David
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Posts posted by David
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12 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:
I think you are confusing the entire Motherwell Support for this place.
If we win tomorrow Im pretty sure the entire 1700 Motherwell fans or whatever the number is will go mental and appreciate the players for keeping a dream alive.
Whether we like it or not, this forum is a mirror of our broader fanbase.
Forums like this one are a small-scale representation of the wider support in the real world. Admittedly, the more negative voices may be louder here than they are in the stadium, but they still exist in comparable proportions, in my opinion.
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17 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:
The fans will accept a defeat if we go down fighting trying to play football and creating chances.
I'm pretty certain that would not be the case. In nearly forty years of following Motherwell, I can count on one hand the times fans have walked away from a cup defeat saying, "Well, we lost to a team destined for relegation, but at least we went down fighting! Fair play to the manager and players for that effort!"
We all know that even if we do win, there’ll be the usual crowd reluctant to offer any sort of credit to the team or the manager. Instead, it’ll be a discussion of how poor the opposition were, how we should have beaten them anyway, and the usual nitpicking about aspects of our performance.
And of course, we can’t forget the classic, “Why don’t we play like that every week?” if we happen to put in a good shift and everything clicks for us.
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1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:
Does he really though?
Last seasons midfield was Spittal, Miller, Paton and Slattery. He then signed Nicholson in the window when Slattery was injured. Bair was a big boy, but not your traditional target man until he worked out how to better use his physicality.
Was the same in the van Veen season.
I see the current style of play as a means to an end because our entire midfield was basically injured at the start of the season. I had expected it to improve by now but further injuries have conspired against us.
That’s an excellent point.
We should also consider that the pool of available midfielders in January is likely to be quite limited, especially for a club that can’t afford to spend millions or offer substantial wages. Additionally, as Joe mentioned, we’ve got a few midfielders currently sidelined with injuries who are expected to return at various points this season.
The key question is: what’s the standard of midfielders available right now in the January window? Is the quality we need even out there? Furthermore, among those who meet the required standard, how many would actually be keen to join a club where competition for places could become very intense once others regain fitness? Many larger clubs insist on guaranteed game time for players they send out on loan, which may complicate matters. I suspect this is why West Ham recalled Hegyi.
There are a lot of variables to consider, and I believe our style of play and formation are heavily influenced by the players we have fit and ready for selection.
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6 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:
Another one for the Physio to work on , the Physio must love SK
I’ve never paid much attention to him before, but looking at his recent stats, am I overlooking something? He played 37 matches last season, 36 the season prior, and 41 the season before that. Is he typically seen as an injury risk?
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1 hour ago, FirParkCornerExile said:
Apologies I amended my reply to you. I was looking at Wellgirls reply at the time.
No worries, it happens to us all at some point, the discussions are so back & forth it's easy to do.
1 hour ago, FirParkCornerExile said:In relation to some people assertion that the financial gulf between us and 4 or 5 other teams is a severe one , I don't agree , its over blown. That's not to say it never will be if the Well society don't realise their plans to increase or income streams and attendances.
While I wouldn’t describe it as "severe," I do believe the issue of ownership plays a role. I’m as much of a supporter of our fan ownership model as anyone—of course, I am—but it does impact our ability to compete with clubs that are backed by wealthy owners or majority shareholders. That’s simply the reality of the situation. I’m not complaining about it, particularly since, in the main, we’ve outperformed those clubs where it truly counts—on the pitch.
As we’ve seen, spending more on players doesn’t necessarily guarantee success. However, it’s undeniable that if a club has greater financial resources and uses them wisely, it’s more likely to achieve better results than those with less funds at their disposal.
That said, our recent track record shows we’re actually doing quite well against the clubs around us, for the most part.
1 hour ago, FirParkCornerExile said:The staffing costs are the staffing costs and we paid them. You are correct its not straightforward, that's why I said these figures will ebb and flow season to season because clubs will come into funds and have reduced funds depending on the season they have. Before anyone pipes up I know we ran a deficit in 2023, so did St Mirren, so did Kilmarnock. Kilmarnock's even bigger than ours at £1.9 million.
Do bear in mind that having higher staffing costs doesn’t automatically mean we’re paying, or even in a position to pay, more in player wages or transfer fees compared to the other clubs you’ve mentioned.
