David

I think so as well. It was always a dodgy situation allowing the manager to surround himself entirely with his own backroom team. While it may seem like a good thing at the time to back the manager, it also means if and when he goes they all follow. I'd like whoever comes in to have Hammell installed as the assistant, with Kerr moved up to take on the job Hammell had with the youths.

Because it is possible to not be good enough for a starting spot, but good enough for a place on the bench. It doesn't have to be a game of absolutes. But let's be honest, if he did have a huge falling out, O'Donnell wouldn't even be training with the first team, let alone sitting on the bench. What did Alexander do that wasn't professional? Drop a player from the starting eleven who he didn't deem good enough? A player who, by most fans accounts, simply wasn't performing well enough? A player who himself admitted that Alexander may have been correct? I could understand if Alexander took the same approach as Paul Lambert did with Kayden Jackson and Jon Nolan at Ipswich, banishing them to train with the kids and making vague accusations about the player, but he didn't, did he? Did he disrespect O'Donnell in the media? In press interviews? Did he question O'Donnell's professionalism? I honestly think he just didn't fancy him as a player. He didn't think he was good enough. Which is allowed, by the way. He's the manager, it's his job to make those calls. I don't personally think it was the right call, but that's on Alexander. It wasn't unprofessional though. Why would he? Do you think Alexander removed O'Donnell from the team because of what the fans thought? If he did, then he's got bigger problems than might first be apparent! He dropped O'Donnell because he didn't think he was good enough. That's a managers prerogative. Why was it vindictive? Was he banished from the first team? Made to train with the kids? Embarrassed and called out publicly? I don't think he was. He was, basically, seen as surplus to requirements. It happens. He just wasn't good enough, mate. There's no "patching up" to be done. It was on O'Donnell to up his game and prove to the manager that he was good enough to feature. Which he didn't do, and he knows it going by his admittance that Alexander may have been correct. Maybe he got dropped initially and the head went down? He didn't respond as he should have? Hopefully he learns from it. That squad isn't a shambles. We have some quality in there, it will just take a few key signings in certain areas to make the difference. The recruitment thing is a fine line really. It depends who's available at any given time. It's easy for fans to say "get a striker in" but what if there's no decent strikers available within our budget? What then? Just magic one up out of thin air? Or do what we've seen managers in the past do, and sign any old shite as long as it represents a body in the door? Often times clubs in our position have to play the waiting game and see who becomes available on a free or via loan once the bigger clubs have conducted their business and finalised their squads. That's why there's usually always a rush of signings in the last few weeks. I said before the summer window opened that I'd rather we wait and sign decent quality than waste money on players who aren't going to make the cut just to get bodies in the door and keep the fans happy. If that means we're a bit light and not looking great for the first two or three games in the season then so be it. However, we're now in a position where we still need those quality signings, but don't have a manager to rubber stamp them. So, whatever problems we had a few weeks ago are now exacerbated. Which is why I would have stuck with Alexander until around October or so to see how we got on. Or at least until we identified a decent replacement ahead of time. But the fans wanted him out as "it couldn't possibly be any worse." So, let's see if that's true. There's no real outstanding candidate for the job out there at this stage of the season. There never is. We've gone down the crazy road of parting ways with a manager literally days before the season starts, and we have no one who can rubber stamp signings before the window closes, unless we want to bring a manager in a few weeks from now and hand him a squad that may include brand new signings he doesn't like the look of. Truth is, the club should either have got rid of Alexander in the summer, or waited until October or November. It seemed quite simple really. But they haven't, they dithered about until he eventually came to them obviously looking for the club to either accept his resignation or signal their intent to back him for the next few months at least. Let's hope we don't pay the ultimate price for that.

Compared to clubs who can afford to pay higher wages? You mention Ross County and Livingston, but they're clubs who also offer ordinary wages for the most part I think. Ross County maybe offer a little more, actually. But yeah, the truth is that the majority of our squad are going to be ordinary players. That's our level. What can make a difference is a manager who can take a bunch of ordinary players and make them play well, and it also helps if we can get a youth player through now & then who is of higher quality, or can chance upon a good find in the lower reaches of the English game.

Nah, we do what we need to do to succeed. If we have a chance to take someone like Mackay or McInnes from a team around us, we do it. I'd rather we did that and succeeded, than lose our premiership status but retain our status as a club who don't do shitty things.

