carlukemurray Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I still really like Forbes. I think he can play football. He isn't the quickest but he can pass the ball and is good from a dead ball. His confidence must be at an all time low. I thought the game on Saturday was crying out for someone to get their foot on the ball and play a pass. He started that season with Gannon as manager on fire. Time up at Fir Park though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Aye, deserves a chance elsewhere because he'll no get it here. The last two managers have broken his confidence. Leaving him out after in particular games vs Celtic at FP and Aberdeen at Pittodrie (in fact he might have got 45mins after that one) I think he could have been used in some games when we were crying out for a change of plan and I think a fair crack in his favoured position would have been good. Heaven knows we've soldered through some dips in form elsewhere in the squad. I seen with my own eyes what he's capable of in that early part of Gannon's season and natural ability like that won't leave him. Would genuinely feel some level of genuine pleasure if he returned and played a blinder for some other outfit. The response from 'the faithful' has even out-stripped Higgophobia and no doubt there'll be a line of stand up comics lining up to have a pop at this. Whatever happens over the next few weeks / months I wish him well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don't particularly rate him as an SPL player, he has obvious footballing ability on some level and has a sweet left foot, but he's sadly missing some of the additional tools he would require to succeed at this level - pace, fitness and work ethic spring to mind. I fully expect him to leave in the summer, if not in the last two weeks of January, and I reckon the best bet is we'll see him in the First Division in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Stall Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Agree with that^. However with the exception of the celtic game, he has been rank rotten. But yes, during gannons time, he was excellent& not just his goals he contributed. Remember the league cup game we had against lower oposition? Getting held to a draw at full time& if memory serves me correct he came on in extra time & changed the game! Bossed the midfield, was everywhere, & scored the winner! The boy definatley had something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 That was against ICT. Remember it well. His goal at Perth on the opening day of the season that year is still one of the finest I have seen in person. I do agree with Jay's post though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Diggle Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 If he has it tho, its a managers job to bring it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 he was shown up by amatuers 10 days ago. part of the reason he was succesful under gannon was because he wasn't asked to do much, the left back was expected to push high up the park and he had hateley sitting behind him so he wasn't shown up to often defensively. he did well in the game against celtic but being honest he probably should have been sent off, the ref let him away with murder. he played well in a narrow midfield 4 at aberdeen which limited the amount of running he needed to do. can we count on him to play 90 minutes and put in a shift every week? no and that's why he's finished at fir park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I seen with my own eyes what he's capable of in that early part of Gannon's season and natural ability like that won't leave him. Would genuinely feel some level of genuine pleasure if he returned and played a blinder for some other outfit. Couldny agree more. We see glimpses of it even when he's having a bad game. Any time he gets a wee bit of space with his left foot he has a go if he's within shooting range, you can see the quality in the movement of the ball as soon as it leaves his foot. Same with his passing ability. If he won't come good with us then I really hope he does with someone else. Wasted talent otherwise. he's sadly missing some of the additional tools he would require to succeed at this level - pace, fitness and work ethic spring to mind. First two I'll give you but that's a pretty hefty accusation to level at the guy. Any reason in particular you think this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 First two I'll give you but that's a pretty hefty accusation to level at the guy. Any reason in particular you think this? surely he could be fiiter than he is? a couple of seasons ago we had a corner at celtic park. they broke up the field and forbes was chasing back, the next thing you know craigan ran by him like he was usain bolt. for a young guy to be so bad at running is unexcusable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweed Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 As others have said, decent enough when he has the ball at feet but is far too slow. You have other slower players, for instance Jim Paterson, who was slower than average but his reading of the game earned him two yards of pace and unfortunately Forbes doesn't have that yet. Gannon was a very methodical tactician which was fine until the rest could read it and that suited Forbes as he knew what was coming - as impulse and instinct became necessity he hasn't cut it. Nothing against him as a guy or for his prefessionalism/effort but he just isn't fit enough to play in the SPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 If he has it tho, its a managers job to bring it out True. Fir Park is hardly condusive to supporting players who build their game on confidence though. Younger players in particular have got to be allowed to make mistakes and even go on bad runs of form however that chance rarely lasts more than 2 or 3 games here. Some players can hack it, some can't. Some managers pull them through. That's fitba I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoF Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 surely he could be fiiter than he is? a couple of seasons ago we had a corner at celtic park. they broke up the field and forbes was chasing back, the next thing you know craigan ran by him like he was usain bolt. for a young guy to be so bad at running is unexcusable. I'm mibbe naive here but I think if any manager thought a player was that unfit he wouldn't be at the club, nevermind starting senior games. I've always thought that he must simply be at the peak of his fitness levels, nothing to do with work ethic. That in itself is of course worrying but I still think he can do well in the right system and with a bit of confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 surely he could be fiiter than he is? a couple of seasons ago we had a corner at celtic park. they broke up the field and forbes was chasing back, the next thing you know craigan ran by him like he was usain bolt. for a young guy to be so bad at running is unexcusable. Slow, however, is not the same as unfit. There are plenty of decent players that aren't speedy. Chris Porter is one that springs to mind right off the bat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I still think Forbes could do something for us if he was developed properly. He has a level of ability on the ball that is quite rare and I think we would be foolish to give that away at this point. Obviously there are flaws in his game, mainly athletic ones, but I think it would be to our detriment if the player with the best eye for a penetrating pass didn't have a place at Fir Park. At the end of the day Forbes fate rests with the managers tactics. If we play a 4 midfield as the last two managers have (mostly) then Forbes is probably surplus to requirements. If not, and we play 5 in the 'Gannon' style