On the deficits you’ve pointed out, it’s worth highlighting the role ownership plays in that. For instance, a club like Kilmarnock benefits from Billy Bowie, who has the ability to dip into his own resources to cover such shortfalls. We, on the other hand, don’t have that luxury, which is precisely why we need to be cautious about overextending ourselves on player salaries. It’s vital to ensure we avoid putting the club at risk of financial difficulties.
2 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:As for KVV he cost Kilmarnock £140,000 for 6 months. Why the Kilmarnock Director personally funded it is their business, maybe because they were running a £1.9 million pound loss!! . If Motherwell had had an urgent unexpected bill for £200,000 is anyone seriously saying we couldn't have paid for it. Of course we could, so to suggest we couldn't have raised £140,000 to pay for KVV is nonsense. We made a sound financial decision not to sign him. Any club can make stupid irrational signings if they wish. Had the club desperately wanted him they could have raised the money , would have been a crazy decision but they could do it. Christ the Well Society is sitting on £750,000 the club could have asked them had they been so desperate to get him.
There’s a distinction to be made between an unforeseen, urgent expense and choosing to commit to a cost for a player when it isn’t a necessity, isn’t there? And while it’s true that the Society has funds in reserve, I’m not entirely convinced the board would have been willing to allocate as much as £140,000 of members’ contributions to fund the wages of a player we'd only have at the club on loan.
2 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:Finally going by the logic offered in the argument that we cant compete financially with clubs mentioned, that means Hibs cant compete with Hearts , is anyone seriously suggesting that's the case?
I’m not entirely sure about the situation with Hibs and Hearts, to be honest. However, when it comes to us and other clubs in a similar position, I believe it largely comes down to the financial support that owners or majority shareholders at those clubs can offer. They often have that safety net to fall back on if needed, whereas we simply don’t have that luxury.
In a way, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. We’re forced to operate within our means, which is how it should be. Clubs that spend beyond their income tend to end up in serious trouble sooner or later—unless, of course, there’s someone willing to absorb the debts.
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6 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:
To suggest we cant compete with RC , Kilmarnock, St Mirren and St Johnstone because they pay far bigger wages is nonsense.
Did you see where I said the following?
40 minutes ago, David said:In the past five seasons, Kilmarnock have only finished above us in the league once. St Mirren have managed it twice, St Johnstone once, and Ross County haven’t done so at all. And this season so far? Not a single one of those teams is ahead of us in the table.
So we are competing. And more often than not, we're bettering them.
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19 hours ago, thewelllfan said:
Now we have to recruit a LWB and a Striker with a bit more of a presence ideally in the mould of Moult or KVV where they are physical with a bit of mobility.
If he was given these things as well as maybe a ball player at CB we should in theory become easier on the eye.
It goes without saying that the club would love nothing more than to dive into the transfer market and secure a top-quality left wing-back with similar attributes to Kaleta on the opposite side, for instance, as well as a striker in the mould of Moult or Van Veen.
If such players were available, affordable, and interested in joining Motherwell, there’s no doubt we’d pursue them, just as we have done successfully in the past. However, the reality is that the market largely dictates our options. We operate within a specific bracket of the transfer market during both the summer and January windows, where our focus is on identifying players who meet our criteria, fit within our wage structure, and, most critically, are willing to make the move to Motherwell. This typically means they have a personal reason for relocating to this part of Scotland, they’re coming on loan with their parent club viewing the move as beneficial to their development, or they don’t have stronger offers from elsewhere.
The challenge arises when these opportunities aren’t materialising during a particular window. What then? While we’ve managed to recruit quality players in the past, it often requires everything falling perfectly into place to make it happen.
14 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:The competing with teams who a pay more is overblown.
The reality is, not only are we holding our own against teams that often have the means to spend more on players, but we’re actually outperforming them more often than not.
In the past five seasons, Kilmarnock have only finished above us in the league once. St Mirren have managed it twice, St Johnstone once, and Ross County haven’t done so at all. And this season so far? Not a single one of those teams is ahead of us in the table.
