David

Depends how long Goodwin lasts at Aberdeen I guess.

I've never been a fan of binning the manager this season, but I'll happily admit that this is a debate that is never over. And neither it should be. He's done a great job overall this season. Top six finish, European football secured. Fantastic, and he and the team deserve a lot of credit. But come the end of the season it's done and dusted. Ground zero, so to speak. It's then on him to make some good moves in the transfer market, identify where we've been lacking and address those issues, and the new season is a fresh slate. If we're sitting 9th or 10th in October or November and the style of football and results haven't improved, his results this season will count for nothing.

Yeah, but they need to be better than what we have already. And maybe the simple fact is that none of the current lot meet that criteria? I'm sure if they did they'd be getting a crack at it.

It will still be a success in my opinion, simply because of how our targets are structured. But it will certainly be seen as a missed opportunity, that's for sure.

In my opinion? Not very.

It was a big part of the reason. Again, if any club is robbed of one of their best players and their top goalscorer and they are unable to replace him adequately it's going to cause problems. Or do you think that's not the case? As someone else pointed out, Watt isn't just a goalscorer. If it was simply a case of losing someone who puts the ball in the net we'd have continued on our pre-Christmas form with Van Veen leading the line. He's a goalscorer, but in no way would he ever be considered our best player. Watt offered goals this season, plus a ton of other factors. As I said above, losing your top scorer and one of, if not the best player in your team will hurt any team. It's just how it goes. And yet, we're in the top six and those poor teams aren't. I've said it elsewhere in the Alexander thread, but there's a reason why most of the teams in the league have all been poor and separated by the finest of margins. The Covid situation, meaning every club had to inflate their squads which spread the budget much thinner, meaning a lack of quality, played a part. The argument that Alexander is a fraud and a failure would stand up if the other clubs were all battering on as normal, and we'd found ourselves finishing 9th or 10th. But that isn't the case. This season has been mental for a reason. And that reason affected most of the clubs in the league. Top six will never be a "minimum expectation" and rightfully so. Thankfully those that are tasked with running the club know that.

His departure is a fairly prominent reason why we've hit the skids post-January. Is it the only reason? Of course not, and I certainly didn't say it was. But there's a reason why he was being talked about for Scotland, and it wasn't just down to his goals. Anyone who watched us when he was in the team could clearly see he was one of, if not the best player in our team. No team, much less a club with our resources, can afford to lose a player of that importance to them and not miss a beat. I'm not sure I buy into opponents "sussing out" our tactics, as if Alexander is somehow a fraud or one-trick pony in a league full of tactical masterminds. It's worth pointing out that while we were busy being shit, the opposition, far from sussing us out, were busy being shit as well! If this season is going to remembered for anything, it's going to be the fine margins that separated the majority of the league. Our squad this season is bloated, for reasons mentioned elsewhere, and the squads of the teams around us are the same. There's a lot of deadwood that needs removed in the summer now that the situation has returned to normal. For the time being at least. Let's not go overboard? We're playing in a league where the top six should realistically be any combination of Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee United and Aberdeen. By quite some margin. Regardless of how poor those around us were, we still made it into the top six, and we're guaranteed the prize money for finishing 6th. Last time I checked that money is still the same even if the teams around us haven't been great. Which means that finishing in the top six is still worth just as much as it would had we been playing in a league full of teams playing really well. The cup is the cup. It all depends on the draw, and how the games go on the day. I'd love a cup run, but it's certainly not something I consider a concrete target. Our target every season from the outset is finishing 10th or better. Once we know that is in the bag we then start looking to potentially finishing in the top six. It seems the general consensus this season is to play down the accomplishments of the team and manager, and focus on the failures, which is fine if that's how people want to play it. But it doesn't change the fact that we've achieved a top six finish this season, with the money that comes with it. We could easily be in the same position as Aberdeen, or Hibs. Or even Dundee. Then the moaners would really have grounds for their negativity!

I thought we looked up for it at the weekend against United. We just didn't convert on any of the chances we got, which seems to be our major problem since selling our top scorer in January.

The same rumours and hearsay that surrounds every club whenever things aren't going well.