On the subject of the next manager, I think we're at a stage where we need to either really go for someone of quality, or look at someone like Hammell who can implement his experience of the youth setup and bring some of those lads through. I'd sound out McInnes and Malky Mackay. Hopefully the club have at least got some sort of read on them, to know if they'd be interested. I know both clubs are similar to ours in many ways, but the potential, recent results and how the club is run here may appeal to them? I'd certainly be making moves to see if they'd at least entertain the idea. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Aye, but surely if there was a system, scout, recruitment specialist or whatever that could sign a lot of players who are better than ordinary but available on our budget they'd be the most sought after individuals in football? We sign ordinary players for the most part, because we offer ordinary wages.

Do you know what the disagreement was about, like? I didn't see it mentioned? There's every chance the disagreement was about O'Donnell not being good enough? Which many of our fans were saying week in and week out on here, on social media, and in the stands. But hey, you can use it as another reason to bash a guy who's no longer even here.

I also watched them regularly, having lived there for a bit. Sure, the situation at Ipswich wasn't great, but his style of football was rank. As you'll no doubt know, the fanbase there is fairly passive, so to see them react to him in the manner they did was a bit of an eye-opener. Basically, Lambert was many of the things our support didn't like about Alexander. Which is why I think he'd be a terrible choice.

Hearing a lot of talk about Lambert being a great choice. Not quite sure what that's based on to be honest. At one point with Ipswich he had won 2 games from 25, and the reaction of the fans when he was sacked was of the type of jubilation that makes Motherwell fans reaction to Alexander going look like nothing. In short, his style was turgid, he was actually arrogant and abrasive with media and even fans, showing indifference to the idea of him being sacked for terrible form. When asked if he fears for his job by a reporter he said: "As I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again, if Marcus (the owner) came to me today or tomorrow and said whatever... nae problem, I can’t do nothing about that, I can’t influence that." Some of our fans believe that Alexander fell out with O'Donnell and lost the dressing room? Lambert absolutely did fall out with Ipswich's players. He was sending guys to train with the under-23's, and when reporters were asking him who he was talking about when he was slagging players off in the media, he responded like... Basically, he would be a terrible choice. A great player, but a manager who's way past his best.

I suppose the same could be said about Alexander. And, sadly, will no doubt be the case with whoever is next to take the reins at the club. Unless they're a former player who the majority of fans like. An example of that would be Paul Lambert. I've seen a number of fans saying they'd take him because he was a good player for us. I follow Ipswich Town, and if our fans think Graham Alexander's football was bad, they better hope Lambert never gets the job. At one point with Ipswich Lambert was sitting on 2 wins from 25 games. Oh, Alexander played a part in things. Where I tend to disagree is this notion in certain areas that Alexander dropped him and didn't bring him back because O'Donnell was reportedly a lone voice standing against the evil, arrogant manager who doesn't know what he's doing. I just think he saw, like the rest of us, the errors he was making quite consistently in games last season and thought that he wasn't good enough. Was he right in that assessment? I don't think so, and I certainly don't think he's worse than Mugabi or any of the other players he tried to shoehorn into that position. But I think it's an honest assessment. And it's not insane to believe that he just didn't rate O'Donnell. If there was animosity between the two of them why would he bother picking him at all? Surely having him on the bench suggests that he thought he was worth having as a backup, even if he didn't rate him as highly as some. Again, I honestly think if Alexander was arrogant and fighting with his own team, dropping people out of spite and so on, he wouldn't have the backing of the captain. Kelly had no reason to come out and say what he did. He didn't have to do it, but he did, which tells you the respect he has for him. I don't believe Kelly would feel that way if Alexander was the type who was ostracising his team-mates. I just think he didn't rate Stephen O'Donnell. Which isn't a crazy notion, as a large chunk of our fanbase don't rate him either. Oh, absolutely. He signed McGinn to replace O'Donnell. Now, here's a question. What if the next manager comes in and thinks McGinn is a better option than O'Donnell as well?

Wonder if Edgar Davids is among them, as usual?

The thing is, if you go back and read the posts from January to March you'll see that I was fully supportive of O'Donnell. I wouldn't have dropped him, but the manager dropped him because he looked to suffer a dip in form, which cannot be argued against. I don't think Mugabi is better than him at right-back, and believe O'Donnell was our best option there last season, but there's a lot of fans who didn't think that. They were screaming for O'Donnell to get punted. The point I'm making is that now, looking back, there's fans changing the narrative retrospectively because they want to shoehorn in the notion that he had a falling out with the manager, and that it's Alexander's fault. When in reality they were glad to see O'Donnell benched. And I'm not saying that there wasn't tension between O'Donnell and Alexander. There should be, considering O'Donnell wants to play and the manager had dropped him. But let's not kid on that O'Donnell was dropped because he challenged Alexander, which is what some folk are saying. He was dropped because he didn't play well last season, which is the reason Alexander brought in McGinn to replace him.