12 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:We could have paid KVV what he was asking for, to suggest we couldn't is nonsense. Kilmarnock paid him £7 grand a week for 20 weeks £140,000, a Kilmarnock Director was willing to pay that from his own money, thankfully we dont have any idiots whod do that...... we spent more than that to bring Stamma in. So its not that we dont have access to money but we wisely chose not to pay KVV that money cos he wasn't worth it .
Transfer fees often involve structured payment plans, with specific milestones triggering additional payments. In many cases, these fees are spread over several years. The expectation is usually that the investment will yield returns, whether through the player’s on-field contributions or future sell-on potential – especially when signing a 25-year-old with resale value.
Wages, however, are a completely different matter. For a start, bringing in a player on a significantly higher salary than anyone else at the club can create tension within the squad. It also establishes a benchmark that complicates future contract negotiations.
As for your point about Van Veen, you suggest we could have matched his wage demands. Surely, by that logic, Kilmarnock could have done the same, couldn’t they? If so, why did a director have to personally contribute from his own funds?
12 hours ago, FirParkCornerExile said:Last published Accounts online and at companies house to 2023
Motherwells staff costs were £5.2 million
St Mirrens staff costs were £3.82 million
Kilmarnocks staff costs were £3.71 million
St Johnstones staff costs were £3.96 million
Do the reported staff costs include all club employees or just the playing staff? I wonder if they also account for payments made to the various managers we've had in the year or so leading up to those accounts, along with their coaching teams and associated costs.
As with most things, it’s not a straightforward matter. What’s frustrating is that if many of our supporters had their way, we’d constantly be paying out to replace managers and coaching staff, which would only serve to keep our staff expenses consistently high.
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37 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:
OK, that's me telt. Hold on while I go and try and find my nose 🤪
😂
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12 hours ago, grizzlyg said:
Just my view but I think this has been covered enough now. Let's now focus on Saturday.....any win will do as Joseph sang about his technicolour dreamcoat
So you’ve posted in the thread titled "Are Motherwell Entertaining?" only to propose that we abandon the discussion and focus instead on Saturday’s match—which already has its own thread?
The whole point of having multiple threads is to allow for different discussions to take place 😆
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1 hour ago, wellfan said:
I must commend you on the fine job you’re doing in your role as Kettlewell’s PR manager.
What I’ve said doesn’t specifically relate to Kettlewell; it could just as easily apply to any manager we’ve had who’s found themselves in similar situations. In fact, most of our recent managers have faced the very same challenges.
I believe that’s why, no matter who’s at the helm, we often see the same supporters complaining about the same issues and being critical of whoever holds the role.
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11 hours ago, dennyc said:
Given those clubs record you highlight, it is even more disappointing that we were so timid when facing them.
Some would say we are on a poor run right now and are drifting downwards.
I didn’t single out those clubs – you did. I simply responded. And, frankly, you’ve completely disregarded my points about the quality of players. How many of our players would walk straight into the Hibs or Hearts squads? And how many of theirs would make it into ours? Yes, those teams may not be performing cohesively at the moment (although Hibs are unbeaten in their last five matches and Hearts have only lost one in the same stretch, so it could be argued they’re starting to find their rhythm). Still, they’re clearly not playing to the standard expected, given the calibre of their squads. That, more than anything, likely comes down to coaching and management. Meanwhile, you could argue that we’re exceeding expectations by comparison, which is also a credit to our coaching and management.
When it comes to budget, club stature, and player quality, the top six in Scotland this season should, in most cases, include Rangers, Celtic, Dundee United, Aberdeen, Hearts, and Hibs in some order.
As for our current form, some might say we’re on a poor run. I wouldn’t go that far, but I can see why others might feel that way. However, as with most things, context is key. Everyone knew that facing six matches in sixteen days – essentially a game every 3.2 days – would severely test the depth of our squad. We’re simply not the sort of club with the resources to field a squad capable of handling such a gruelling schedule without consequences.
On top of that, let’s not forget who we were up against during that period: Celtic away, Rangers at home three days later, Hearts away, Aberdeen at home, Kilmarnock on that dreadful plastic pitch, and Hibs away. And that doesn’t even account for the fact we lost some of our most important players during that time – our best player, our goalkeeper, our new striker, and our captain were all sidelined by injuries.
When I look back on that spell, I think taking a point against Rangers, three against Aberdeen, and another point at Kilmarnock is a respectable return.