Alexander hinted that this was done to ensure we had cover for Covid absences, and that he'd rather work with a smaller squad. Well, now he has his chance. Time for him to get the team together and make the required changes for next season. As mentioned previously, he'll have a few months to get that ironed out otherwise he'll be in danger of losing his job. Personally, I think we'll be top six or thereabouts again next season, playing the type of football that could be described as "industrial" at best, but the board knew that when we hired him. He's a results guy, not an excitement, edge of your seat attractive football guy.

This is key for me. No one is blindly backing him, and no one is pretending that the past few months of football haven't been terrible. If we're sitting in 10th or so come October/November and nothing has changed then the hard questions will need to be answered, and I'm sure they will. But a top six finish, above the likes of Aberdeen and Hibs, surely earns him the chance to restructure the squad post-Covid and put our issues right next season?

We badly need someone to put away one of the chances we've been making. We've hit the woodwork a couple of times lately, and if those go in it makes all the difference.

One thing that's worth considering, although I'm perfectly aware that certain people won't, is the Covid situation up until recently. At the start of the season, Alexander and other managers mentioned the fact that they suddenly had to increase the size of their squads due to the rules around Covid. This didn't mean they had a larger budget to play with though. They found themselves in a position where they had to stretch their current budget to incorporate another load of players who would act as cover if there was an outbreak and players were ruled out due to isolating and suchlike. The fact that virtually every team outside the top three has been playing like they don't know what a football looks like tells us something. If it was just us, we could point at the manager and ask the question of why all the other clubs are coping fine. But it isn't. It's every club almost. So in short, we're probably sitting with a squad a good bit larger than that Alexander would have wanted, and due to that we've had to stretch our budget to accommodate that. I imagine that the likes of Victor Nirennold, Justin Amaluzor etc will all quietly disappear. Hopefully we see the club take the wages that were spent on the larger squad for Covid purposes condensed and used to bring in quality over quantity this season. For me, Alexander deserves immense credit for not only saving us from the relegation mire we faced when Robinson left, but he also navigated the incredibly tricky waters of a season where Covid was wreaking havoc with our game and ensured we not only avoided relegation, but that we're going to secure 6th place at the very least, and the bump in money that finishing 6th over 7th, 8th, or 9th provides. With that said, the reset button is hit come the end of the season. He knows what needs to be done to get us back on track, and it's on him to do it. He's got a summer transfer window where he can bring in players based purely on his desire for them to be in his team and not based on needing extra bodies for Covid emergencies, and if we're still playing shit and we're down near 10th come October or November, he'll be facing the sack like any other manager would. But, let's not kid ourselves on that we're going to start playing like Man City. We all knew what Alexander's teams were like when he came into the job, and more importantly, so did the board. That they hired him in the first place tells you that they place results over entertainment, so we shouldn't expect them to bin the guy due to him not playing entertaining football. Gary Neville got rid of Alexander at Salford looking for something more easy on the eye, and has since admitted he got it wrong: "Last season, to be fair, Graham Alexander should have never left this club last season. I should have never made that decision that I made." And for those claiming Alexander is clueless or a total mug, his record in management doesn't suggest that to be the case at all: Fleetwood Town - Won promotion via the playoffs in his second season Scunthorpe United - Took them to the playoffs and narrowly missed out to Millwall, who were promoted to the Championship Salford City - Won promotion to League Two in his first season, got to the final of the EFL trophy which wasn't played due to Covid. He knows what he's doing. It may not be pretty on the eye, but he's got a history of getting results and accomplishing what he's hired to do.

Our slump coincided with our top striker and one of our best players deciding to piss off to a rival club. I think that was a pretty big part of the reason for our slide post-Christmas.

You could be right, but if I was forced to wager on it, I'd say he's going to be given the first half of next season to get things back on track. If we're looking dodgy by November/December then there's hard questions to answer, but the board have invested in him by handing him a long-term deal, and also by signing players long-term. I don't think they'll throw that away by sacking him if he finishes 5th or 6th.

It's probably worth bearing in mind that it's not as if he's doing he's been doing his job remotely then will speak to the board at the end of the season. He's no doubt been conversing almost daily with Burrows, so they'll know his thoughts and his reasoning behind the fall in results since Christmas. His results this season, which include the top six finish, will earn him the right to try to make the required changes going into next season. He's being paid to manage the team, so it's on him to bring in the right players in the summer and get everything clicking. If he doesn't, and we're languishing at the bottom end of the table in November/December he'll be gone by Christmas. It's that simple really. What we won't do is bin a manager who's hit his targets this season based on the fear that he may not be able to get the job done next season. That would be mental.

