David

If we sign one or two players in this window it signals to me what I know about the January window, and that is that it's a very difficult window to do anything in unless you're a big club with sizeable resources. How many teams are going to be offloading players of the quality we'd need mid-season? At best you're getting a few loan signings in, with maybe a free agent being available. But the summer is when the real work is done, and Hammell didn't really get that.

Tony Watt left because he was offered more money by a club that has more resources than we do, simple as that. O'Hara? Yeah, I'm not sure he fit into Alexander's way of playing. That's not to say he isn't a good player, but if he's not suited to the system or style of play then there's no point in him being here. It's football. It happens. If you're talking about comments I made, all I've done is state facts when it comes to Alexander's time as manager. I do that because there's this mental obsession with reframing his time here to suit the agenda of reassuring ourselves that despite league positions, win percentages, and points totals he actually wasn't that good. His style of football wasn't easy on the eye, and he certainly didn't lack confidence in himself or suffer fools gladly, which rubs certain people the wrong way. That's fair enough, but we knew all of that before hiring him. My main issue with how he left was the timing of it. I've said numerous times that we should either have got rid of him as soon as the season finished, as irrational as that would have been considering we'd finished 5th in the table, but it would certainly have been preferable to giving him the summer and then parting ways two days before the league kicked off, or kept him until around November or December and seen if he could get the team back on track. The board made a mistake in how they allowed that to play out. And the truth is, we're potentially going to pay for that with relegation. It was the type of move you see clubs who end up getting relegated making, and although we're not usually the type of club to do that, it's happened. The bigger question now is does the board allow the same disgruntled voices who played a part in Alexander moving on to influence how we deal with Hammell? Parting ways with a manager days before the league season starts is worrying and as I mentioned, the kind of behaviour you see from clubs who tend to end up in relegation trouble. But binning said managers replacement five months later is even worse. We had a choice when we appointed Hammell. We could have gone down the route of another Alexander type who likely would have kept us up (as I'm sure Alexander himself would have), but we wanted someone young, fresh, likeable, and who played exciting football. Well, now we have that. But we're finding out that being likeable and playing football that perhaps isn't as difficult to watch doesn't mean success. But Hammell is the man in the seat now, and we need to back him. Changing manager again, for the second time in a season would be a disaster. There's not many clubs who do that kind of thing and go on to succeed.

It's the January window. We'll be lucky to get one or two quality signings, never mind thinking we can retool the squad in the window that is universally known as terrible to work in unless you have insane amounts of money to spend.

Those "duds" finished 5th last season. And I know, "lucky, nothing to do with Alexander, every other team was crap etc" but the facts are the facts. His record over his time with us is an 8th place and 5th place finish. And while the results weren't great in the 2022 half of the season, we secured 46 points last season for a 5th place finish. By comparison we finished 8th on 45 points the season before when Alexander took over from Robinson, and the year previous when we finished 3rd under Robinson, which was looked upon as a successful season, we finished 3rd on 46 points. So it's not as if we were terrible but secured 5th on a lower points threshold than ever before. Alexander attained success by any barometer a club like Motherwell can be measured by. But the fans weren't happy with that, they wanted more exciting football and a manager who was more likeable. Now we've got that. There's every chance that we excitingly play our way into the Championship.

Kelly for me. Any time a keeper can save two penalties in one game he has to considered for the MOTM award.

The problem is, he was brought in literally two days before the league season started, and was given the job on a permanent basis on August 11th, two games in. It was the worst possible scenario, as I've said a few times before. At that stage we should have kept Alexander until December or so and seen if he could get the players back on track. It was sheer madness to give him the summer, allowing him to bring in three first-team players on permanent contracts then part ways days before the league season started. We should either have parted company at the end of last season, or stuck with him until November/December depending on results. This mess is as a result of the board royally fucking up. And it's out of character, as we normally don't do that when it comes to how we work with managers. If we appoint Hammell in August then bin him before he's really had a transfer window to work with it'll just add to the chaos, as the next manager will be coming in with the January window already open and in progress and will have to rush some signings in and try to get the team on track. That kind of behaviour is what leads to relegation. We've thrown ourselves into this position with some horrific decision making. Now the board must decide if they follow that up with some more mental decision making or stick with a young manager that seemingly impressed enough to get the job on a permanent basis only five months ago, giving him a window to get some players in who can play how he wants the team to play, and then reassess in the summer.