Before that difficult run, we’d had two poor results against Hibs and Dundee, which weren’t good enough. But following that, we took seven points from three games – a win at St Mirren, a victory over Dundee United at home, and a point against Kilmarnock.
Now that the intense stretch of fixtures is behind us, we’ve had a week to rest and reset, and we’re ready to go again on Saturday.
12 hours ago, dennyc said:Perhaps it is about attitude, positivity and carrying previous successes into games in addition to those factors you list. The impetus we had after the Aberdeen victory is gone. And that's not just down to the players.
Perhaps it is about not repeating an approach to away games that has failed miserably three games in a row and hands our opponents a head start. Perhaps it is about learning from previous outcomes and being less predictable. We did not do ourselves justice at Hearts, Killie or Hibs. Had we shown up, competed but still only amassed one point I would be more supportive of our Manager. But we didn't. Each game was a mirror of the previous one. Rinse and repeat.
Could those factors be at play? Possibly. But just as you might argue they could be, I can equally argue they might not. That’s precisely why I prefer to focus on certainties whenever possible. Those factors you mention might have influenced things, but the reality is we face opponents with differing styles, on various pitches, in constantly changing weather conditions. Our own players are at different stages of fitness and coping with varying degrees of fatigue, all while playing a match every 3.2 days on average.
There’s no "perhaps" about what I’ve just outlined. Those are indisputable facts, and I’d rather consider them first before speculating about other factors that might have an impact.
12 hours ago, dennyc said:So we should just accept what we have been served up recently and stop demanding improvement?
Of course, it’s fair to look for improvement. However, to demand it without considering the factors I’ve outlined above comes across as a bit unrealistic, in my view.
That said, if you believe that a club with our budget – and, as a result, the squad depth and quality that come with it – should be performing at 100% while playing a match every 3.2 days over a period of more than two weeks, all while delivering entertaining football, missing some of our key players, and contending with some rather challenging conditions, then you’re entitled to that opinion.
12 hours ago, dennyc said:It was also noticeable that the number of 'Well fans at the game was far less than at Easter Road earlier in the season. Even The Bois, who deserve praise for the support they offered, were much reduced. Maybe partly due to the weather but I fear Tynecastle and Rugby Park played a part. 3900 home fans v Aberdeen. I wonder how many will be at the next Fir Park match should we fail twice in Perth. Or at the next away game where Season Tickets do not play a part.
We’ll revisit those figures in a few months, once the weather has improved and the fixture schedule has eased up a bit. This time of year is typically one where many people have less disposable income, so it’s no surprise the numbers might be affected. I’ll gladly take a closer look at the attendance stats down the line.
12 hours ago, dennyc said:So in answer to another of your points.....Yes, I do believe a Manager has a responsibility to enable performances that do not drive fans away. Irrespective of injuries or who our opponents are.
That’s perfectly fair. I don’t see it the same way, of course, and I do consider the various factors involved. However, you’re entirely entitled to disregard them if that’s how you feel. That’s all part of being a supporter.
12 hours ago, dennyc said:Out of curiosity, what did you think of the performance in Edinburgh, particularly that first half? Or at those other two games. Because you knew what to expect, did the performance not really matter?
Performance always matters. I’ve never been one to think otherwise because it does. That said, I’d much rather we grind out a scrappy 1-0 win than lose a thrilling match 4-3, as I’ve mentioned before.
As for the Hibs game, I saw a team that looked like it had reached the end of a gruelling run of fixtures and was running on fumes.
We looked like a side without our usual goalkeeper, who had done well since coming in this season, and instead had to rely on a 23-year-old replacement. This lad had only just arrived at the club the day before and, as far as I can tell, hadn’t played a senior match all season.
We looked like a side whose captain, returning from three months out, made his first start only to come off injured after 30 minutes.
We looked like a team missing our best player – one of the brightest young midfield talents in the country right now.
We looked like a side without our new first-choice striker, who had started to find form before his injury.
We looked like a team coming to rely on three young players over the recent busy period – Wilson, Maswanhise, and Kaleta – two of whom are 20, while the other is 22. These kids spent last season playing a mix of under-21 and Scottish League One football, and are now effectively in their first full season of serious senior-level competition.