It's not really that hard to explain. Tony Watt was offered more money to go to Dundee United. Simple as that. He didn't "suddenly" want a move, he became interested when he realised not only could he move in the summer and earn more than we were paying him, but could leave us in January and start earning higher wages quicker. Same goes with Woolery. He didn't "suddenly" fancy a move to Turkey. He only became interested once the opportunity popped up, and rightfully so, as he'll also be on more money than we were paying him. And are just going to kid on that O'Donnell had been playing well for us and that all of the Motherwell fans were fully behind him getting picked for Scotland? Go back to the start of the year and into March on this forum and see the type of reaction O'Donnell was getting. In fact, just put his name in the search bar above. So let's not kid on that O'Donnell being dropped was a travesty, and was all down to him arguing and falling out with the manager. It wasn't. He was shit. Did he lose the dressing room? It's interesting that we're all willing to buy into rumours and made-up "facts" yet the only noises coming out the dressing room are from our captain and best player who says exactly the opposite. Do we believe him? Or just ignore Kelly's comments because it doesn't fit with the anti-Alexander narrative? I didn't think Alexander was particularly great as a manager, but I'm also not that sure we can expect to do much better. Alexander's record down south is decent enough, with promotion won for Fleetwood Town, took Scunthorpe to the play-offs, and got Salford promoted while taking them to a cup final. I know lots of our fans like to kid themselves on that he was a donkey, but his record says otherwise. Let's hope the next guy we bring in can live up to the lofty expectations of the experts we have in our fanbase.

If we're serious about wanting to rely on our own youth rather than buying in players on a gamble, then Hammell is surely the man for the job? He knows our youth players very well and will know who's up for the task and who isn't.

The thing is, there's context to be had during his run, like most things in life. Did he run out of ideas? I'm not so sure he did. He was embarking on a new season where he was looking to bring in fewer players and run with a tighter squad. He came in and steered us out of trouble, that much is true. But he also had to deal with managing the club during a time of short-notice suspensions and even call-offs due to Covid, which had a pretty substantial effect on recruitment not just for us, but other clubs in the league. Let's be honest, there's a reason why most clubs in the league last season were terrible. Over the season we brought in 16 players. I think most of the league clubs brought in extra bodies to try and help deal with any potential Covid suspensions, but the kicker is that they had to do it without an increase in budget. Basically, we all needed more players on less wages to make up the numbers, which is why I think our squad (and the squads of those around us) were bloated and the quality simply wasn't great. That doesn't even begin to address the issues with training and masks and social distancing and all that jazz. Those aren't excuses, that's just how it was. It was a really tough time to come into a football club and try to successful manage a squad of players. On his record, we finished last season in 5th with a record of 12 wins, 10 draws, and 16 losses. The year before St Johnstone finished 5th with a record of 11 wins, 12 draws, and 15 losses. And in 208/19, Hibs finished 5th with a record of 14 wins, 12 draws, and 12 losses. So, it's hardly as if our record last season is all that terrible. Where Alexander faced issues was in having what was a very good start to the season, followed by a terrible finish. He even snagged a few Manager of the Month awards, didn't he? Flip those around and he'd be considered a managerial mastermind for changing things up. The result at the end of the season would have been the same though. On signings, personally, I think McGinn and Spittal will come good for us. I actually prefer the idea of signing less players, but players who have a decent pedigree in our game, than signing 8-10 new players from down south who are all huge gambles. Spittal made 37 appearances for County last season, while Mcginn played 34 times for Hibs. We know what we're getting from those two. Neither will be amazing, but they could both be good, solid first team players for Motherwell for a good few years. Morris I don't know much about, but last season aside he seems to have a solid reputation in League One down south, playing over 30 games each season in four out of the five he was at Fleetwood and Scunthorpe. In conclusion, I think Alexander will be fine. He'll get another job down south no problem, mostly because the comments from Gary Neville about how they made a huge mistake in sacking him at Salford, plus his record there, and at Scunthorpe and Fleetwood will hold more authority than him being binned by us in what most down south consider to be an inferior league. I expect he'll pop up in League One or Two before the season is out.