Four points from the next two is required I think, otherwise it could spell trouble for Hammell.

So, a draw. I'll take that.

As I've said before, we've been in this kind of position before, where fans are writing us off and claiming we're done for, only for us to go out and win 3-0. Outside the Cold Firm and whichever team is sitting third most seasons, every other Scottish side couldn't be separated with a fag paper. We could just as easily win this 3-0 as we could lose it 3-0. I fancy us for the draw, but wouldn't be surprised if we absolute run over them, or if they run over us.

Depends what he wants to do I guess. He's nearly 35 now, and as you mention, his levels were waning shortly before he left us almost three years ago, so how much more does he have to offer at a decent level? I wouldn't be against him coming back as part of the backroom team in some capacity. He seems like he was a good guy to have around the club.

On the evidence that outside the old firm and maybe Hearts the rest of the league is very unpredictable and fairly even. Again, we've seen this kind of thing before, multiple times per season with us. We could very easily go on to beat Livingston 3-0. And just as easily go on to lose to them 3-0. Most teams in our league are much of a muchness I think.

Onto the next one. History shows we rarely get anything from the old firm (except last season, when Alexander managed to grab two draws at Ibrox. Probably a total fluke and nothing to do with him at all, mind) so we move onto the next games which are all winnable. How many times have we been in a position where the fans are all saying "nah, we're done for. No points from the next three" only for us to go on and put three past our next opponents and manage to kick on a little?

You're kidding, right? I said that I think he's mostly wrong in his predictions. That's far from personal, especially when you see some of the ways in which members call out each others opinions on this forum. You can respond as you wish, and I'll do the same. I think we can both agree that I said absolutely nothing personal in my post. I addressed his comments, which I find to be negative, not him personally. He's free to make them, of course, and he's also free to disagree with me. On the topic at hand, Moult just completed 90 minutes, which is a positive. Let's hope that's a sign he's on his way back to full fitness and being able to contribute more to the team.

I'm actually really glad to see you say that. Because most of the time you're absolutely wrong, and hopefully this is yet another of those instances.

The players are professionals playing at a relatively high level. You don't get this far by not caring if you win or lose.

We all know how it works with the Old Firm, and moreso Celtic these past few years. We need them to be off their game while we're on ours. All we can do is go out and give it a go. We could easily get humped 5-0, but we could also sneak a draw. Depends on which Celtic show up, and unfortunately under Postecoglu they don't seem to have many off days.

I'd be surprised if Moult wasn't on some sort of appearance-related salary from our side of things, with Burton picking up the wages otherwise.

Yeah, it's never a red.

At least it wasn't the 4-1 defeat you predicted.

No, don't make the mistake of thinking I believed Alexander was the man to take us forward long-term. I thought the timing of him going was insane, more so than him actually going. If the club had sacked him at the end of the season they'd have been able to bring someone new in and give them a full summer and transfer window. I personally would have given him until end of October at the most to make the changes needed. He'd managed to secure 5th place, he'd kept us up. If we were still playing the way we were at the end of last season then you make the decision to move him on. I think we sort of botched the whole process by letting him go a few days before the new league season started. The fact he went so quickly suggests to me that there was already issues and the feeling that it wasn't going right, so I would say the board should have made that call earlier. Again, not saying he was the man to take us forward, but I'm willing to bet we'd have had a wider range of potential managers available if we'd sacked him at the end of the season. We'll see if that process comes back to bite us on the arse come the end of the season. I hope not, and at the moment I don't think it will. Yes, but you're completely missing the point. How many other teams are relatively successful due to one of their better players being the common denominator? That's why we signed him, isn't it? To score the goals that make the difference? You can't say "yeah, well, if we didn't have Tony Watt scoring our goals..." because the fact is we did have Tony Watt. He was part of the team, it was nothing to do with luck. Also, he didn't score those goals in a vacuum. His team-mates, the tactics, how he was deployed, those all played a part. If it was just the fact that we were lucky to have Tony Watt in our team then you'd surely see him do the same at Dundee United? Yet, he isn't. Also, I can understand you saying that we were lucky to win a one-off game, or even a cup or something, but the league isn't about luck. We finished top six because we secured more points than six other teams over the course of the season up to the split. Again, it's this mindset of "we're lucky" when we accomplish anything, but "it's the team/manager/burrows fault" when we fail. The reluctance to give credit where it's due is baffling.

