MelvinBragg

Knowing you, if you've had more than three pints then probably not...

If we somehow manage to finish top six having lost the SPL player of the year, our best goalkeeper in at least 20 years, our entire right side, our most creative midfielder and our second striker, then McCall should be carried shoulder high around Motherwell. Top six would be that big an achievement, in my opinion...

Aye, my point is made...

Still not sure what I was thinking taking us to finish the game with a clean sheet..

None taken, but I'm sure we'd all have settled for 2-0 beforehand..;-)

Ok, that about time up now, ref?

Sutton 1-0. Good news for those of us with a £1 on 2-0 with Sutton first scorer...

No harm to either player but why are Ainsworth and Anier playing? Twardzik, I have less of an issue with. As Tweed said earlier, goalkeeper is a tricky position to blood a youngster. But I'd imagine both of the outfield loanees would be on their way in January. I'd rather see us play Moore and a U20s winger play. Can't contribute any less than the other two have in recent games...

What's the team?

If the Dundee reserve keeper plays, surely it only shows that McCall wants a result and wants the best possible player in each position and feels he's better than Stewart? Whether I'd do the same is another question. I've already stated in other threads that I'd write off this season and play youngsters. But it's easier for me to say results don't matter than it is for McCall. My job isn't to get wins for Motherwell...

It'll be interesting if the keeper from Dundee plays a blinder tomorrow. No doubt we'll here complaints about why we didn't pick him up for free in the summer rather than Nielsen as I'm pretty sure he'd have been a cheaper option...

I can see why you'd make that point but I'd argue that his track record at replacing players has, until this summer been pretty good. He had barely got his feet under the desk when Blackman and Reynolds left. Brought in a couple of experienced guys to tide us over til the summer. Then Sutton left. That meant twice in six months he had to replace our top scorer. He did that. Brought in Clancy to cover for the fact that Reynolds was no longer there and Craigan was nearing the end of his career. Did he do a job? The fact he got a move to a bigger club suggests so. At the same time he brought in Law. A good signing. Hitting a sticky patch in the winter, he brought in Ojaama to give us a boost. That summer loses Craigan, Clancy and Jennings. Brings in Ramsden (like Clancy, unfancied on his arrival) to cover the defence and eventually finds a way to juggle midfield to play without Jennings. Then in January, loses Murphy. Brings in two players (one a loan, one a free transfer) that will make up for the loss of a goalscoring left winger. Point I'm trying to make is that you can argue McCall isn't a man to rebuild a squad but he's been pretty much doing that every window since his arrival. And some of the "quality" that he's struggled to replace are actually signings he has made himself. Was this summer his finest hour transfer wise? Probably not. But looking at his transfer record overall, I reckon he could make a case that it's the first window he's failed in. Do you decide someone's not good enough if they've had five good games and one bad one? I'm only too aware that McCall has flaws as a manager. But to suggest that he's not the man for the job due to a few dodgy months as we try to bed in half a new team seems harsh...

Just a thought. In the last 18 months we've lost Randolph Hateley Craigan Clancy Humphrey Jennings Law Murphy Higdon Ojaama Add a left back and you have a decent SPL side. I reckon only Hearts have lost the same number of first team players and they're in administration. We've received two transfer fees for those ten players. Bad planning by the club some will say, but how do you sell players when there are no offers on the table? And how do you stop players running down their contracts when they refuse to sign a new one? It's the peril of signing guys who then outperform expectations. Who really thought when we signed Higdon that we'd struggle to keep him beyond his two years? Who thought two years ago that Humphrey would develop into a player that had several offers on the table? Victims of our own success...

His signings in the summer lacked pace and creativity? He went for Vigurs who had a good few assists last season and re-signed McFadden who, on the evidence of Feb-May, was going to bring a lot of guile to the table. I don't recall many complaints when we signed these guys in the summer, unusual for this forum. Have these signings worked out? No. My main criticism of McCall this season would be that he seemed to sign Vigurs on the basis of his stats from last season without figuring out where he'd fit within our team. McFadden, well, that particular mystery has been well discussed on here. On the basis of last season's form no one quibbled with his signing.. Lack of pace in the team? Sure, will give you that. He signed Ainsworth (too late, I grant you) to try and remedy this. Anier is also no slouch. Ainsworth, for me, has looked good in short periods of games but can't seem to sustain it. Anier has contributed a few goals but I'm not convinced by him. Would I keep him? No. But nor do I think he's been a truly terrible signing. Looking at his other summer signings, it's a mixed bag. McManus and Sutton have done enough to justify their signing. Nielsen is no better than Hollis but I think he's a decent keeper providing competition (despite a few howlers, which he seems to be ironing out the more he plays). Kerr has all the tools, inconsistent as hell though. Some weeks looks a real prospect, other weeks looks like a guy who's wandered out of the stands. Given his attributes though, I can understand why McCall gambled on him. He won't be on a massive wage. Lawson is the puzzling one. Decent player (County fans seem to think the loss of him is a major reason they're struggling) but not what we needed. Was his pre-contract arranged when it looked like Carswell might not stay? Not a great transfer window for McCall but he's done not too badly in previous ones so I'd give him a chance to repeat the trick. I know we have no money. Did we not sign Ojaama when we had "no money"? McCall has pulled a few rabbits out of hats before (who thought that Clancy or Ramsden would work out as well?) so you never know...