Forbes comes into contention. Maybe McCall needs to take that option into consideration as on several occasions this seasons teams have shut us down by playing 5 in midfield. It might not be something we want to do every week but in my opinion Stuart McCall needs to show more formational flexibility and as a result should be using Forbes more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weesacs Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 i agree with steelboy and ya beezer.....................for Forbes to succeed, we need to play a 5 man midfield and he needs to have the assurances that he doesnt have to track back (because he cant do it!) he blossomed under Gannon, because Hateley was the deep lying midfielder.....................something I think Hateley still thinks he is - but thats another argument!! Majority will agree he is far better at right back you cant argue he has talent, a sweet left foot, an eye for a pass and excellent at dead balls............but I dont see any manager coming in and building a team around Forbes. If he had the Humps pace...............or the Hump had Forbes footwork, passing ability, delivery of a cross...............they wouldn't be at Motherwell!! time for him to move on for his own sake............although he may look at Fitzpatrick and think I aint going anywhere!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liquid_football Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Slow, however, is not the same as unfit. There are plenty of decent players that aren't speedy. Chris Porter is one that springs to mind right off the bat. This. Couple of folk here seem to be under the impression that pace and fitness are the same thing. Also, now the reserve league is gone, it's a lot harder for fringe players to get match fit, bounce games will only take them so far. Playing a regular 90 minutes is the best way to get fitness levels up and keep them there. There's only so much you can do in the gym. If Forbes isn't getting the game time, you can't expect him to be in top condition. I hope he stays personally, at least until the end of the season. Good option to have in the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 This. Couple of folk here seem to be under the impression that pace and fitness are the same thing. Also, now the reserve league is gone, it's a lot harder for fringe players to get match fit, bounce games will only take them so far. Playing a regular 90 minutes is the best way to get fitness levels up and keep them there. There's only so much you can do in the gym. If Forbes isn't getting the game time, you can't expect him to be in top condition. I hope he stays personally, at least until the end of the season. Good option to have in the squad. i would challenge his fitness due to the number of times he has to be subbed off after an hour and the occasions where he was been subbed on in the first half and subbed back off in the second half due to being gubbed. you also see his decision making declining after about 55 minutes of games and he starts playing terrible passes. if we're just talking pace it can be improved through technique. craigan has spoken about going to see sprinting coaches, i'm sure someone with track experience could help forbes to develop but he is just as slow as he was two years ago. saying that you need games to be fit is rubbish. are mo farah and jessica ennis preparing for the olympics by playing football matches? no. plenty of people achieve a far higher level of fitness than any of our players soley in the gym and on a track. i'd also say it looks like most of our players fitness levels have declined since the beginning of the season - hateley, lalsey, murphy and law in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat_tony Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 saying that you need games to be fit is rubbish. are mo farah and jessica ennis preparing for the olympics by playing football matches? no. plenty of people achieve a far higher level of fitness than any of our players soley in the gym and on a track. i'd also say looks like most of our players fitness levels have declined since the beginning of the season - hateley, lalsey, murphy and law in particular. You're being rather pedantic there. There's a big difference between fitness in terms of running on a track and a football match. Track atheletes are geared towards high levels of performance for a short time, football players need to do it in bursts over and extended period, switching from high to low intensity and back again many times. While you can build up things like stamina to a certain level, the best way to train for any type of competition is to practice at the same thing. Why do you think teams play pre-season matches etc? At this stage in the season, players who are playing every week are likely to be quite knackered as well, so I'd say you're talking about a different problem there with Hateley, Lasley et al. It'll be more tiredness with them than lack of match fitness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 This. Couple of folk here seem to be under the impression that pace and fitness are the same thing. I've not seen anyone on here suggesting pace and fitness are the same thing. No one has suggested he should swan onto the park from the bench looking like a beacon of fitness, but there have been numerous times in the last year or two where he's been introduced as a substitute and looked as though he's blowing out his arse after less than half the time the rest of the team have been on the park. That, to me, suggests he's either unfit or lazy - neither of which are attributes associated with a player who will succeed at this level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Why do you think teams play pre-season matches etc? to get back into the rhythm of playing football, formations, tactics, movement etc. forbes obviously needs that as well but he clearly has problems with his basic fitness levels that he should be able to improve with through training (and if he is incapable he has no future as pro player). there were part time amatuer players in the queens park who looked in better condition than him the other week, how do you explain that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyin Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 to get back into the rhythm of playing football, formations, tactics, movement etc. forbes obviously needs that as well but he clearly has problems with his basic fitness levels that he should be able to improve with through training (and if he is incapable he has no future as pro player). there were part time amatuer players in the queens park who looked in better condition than him the other week, how do you explain that? That, as for Higdon, you have a pathological dislike of Forbes and nothing he does will change your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 'pathological dislike' maybe it's just that i've seen them play and know their strengths and weaknesses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshi-1991 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 I would preffer we sent him out on loan somwhere that he will get a game every week and show what he can realy do and build up form. warming the bench every week is doing him fuck all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEWELL Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 In reply to the original post is his time up it's a yes from me he's not SPL standard and hope he gets a move to the likes of Accies or Partick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Wellfan 2k7 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Share Posted January 18, 2012 Take it I'm the only one who still rates Forbes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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