Yes, but the point is, that's what good players mean to a team. When teams lose their best players, they suffer. That's why teams sign strikers. To score goals. It's part of the whole process, so it's kind of weird to say "ah, but the only reason we won games is because we had a good striker!" Basically, when we were winning games and putting points on the table we were lucky, and when we were losing games it's because we were rubbish. Zero credit to the manager and the team as a whole for the positive results during the season. It was all down to luck, Tony Watt's goals (which he scored in a total vacuum, of course. The rest of the team and the managers tactics played no part at all) and our overall league finish had nothing to do with the team and manager doing better than the teams around us over the entirely of the season, but was instead down to other teams being crap. Honestly, the manager and team can't win when it comes to some fans.

This kind of chat really does my head in. How many fans will be saying that Man City will only win the league this season due to Haaland's goals? Of course Watt's goals helped us, that's his job! He was part of the team! As for "a lot of luck" getting us the finish we got? By the same token, a lot of bad luck stopped us finishing higher in the second half of the season then? Of course not, because the narrative is that when a manager we don't particularly like does well it's mainly down to luck, but when he does badly it's entirely on him and him alone.

I'm not questioning the appointment of Hammell, for the record. I actually think he'll do okay for us. What I am saying is that as a fan base we need to be realistic, and take the positives from whatever kind of approach the manager at the time employs. If we find ourselves in a position where the stars align and we're getting decent results and playing some nice football those are the days to be really enjoyed, as they don't happen all that often. Alexander, for all his faults, can sit there today and point at the actual end results his football attained. Arrived in January with the club in relegation trouble, and took them to a relatively comfortable 8th place finish, followed by a 5th place finish and European football qualification in his only full season. Sure, those who didn't like him for various reasons can point to the five draws, six losses and zero wins we got between December and March, while his supporters (if they exist) can point to his nine wins, four draws and seven losses from August to the end of December in the same year. Along with some decent draws against Rangers. Promotion and relegation isn't decided on an arbitrary period of time in any given season. It's based on the entirety of the season, and if we're going to take into account the zero wins from December to March we have to acknowledge the nine wins between August and December. And everything you said in your post there about Hammell is true. He's made mistakes, he will make more, and there has been circumstances that if they had been different we'd be in a different place today, but the same goes for any manager. I seriously doubt any Motherwell fan wants Stevie Hammell of all people to fail so they can point at the results of a manager who's history with the club lasted 18 months. I certainly don't. I don't think Alexander was anything special, by the way. He was a good, solid manager at a time when we needed a good, solid manager. I just don't think he was as bad or calamitous as some people are painting him to be. Hammell's teams play better football, but do seem to show the naivety you'd expect from a manager just learning his craft at the senior level. He also needs at least three transfer windows. The summer wasn't the best period for him to put his stamp on the team, so I'd personally like to see him given until this time next year or thereabouts before we start making any decisions on him, unless we fall into a tailspin, which hopefully won't happen.

I bet that's what the St Mirren fans thought as well. Thus far in the league they've lost one in ten, scored 35 goals and conceded 6. We have less of a chance of beating them than they had of beating Real Madrid in reality, but it's still a chance. As always, we need them to be off their game and us to be right up for it and on ours in order to have a chance. I wouldn't bet any money on us, but until we go 2-0 down I'll have hope.

I remember the fans crying out for entertainment when Alexander was apparently stinking the joint up. Under the previous manager we got two draws at Ibrox and a draw at Fir Park against Rangers, which is decent going, but none of that really mattered. He came in when we were looking terrible, and guided us to an 8th place finish, then a 5th place finish and a quarter final in the Scottish Cup in his first full season. All in all, a decent record, even if the season was a bit mental with that run without a win from end of December until March. But, many fans were quick to say that they paid their money to be entertained, so we're getting what we wanted. One way to look at it is if we're in 9th or 10th at the tail end of the season it's going to be exciting watching to see if we can play our way out of relegation trouble. That's maybe better value for money than holding Rangers to a draw at Ibrox and boring 5th or 6th place finish. If we're wanting entertaining football which also puts wins on the board then it's going to be really difficult to get that with our budget. I wouldn't bet on Guardiola accomplishing that at Motherwell, never mind Stevie Hammell. As things are we're certainly easier on the eye, but that comes with more risk and a higher chance of mistakes being made that could cost us. Just the way it is.