think there has to be some degree of realism before we start crucifying yet another manager,

I would suspect that St Johnstone fans were underwhelmed when Tommy Wright stepped up from Assistant to Manager. Wright has turned out to be possibly the most successful manager in the SPFL in relative terms over the last few seasons. In terms of Motherwell manager appointments over the last 10 years, I was most underwhelmed by Stuart McCall. He turned out to be arguably the most successful Motherwell manager in recent history. Robinson's club record is not fantastic but in the case of Motherwell and Oldham he has been at clubs in transition and only a result or two away from crisis. Not easy circumstances to work under for any manager. All the very best to him and if he ends up being the next Tommy Wright then we can look forward to a few more seasons in the top flight.

Except for a Scottish cup.

Jane Lewis said 5 would be interviewed. We now know 3, Robinson, Valakari and Hughes, all names that have been suggested on here. Guesses for the other two? I think Alan Stubbs would be a possibility but can't think of a fifth.

Did not realise he had said this, I suspected this might have been the case though. Cheers.

Is it at all possible that the club are actually looking for two men literally. Director of Football roles are a hot topic at the moment with clubs like Hearts and Rangers going down that road. Robinson's strength seems to be as a first team coach. The question mark might be, would he have a long term vision for the team and the club? If there was a Director of Football working with him, he could concentrate on what he is good at. Maybe a Director of Football, is simply not an option for a club our size but is it all possible that the announcement of Robinson's appointment is being delayed because they are looking for that very thing?

My thoughts on the names mentioned: Stephen Robinson: I would be happy with this, A well respected coach who has seen success with NI as is at the point in his career where management of at team our size seems the next logical step. I would not hold his time at Oldham against him. I listened to an interview with John Sheriden where he admitted that he left the club first time round because he did not believe that he had the resources to keep the club in the Championship. As a first managerial experience it would have been a baptism of fire. If would be a real shame if he does not get the job because he seems like a decent guy who has done much in a positive sense for the club over the last few seasons. Yogi Hughes: I really like him has a character and as others have said, I don't think he will be nearly as daft as he comes across. Won a Scottish Cup for ICT and had them playing good football with little resources. I have heard him speak very positively about Motherwell as a club and I think he has the personality to unify the club. Again would be happy with this. Simo Valakari: Normally this would be the kind of appointment that would excite me. A hungry, up and coming manager, with fresh ideas and success at a slightly lower level. On this occasion however I am not so sure. Maybe it is the memories of the Harri Kampman experience or maybe it is just because I feel that it is just too much of a step into the unknown. As I have said before our support does not have the patience or stomach for an experiment and a few poor results could see the mood change very quickly. Heart says yes to Simo, head says no. Owen Coyle/ Billy Davis: Not for me. Would be expensive options and may be guilty of thinking, like McGhee, that the job is beneath them. Not sure that they would have the hunger for the fight. Alan Stubbs: Seems to be unpopular on here but for me would be a great option. Took on a team in Hibs that were in freefall. Calderwood and Butcher had been able to do nothing to stop the rot, Stubbs rebuilt very succesfully and achieved a Scottish Cup win. People would argue that he could not get Hibs out of the Championship but he had the not so small matter of Rangers and Hearts to contend with. Young coach with a wealth of experience looking to rebuild his reputation. Would be delighted if it was Stubbs. Jim Duffy: Part of the Scottish football establishment so for that reason alone, it's a massive NO for me.

Lost out to two of the other biggest teams in Scotland, Rangers and Hearts and as I said above he won a Scottish Cup. If we are ruling out people like Stubbs as not Motherwell standard then the pool is going to become very small indeed.

Indeed. The very same man. There was the small matter of a Scottish Cup victory as well. I guess he was just lucky.