Have to love how these rumours just suddenly become fact. It seems we've forgotten the calls for O'Donnell to be dropped for being rank rotten, and are overlooking the idea that Woolery is now playing in Turkey most likely making far more coin than we could ever hope to pay him.

Of course it isn't, but do many other clubs have their best player and captain come out and address it in the media?

At least we won't see any chat about Van Der Gaag this time around.

Something I've always wondered about when I read about situations like this, is what kind of effect it has on future player and manager recruitment? I mean, for most players and managers this is simply their job. Very few are plying their trade for a club they have an emotional attachment to. Also, football players and managers talk to each other. It's a relatively small industry. If you were a manager who had a few options to get back into the game, or to even move up a few levels, would something like this play a part? We've read often enough about how players and managers will pick up the phone to speak to people who know about the club, ex-managers and so forth before they take the job. Alexander reportedly spent a bit of time chatting with Robinson before accepting the position. What will Alexander tell a potential manager if they ask him about his time here? Very well-run club with some great backroom staff and a decent squad, but a fanbase that will hurl abuse at you on the regular if things turn? If I was a player from down south with a few options including Motherwell, i'd be looking at Kelly's comments and the situation with the manager and be thinking "do I want to subject my family, my parents, my kids to reading abuse directed at me and my team mates on Twitter or social media any time we don't play well or lose? Or even worse, have them sitting in the main stand to watch me play only to see grown adults hanging over the side of the stadium to hurl abuse as we leave the field?" And I know that some people will say "well, you're a footballer, you're in a privileged position, you make a lot of money, just man up and accept it" but no one wants to work in a somewhat toxic workplace, do they? Especially if they have options. If any one of us on here had a few different job offers and one of them was known in the industry for being hard work, a difficult environment to work in, would we want to work there? All I'm saying is, most players we sign usually have a few different options available to them in the form of similar sized clubs down south and even up here. The pull of Motherwell lately has been the chance to kick on and progress your career, but if the reports of negativity start to outweigh the positives, we may find that players we target opt for elsewhere where the atmosphere is less likely to turn. I'd hate to see us get a reputation in the game as a place where players and managers actively avoid unless they have no other option.

I don't think anyone is claiming he should be the first name of the team sheet, we're saying it's strange that he's went from being our captain and a regular starter to not featuring at all. That would hint at something more between him and the management team, although we won't know for sure obviously. It's all speculation at this point.

At this point it wouldn't surprise me. Unless things change drastically it'll be a long, hard season. Although I think St Mirren are going to be involved in the relegation battle too.

That's the thing, I think we did organise some games only for them to be cancelled. That's what I've picked up on anyway. Could be wrong, but I don't think the manager would actively not want games under our belt.

This is a point I've seen mentioned a few times. First of all, I don't think the manager is responsible for organising friendly games pre-season. That responsibility sits with other departments in the football club I'd think. He'll have an input, sure, but he isn't making those games happen. And I doubt the club were like "How about games against X,Y, and Z, Graham?" only for him to say "nah, it's cool. It's only an Irish side we're playing in Europe." Also, there's been talk of games being organised then cancelled for reasons outwith our control by our potential opponents. Obviously we couldn't organise any games at Fir Park, so I think we were relying on some away games, which didn't happen. The pre-season hasn't gone according to plan by the looks of it, but I'm not sure that the manager is to blame there. He's to blame for many other things though.

Ordinarily I'd agree, but there's a few weird situations going on. The main one is with O'Donnell.

His contract is likely structured to include a number of factors, but I'd imagine one of them is keeping the club in the Premier league, which he has done. The fact he took us to European football will have earned him some credit with the board. What most fans are asking for is the equivalent of a person being hired as a sales manager with minimum KPIs tied into his contract, only for him to hit those targets at the end of the year then be sacked because he had the equivalent of a bad day at the office early in the next year. As for the number of wins in a calendar year, or whatever way people want to frame it, that doesn't matter. It's where we finish in the league that matters. Teams below us may have had a better run over a pre-determined period of time (10 games, 15 games, 20 games) but if they finished below us in the league it doesn't matter. Alexander will be sacked if it looks unlikely he'll manage to secure us 10th place at minimum this season. We won't know how likely that is until around October or November, which is when I think the decision will be made. If we're sitting 9th or 10th and looking terrible he'll be gone and a new man in by January. If we're sitting 7th or even 8th and there's a bit of distance between ourselves and the teams in 10th and below then I think he'll be given the rest of the season. And for clarity, this isn't me saying what I want to happen. This is how I see it playing out.