Only once since 2001 have we sacked our manager. I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at how many managers Hibs and Aberdeen have sacked in that time. Which club has had more success? I'm not saying that there's never a time when getting rid of the manager isn't the answer but for me, a large part of our success has been down to the stability at the club. To me, saying we need to try to find a way to get rid of our manager after a few months of rough form (in the loosest sense, given our league position I'm sure that Ross County or Kilmarnock would kill for our form) without giving him at least a transfer window to turn it around, seems the antithesis of how we've been running our club. And that's before you come to whether McCall has earned the right to be given a chance to turn it around. The fantastic team that finished last season contained five McCall signings. Clearly he's done a good job with previous signings. Did he cover himself in glory with his business this summer? No, but on paper we all liked the look of most of the names he brought in. Vigurs and McFadden have been disappointments but no one saw that coming. Lawson was the only strange one and simply because it wasn't a type of player we needed. I think McCall deserves a chance to try and turn things around...

What seems clear to me is that it's pointless keeping Anier and Ainsworth beyond January. Neither have offered enough to suggest they're worth keeping. We need to bring the young players in now. McCafferty is a winger I've heard good things about. Play him rather than Ainsworth. Play Moore in place of Anier. Will they step up? No, but we won't find out until we give them a run of games. Guys like Leitch, Murray, Kerr and Angol need to be developed. They are our future and McCall MUST work intensively with them in order to know their strengths, where they can fit into a team structure and what he needs to improve in them. Guys like Lasley, Sutton, Ramsden and McManus should be helping these boys through games. Angol and Carswell, in particular, could be crucial as Lasley and Hammell can't go on forever. McCall's other challenge is to sit down with Vigurs and Lawson and figure out how to use them. We have them for another 18 months. If he can't figure out a way to fit them into a side, he needs to try and move them on. Lawson would find a club willing to take him, no problem. I'd imagine Vigurs would get an SPL club as well. And while McCall is working with the young players, Black should be working with the older guys on their fitness. If we're not going to be able to retain possession as well as last season, then we need to be able to hound the opposition for the full 90 minutes. Big challenges for the next six months. But how the club and McCall approach them might determine whether we can maintain our status as a top six SPL club or whether we suffer the fate of Kilmatnock or Dunfermline...

So you know they came looking for trouble, do you? And the act of giving them said trouble if they were indeed looking for it, paints Motherwell fans in a fantastic light. Fights break out, I get that. But you said "got jumped". Seats destroyed, fans "jumped". And people wonder why we get heavy handed stewarding? I despair, I really do...

Frankly that's a disgusting post. Words fail to describe how much of a fucking idiot you are...

Moore. Looked decent. Bad day when that's all you have to do for someone to vote for you though. Lasley was decent first half. Second half, he was kind of nullified as he couldn't make a tackle as the ref would have been only too happy to send him off. Only other player exempt from criticism is Sutton. Lewandowski or Van Persie would struggle to score with the supply he's getting...

Let's be honest, 532 with two defensive midfielders, damage limitation was always our aim tonight. And for 44 minutes, the shape looked okay. Problem was always going to be if/when we conceded a goal. Whether to stick or twist? Clearly the temptation to go for it was too much. Even at 4-0, Ramsden was bombing forward instead of parking the bus when it got to two to try and prevent humiliation. Goals we lost after 2-0 mostly came from space we left in behind our defence. Was tonight a sore one? You bet. Did we learn anything we didn't already know? Not really. Was there a lack of effort from us? No, but the lack of fitness of some players is a concern. Only thing I would say on this front is that the lack of fitness may have been there last season but exposed less as we kept possession better and didn't have to chase opposition players quite so much. Not surprised that our players were knackered after an hour as we probably only had 25% possession. Kind of hard to be constantly having to hunt the ball down.. Disheartening tonight but not enraging as Saturday was..

532 with Kerr and Hammell as WBs? Surely not Kerr at right midfield?

Took my six year old to his first away game today. It's only his third season so he's not had to suffer too much. Given it's probably the worst result I can remember seeing, hopefully it'll be his lowest point. His assessment? The players didn't use their brains. And hard to argue with that. The decision making was atrocious. If that were the only problem today, I'd be less concerned. The problems have been done to death already on this thread. No point me repeating what others have said. What the question is, is what we do from here? I'd be tempted to say flood the team with youngsters but there are a couple of issues there. On the basis of Angol, Carswell, Moore, Cummins and Kerr, are our young players good enough? And can we really justify having the wages of senior players sitting on the bench? I don't honestly know. More worryingly, tonight I don't care that much...

Kerr Ramsden McManus Hammell I'm not panicking about this...

Good to see Kerr getting a few mentions. I like Ramsden a lot but also reckon Kerr has decent potential. If we're to let Hutchinson go in January, I could live with either of the two going in at centre back with the other playing at right back...

Can someone please enlighten me as to what Anier has brought to the team in the last few games? Just asking...