In short, we looked like a team that’s been through the wringer. If you’d asked me to outline a worst-case scenario before we faced Celtic away on Boxing Day, I’d have probably said something like losing Stama and Lennon to injury, losing both our first-choice and back-up keepers for various reasons, and seeing Paul McGinn return from injury only to get sidelined again.
If you’d told me we’d have to cope with all of that during a packed schedule, then go on to lose to Celtic, draw with Rangers, lose away to Hearts, beat Aberdeen at home, draw away to Kilmarnock, and lose away to Hibs, I’d have said that sounds about right.
Ultimately, though, people will think what they want to think. It’s clear we’re not going to see eye-to-eye on this, so there’s no point endlessly rehashing it. What I’ve outlined here reflects how I view this recent run of games. I’ve tried to focus on the facts rather than speculate or second-guess the manager and coaching staff. They’re in their roles for a reason, while you and I are here as fans, paying to watch them do their job.
Let’s see how things unfold over the coming weeks. Hopefully, we’ll see a bit of relief on the injury front and pick up some results along the way. With the squad as it stands, I’m not expecting a winning streak any time soon. It’s going to be tough, but with a bit of luck, we can nick a result in the cup and keep ourselves in the conversation for a top-six finish.
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18 minutes ago, dennyc said:
The first half performances, tactics and set ups at Tynecastle, Rugby Park and Easter Road suggest otherwise. They suggest a Manager desperate to avoid defeat rather than a Manager setting out to win. Persisting with those same tactics three away games in a row was madness given previous outcomes and reeks of stubbornness or an inability to come up with alternatives. Those three teams have been inconsistent (shite) all season and are not teams we should have been frightened to have a go at. Every one of them was as fragile as we are. Kettlewell handed them the initiative right from kick off so it was not a big ask for them to push forward. We did nothing to stop them. In the first half against those three teams, how many attempts on goal did we have, never mind attempts that tested their goalkeepers?
Kettlewell’s approach to setting up the team has, by and large, been effective. When you compare us to the teams you’ve mentioned – all of which operate with larger budgets, two of them being much bigger clubs in major cities – the results speak for themselves. We’ve won two more matches than Hibs and three more than both Kilmarnock and Hearts.
Of course, if we were to go on a poor run of form and start slipping down the table, there would naturally be questions to address. However, it’s difficult to criticise the manager for sticking to the tactics and strategies that have placed us in the top six during the first half of the season.
It’s also worth bearing in mind that, particularly in the cases of Hearts and Hibs, even though their form has been below par, they still have squads that, on paper, are stronger than ours. In fact, I’d be far more concerned if our manager were to approach games against sides with the quality of players they possess under the assumption that they’re merely "inconsistent shite".
24 minutes ago, dennyc said:As for not trying to win against the Old Firm, do you really believe we did not try to beat Rangers a few games ago? Had our Manager adopted that same approach to those three away games perhaps we would have gotten a better return than the miracle point we stole from Kilmarnock. God knows what his approach will be if the downward trend continues and we drift nearer the relegation battle.
Many of the factors I’ve previously mentioned come into play here. If managing at the top level were as straightforward as setting up your team and saying, "Just play the same way we did against Rangers, and we’ll be fine," it would be an incredibly simple job. But the reality is far more complex. Every match presents unique challenges. We face different opponents with varying styles, on different pitches, in changing weather conditions. Add to that the fact that our own players are at different stages of fitness and dealing with varying levels of fatigue, and the situation becomes even more intricate.
This isn’t an excuse, by the way—just the plain truth. These are the variables we have to contend with, whether we like it or not.
26 minutes ago, dennyc said:Your defence of Kettlewell is robust. But I wonder how many of those fans that spent good money to attend those three away fixtures agree with you. Those fans were short changed on and off the pitch.
I assume those fans are Motherwell supporters, and as such, they’re fully aware of what they’re paying to watch. It’s no secret. Like the majority of teams in Scottish football, the style of play isn’t exactly easy on the eye, and the quality often suffers due to the conditions we insist on enduring by sticking to the frankly baffling decision to play through the winter months.
Put Barcelona or Real Madrid on that Rugby Park pitch in -3°C temperatures during a typical Scottish winter and see how much free-flowing football they manage to produce.
In a sense, fans know exactly what they’re signing up for. We’re all well aware of the standard of the product on offer.
