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Nah probably no cards but they all seem to turn up at matches wearing the same clothes every week, some with matching balaclavas that might indicate some organisation or it might just be coincidence.

Id be amazed if they have anything that defines them as members of whatever group

First of all, if talking gets the job done, fair enough, .mission accomplished, although its a bit late. The above is what confuses me too, block e and the bois are 2 different groups? Do they have membership cards and strict rules? To me they are mostly young guys who stand in a certain bit and bang a drum. The ones who cost us money are members of " the fuds"...so thats now at least 3 groups there. As I have said before, its all very " peoples front of Judea".

SOD also brings the experience we have been sorely missing in a few recent games when we needed a leader on the pitch that can help refocus the younger players and help them stick to the plan.

SOD is so slow these days he's not viable as anything other than a hold-the-line type defender. If your tactics are to sit deep and play with 4 or 5 across the 18 yard line, fine, but I don't think that's how I'd be approaching this match. I think SOD's role these days is to come on late in the match to shore us up defensively. As an out ball, not so much, especially against Celtic who play with pacy wingers.

Just something I noticed about the Old Firm, and hopefully I don't put a curse on us by mentioning it, but between them Rangers and Celtic have spent close to £80,000,000 on transfer fees this summer alone and yet despite this 12 out of the 14 league matches they have played this season have have had 1 or less goals between them and their opponent. That's an incredible amount of money to drop in Scottish football to basically drop points or scrap past teams with a tiny fraction of their spending power.

My take on it is the club like to portray us as this wee cuddly,family friendly inclusive community and anything that affects that is quietly dealt with in house. In other words we don't like washing our dirty linen in public which is probably a good thing in terms of projecting a positive public image. However when things start to cost us money and threaten our reputation as that nice wee fan owned club then I think we need to adopt a tougher approach. I really hope common sense prevails and the planned meetings resolve the issues but if that doesn't work the club really has to get tough and spell out the consequences whatever they might be with an iron fist in a velvet glove if need be.

Thats been part of my point for a while...the club may be happy to pay the whole thing lip service, and it seems that way.

Its all very well having a healthy debate on the subject, its good to get everyomes viewpoint and opinions but the stark reallity is that the club and the WS are doing feck all despite having ample time to come up with a solution, a bit like the POD seating shambles The nice social media statements asking fans to stop havent worked, the next round of cosy chats with those perceived to be involved may make a difference, but if they dont whats the clubs and the WS's next move?

This is what I've said:

We differ because you suggested the club should defer any punishment until after the police process is completed. That’s what I took you to mean anyway. I suggested that where the Club have sufficient, definitive evidence there is no need to delay and appropriate action/banning should be immediate. I understood you wanted no banning until after the police action was complete, possibly months later. If I misunderstood, then apologies.

Dear oh dear...mind the boy that assaulted Leighton? Running out from the Cooper...your answer would have been close the Cooper Stand 🤔🫣

So when I say "anyone actively breaking the law should be dealt with by the authorities, and the club should, whenever possible, ban and revoke season tickets" you agree? I don't understand the conversation we seem to be having? So if someone, for whatever reason, decides to run onto the pitch, or otherwise violates the stadium code of conduct, and they happen to have a ticket for the section you sit in, the same rule should apply?

Quite easily, if the pyro displays, pitch incursions, or any other violation of the stadium code of conduct was seen to originate from a certain area of the ground, then suspend all ST't in that area and dont sell tickets for any infividual seats, .

The Courts and Police are snowed under as it is. How many of these referrals would actually lead to a conviction or even a court appearance no matter how well supported by evidence? And those that did reach Court would take months. Many would just result in a warning to avoid flooding the Courts.. As currently happens the Police will independently intervene in the event of more serious cases....assault as I gave earlier as an example. Where evidence is clear the Club should take immediate action, then pass details to the Police and let them decide whether to take further action. They can judge whether legal thresholds have been exceeded. That's their job. Dealing with the football side of things is the responsibility of Motherwell, not the Police. Delaying any ban only makes Motherwell look impotent and increases the possibility of repeat offences. As I say, passing the buck to look less like the bad guys. Personally I don't want to see any Motherwell fan up in Court. But I do want to see the Club taking strong enough action to address the behaviour that is costing the club tens of thousands. IF earlier comments are accurate regarding Instagram posts, what are your thoughts on a Society Board Member celebrating behaviour in Freiburg that resulted in our most recent fine? As well as the graffiti work on trains/buses. Must make it difficult for the Society as a body and perhaps explains their silence on this matter.