It depends really. He's an able backup by all accounts, but certainly wouldn't be my first-choice. I'd rather have him than no one available in that position.

It depends who's available at the time, doesn't it? The players available and the talent levels will differ for each transfer window. It may be that a player who would be a great fit for us in a position we need is available in the summer. I think much of it comes down to a bit of luck, especially when you're operating at the level we are financially.

I'm not so sure it's a case of being unable to recognise a good one, and more a case of not having a good one to choose from. Or even being able to find a good one in our budget.

See, I don't agree that we're at the "win at all costs" stage. We hit that kind of approach when we're sitting 9th or 10th and we're fighting to retain our premier league status. As it is, we've secured top six, so we've hit our target for the season. Europe would be a great bonus, and I certainly want the team to go all-out for that 4th place, but it's certainly not "win at all costs." Although I am pretty sure there will be fans who see us failing to get 4th as a failure on Alexander's part, which would be ridiculous. Exactly. If we're going to give alexander pelters (and rightfully so) for our poor form post-Christmas, we need to give him the credit pre-Christmas.

So you'd want to see him replaced in the summer then?

It's quite simple. He's more than likely going to be judged on the entire season, and quite rightly so, which has been a success as far as our actual results go. When the first ball was kicked this season I seriously doubted we'd make the top six. When the league consists of the teams it does at the moment, the top six should usually be a combination of Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee united, and Aberdeen. I saw that as a tough group to crack, especially considering their wage budgets and overall resources. Our "current form" is that we've just qualified for the top six, we've gotten to the quarter finals of a cup, and we're sitting one single point off fourth place. If we all put aside our "fan brains" and thought about this logically, we'd surely have to accept and realise that the club would have to be daft to sack a manager who has just accomplished the above? Our recent run hasn't been great, but again, we judge on the entire season. The actual league positions, the points. Stephen Robinson parted ways with the club when we were on a winless run of nine games, but were sitting tenth, two points off the bottom of the table. If we find ourselves in a similar position around November or December then I'm sure questions will be asked and a similar result reached. The question I'd ask you is what exactly you want to happen? You're voicing concerns over our form, which is fair enough, but what would you have the club do? Sack a manager in the summer who could potentially get us to fourth in the table? Who at the very least has, over the course of a season, gotten us into the top six? if you don't want to see him gone, then what's the answer? For me, he's been handed a list of requirements at the start of the season, and regardless of how he's done it, he's managed to hit those targets. The football hasn't been pleasing on the eye, the results since Christmas haven't been good enough. But we put enough in the bank early in the season to carry us through, and just as much as Alexander is deserving of criticism for his teams performances post-Christmas, he deserves credit for the performances pre-Christmas surely? He's hit his targets for this season. We still have a chance of a European position. Next season? Well, it all begins again, doesn't it? He's handed the remit that he was at the start of this season, and it's his job to make sure he hits or even exceeds those targets again. If it looks like he's in danger of falling below that remit, just Robinson, he'll likely move on. I'm not going to concern myself with next season until we're a week or so away from kick-off. By the time next season rolls around we'll have a fairly different squad of players. We'll be playing against different teams, and all of those will have different squads, so we really have no idea how it's going to play out. My only concern is seeing us do enough to push for 4th. And if we're honest, that's a nice target to have at this time of the season. I bet Hibs and Aberdeen fans wouldn't mind concerning themselves with that.

The facts are there. You may not like them, but that doesn't make them less relevant.

And yet we qualified top six above sides such as Aberdeen and Hibs, who have, man for man, better players, and a much healthier budget. It must be infuriating when you really want something to be true, but it simply isn't. Are we Barcelona? No. And we're not pretty to watch, but we're not "rank rotten with pish poor players and a manager who hasn't a clue" or we'd be in the bottom six fighting relegation. With this manager in charge it could happen? Based on what? His record at the club so far? His 3 manager of the month awards? His top six finish? Or is your chat about sliding down the leagues all based on absolute nonsense?

No one is actually saying that though. We're not talking about winning a cup over playing in Europe, we're talking about playing the group stages of the League Cup over playing in Europe. There's a huge difference.