29 minutes ago, dennyc said:Are Motherwell entertaining?
On the whole, we’re neither more nor less entertaining than most teams that compete at our level.
Here’s a question to consider: should producing exciting, entertaining football be part of a manager’s job at a club like ours? I don’t claim to know more than the average fan, but I’d imagine the main measure of success is avoiding relegation first and foremost, aiming for a top-six finish if possible, putting together a decent cup run, and perhaps developing players we can eventually sell on for a profit.
Right now, we’re not in the relegation zone, we’re sitting in the top six, we’ve made it to a cup semi-final, and we’ve got a few players in the squad who look like they could grow into assets that bring in some money for the club.
So, is that success for the manager? It’s a genuine question. Or is he expected to achieve all of that—likely on one of the smallest budgets in the league—while also delivering football that’s exciting and entertaining to watch?
Maybe the real question is about the manager’s actual remit and the KPIs he’s been given. If the targets set by the club are broadly what we think they are, then he’s delivering. And it’s worth remembering that the last time we let go of a manager who was meeting those kinds of expectations but who the fans wanted more from, we ended up in a right mess, with the club spiralling into chaos for a while.
Saying that, I do know a few fans of other clubs who found that whole saga quite entertaining, if nothing else!
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6 minutes ago, Big Stall said:
Im sure we dont activley do it, but we certainly do not go out to enforce our game on the opposition & make chances to win. You mention the old firm & if you take Rangers, this is the head scratching example.
Semi final, Rangers were in dire straights leading up to that game & low on confidence. We deliberatley sat back & allowed them to dictate. Countless examples of Seddon getting to half way line with acres of space infront of him to progress forward but he would stop & play a diagonal ball. A clear instruction. We then followed up with similarly toothless displays against Ross C & Hibs.
Contrast that with the December game against Rangers where we set out to do damage & managed to carry it off. Last 15 mins v Kilmarnock at Fir Park, down to 10 men we hsve a go & look as dynamic as we have done all season. Its astonishing that we clearly have players with enough guile to take the game to our opponents yet our manager is happy to keep them shakled.
Iv said it before, he shouldnt get sacked but he is not learning from his mistakes.
When it comes to the manager and coaching team, I'm reluctant to second-guess them after the fact. They’re hired for a reason, and their decisions often involve details we might not see from the stands. After all, there's a reason why they're being paid to do the job while we're paying to watch them.
You mentioned our recent games against Rangers. Though it was the same opponent, both matches played out differently potentially because of changes in the lineups and formation. Rangers made seven changes, and we made four. Naturally, this influenced how both teams approached the game.
Managers make tactical decisions based on a mix of factors such as the team’s strengths, the opposition’s setup, and the specific demands of the match all based on who's available and fit. They balance risks, adjust to changing situations, and try to account for things like pitch conditions, player fatigue, and even weather.
Football is unpredictable at the best of times, and no amount of preparation can remove the element of chaos. If even Pep can go through a spell where he looks like a dumpling, it can happen to anyone.
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1 hour ago, Big Stall said:
And how about when we appear to make no effort to actually try and win the game?
I've talked about this subject before, where it "appears" as though we're happy to sit back and so forth, when in reality, I believe that much of that is to do with the opponent pushing forward.
I don't believe for a second that outwith the games against the Old Firm, we go into any match actively not trying to win.
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1 hour ago, joewarkfanclub said:
For balance you should add that if we lose a really turgid game 1-0 I will be even less happy! Other permutations are also available. 😉
I feel the same way if we lose a turgid game 1-0 or if we lose an exciting and entertaining game 4-3.
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34 minutes ago, MFCL84 said:
Can I ask why you go to the games and what you get from them if survival is the main thing. Don't you go to the games to be entertained?
Personally, I go to games to see us hopefully win. That's the be-all & end-all for me. If we win a boring game 1-0 I'll be happy. If we lose an exciting game 4-3 I won't be happy.
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Let's cut back on the back and forth niggling, please. Want to discuss and be critical of the manager? Fine. But this stupid tit-for-tat isn't happening.
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18 hours ago, grizzlyg said:
Hearts on honking run of form and desperate for 3 pts so what better opposition to face as we are always charitable to teams that need a win
I always laugh when I see anyone saying that, as it's something that fans of about 90% of football clubs in existence say 😂
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2 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said:
For me, any assessment on whether we keep a player or move them on should be based on whether there is a better player available.