Obviously I mean that any infringement of the law is dealt with by the law in the country where the offence took place. Motherwell is a Scottish club. So I mentioned Scottish law. If a Motherwell fan assaulted someone while following our club in Europe, I obviously wouldn't expect the Scottish authorities to deal with it. The same applies here. Scotland explicitly criminalises football-match possession of pyro. From what I can see, Germany regulates pyro mainly through general explosives law and stadium/football regulations. We could potentially identify the culprits and deal with them at club level, as I mentioned previously.

We were fined 20,000 Euros for fans discharging pyro in Germany. Even if we were able to identify them, I can't see the Scottish police taking any action.

No one is saying that, though, especially not me. I said if anyone is seen to be breaking the law (and under the Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles Scotland Act 2022, it is an offence to possess pyrotechnic articles at designated sporting events) then they should be dealt with accordingly by the authorities, as well as "alongside their season ticket being revoked and them personally being banned."

Do you think Block E, the Bois, or whatever they are called this week walk about with Membership cards in their wallets? How do you ban 'a group' from Fir Park? I keep referring to the lad, who left the stand against Freiburg, if the club wanted to lay down a marker, then he'd be the best way to go about it. Maybe the club think its not worth the hassle, or think the fine is worth paying, or think (inwardly) that the fine for it is ridiculous...I dont know, but I do find it odd that its never been dealt with, as I reckon someone will know who he is.

The club have the final say who gets into the ground or not, they are judge and jury re any alleged infringements of the ground rules, code of conduct etc not the police. So the club can ban any individual or group they want from the ground, suspend ST's etc If however these infringements also break any current laws in force then yes the police should be involved as they have a duty of care re public saftey, although i would not hold my breath waiting for that to happen. Nothing is difficult here, how much cash are the club willing to waste on fines and sanctions before they take decisive action, instead of sitting back paying the fines and hoping the problem will go away.

I agree action could only work on an individual basis. Season Ticket holder or not, that should be the route taken. Groups should not be penalised for the actions of one or two. But Motherwell simply identifying individuals and then passing the buck to the police and Court System is nonsense. It's Motherwell who are falling foul of the Authorities, so it's up to them to come up with an effective, direct solution. If the police witness instances where they believe the Courts should be involved....assault as an example....then that's down to them. As is happening elsewhere. This is Motherwell's problem to solve and they have the means available. Like any other business they are entitled to exclude anyone who disrupts that business. Whether they are willing to use that right appears to be the issue.

There's no middle ground then? It's either come in and read the riot act and issue threats, or do nothing? Here's a question. You say that areas of the stadium should be closed if people don't toe the line. Cool. What about season ticket holders in that area who aren't guilty of anything? Are you forcing them to move seats? Where are you putting them? Or are you telling someone who happens to sit in that section of the ground that they're out on their ear because someone lit a flare? Season ticket paid for, but no longer valid? That's a nice little court case waiting to happen. Unless you have some answer to the above that would legally cover the arse of the club, then it's unworkable. The situation can easily be remedied. You don't aim any messaging or threats at any "groups", you simply say that anyone who is identified as breaking the law will have their details handed to the police. Simple as that. From there, it will be the decision of the country's legal framework to decide what happens, alongside their season ticket being revoked and them personally being banned.

Aye ok then, have lots of negotiations and ask them all nicely to behave knowing they will ignore you because they know nothing will happen. Then the club can start to worry about the next lot of fines or sanctions heading to Fir park for the club to cover, tens of thousands wasted due to their inabillity or willingness to take any action.

Is there a single instance in the history of football where being heavy-handed, banning groups of people from grounds, shutting areas of the stadium and so on has actually ever worked long-term? We've seen it tried in this country and others. That approach doesn't work.