There will always be better players out there than the ones we’ve got, but the real question is whether we can afford them and if they’re actually interested in joining us or have other options.
It also comes down to whether the manager and coaching staff believe there’s potential to improve and address the issues a player might have. Let’s be honest—finding a player who makes virtually no mistakes is extremely rare. If someone was consistently performing at that level, they’d probably be well beyond what we can afford.
In the case of someone like Casey, we need to ask ourselves whether he’s consistently making errors and misjudging situations, or if he’s doing what’s expected and delivering at a level suitable for a club like ours. Can the mistakes he’s making be addressed through coaching? Is there room for him to grow and improve?
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18 minutes ago, wellfan said:
But it's possible to highlight the unfair treatment and stand up for what's right without behaving like a hormonal teenager on the touchline, is it not?
He clearly lost his temper on the touchline at the weekend and paid the price for it. He’s not the first manager to do so, and he certainly won’t be the last.
Personally, I’d rather have a manager who occasionally lets his passion get the better of him than someone who comes across as overly passive.
You also raise a valid point about his inexperience. At 40, and with last season being his first full campaign as the sole manager of a professional club, it’s fair to say he’s still learning the ropes.
That said, chasing a top-six finish and leading us to a cup semi-final in only his second full season? Not bad going for someone who’s still relatively new to the job.
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2 hours ago, cambo97 said:
While I don't disagree with what you're saying, Gannon got crucified in the media and on here for pointing out far more obvious wrongs, including when we won the game.
Not by me he didn't.
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12 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:
A fair bit of merit in what you say. However Sevco and Celtic are big enough and powerful enough to intimidate the SFA/SPFL, their officials and the media. Referees cannot stand up to them and consciously or otherwise tend to favour them, maybe for understandable reasons. The media is scared stiff that if they upset them they will be denied access to them for reporting and that in turn will affect their sales. Its a different story, in varying degrees, however for the other clubs. In terms of VAR and refereeing you'd hope that any complaints would be met with indifference but more likely than not they're met with covert hostility.
It might look good to the fans if SK sounds off aggressively and might make him feel better, but its only going to elicit a stubborn reaction from many officials. That said he's only human and I'd probably do the same in his situation. The problem is that its our players and we fans who'll suffer when referees and VAR officials kickback. Again being human, its a very detached emotionless individual who can go out of their way to be fair to someone who's made a very public complaint againt them.
I completely understand your perspective, but I’d much prefer having a manager like Kettlewell who refuses to doff his cap and simply accept the status quo. In my view, the more he calls out the shambles that is officiating in action, the better.
It’s worth noting that his approach could easily boost morale and foster an "us vs the world" mentality in the dressing room, which is no bad thing.
I’m not referring to you here, but the reality is that Kettlewell can’t seem to win in the eyes of some fans. If he manages with passion, wears his heart on his sleeve, and kicks every ball like we do in the stands, he’s labelled a "twat." Yet, if he kept quiet about the poor decisions, avoided making waves, and let it all slide, he’d likely be called a "twat" for that as well.
What I hope is that fans recognise a manager and team who are clearly on the same page, putting in the effort and having a decent season. We should be backing them, supporting the manager and club when they call out dodgy decisions, not tearing them down for it.
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8 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:
Just hope we don't enrage the officials in the next few days before the game.
Yup, the sooner Kettlewell learns that it's only the "big teams" who get to question match officials and learns his place, the better, eh?
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The changes Rangers made at half time and in the second half made the difference. As is usually the case with the Old Firm, they can call upon the quality needed when our players are tiring, and the quality we have on the bench simply isn't of an equal level.
Losing Stama and Miller also hurt us.
St Johnstone V Motherwell 18/01/2025: Scottish Cup
in Club Chat
Posted
That’s why I specifically mentioned forums “like this one” and not just this one in isolation. I genuinely believe that the opinions expressed across both platforms give us a fairly accurate reflection of what our wider fanbase is thinking—particularly now that some of the more obvious trolls have been put on moderation.
Of course, we can’t be entirely certain, as there’s no definitive way to prove it. It’s simply my perspective.