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Scottish Premiership Game 29 : Aberdeen (H) 03/04/18 19:45

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See how the majority of folk said they would be happy with avoiding the playoff's this season? Were they all expecting some sort of weird anomaly of a season where you finish 10th AND win loads of games? :huh:

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9 minutes ago, postiejim said:

Very successful, just painful tae watch.

See, not for me. I agree that the football is often very short on quality, but the character and commitment on show from the team more than makes up for it for me. 

We replaced something like 17 players this season (someone can no doubt provide the exact figure), and given the lack of foresight from his predecessor, Robinson’s first full season was always going to be one of transition, and building a core from which to build a team. He’s done incredibly well to lower the average age of the squad, secure key players on longer term deals, and add some quality. 

Next season we need to see forward progress, no doubt. But to make lasting progress there needs to be a solid base. If a transitional season brings us narrowly missing out on top six, a cup final, and chance at another, I’m really looking forward to seeing what the next season brings, when the manager has more of a chance to build on his foundations.

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That was just rank rotten all over. We completely played into their hands with our ‘style’ of football. Changing the shape to a 4-4-2 just did not work as we lost the midfield battle. 

Aberdeen were dross also. However Wullie Miller said they where slick and dominant for the 90mins. He was really impressed by them seemingly....

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2 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Poor game tonight but hopefully get revenge in the semi.  Frear poor again but I did feel sorry for Hendrie. Every mistake got slaughtered especially from the 2 ,guys at back of east stand. Bigi looked bright and should start on Saturday. For semi Keep ball away from big McKenna. Won everything tonight

 

Think he might be talking about you and me, Fraz?  Hendrie was poor tonight but he wasn't alone. Difference for most fans is that we've seen enough from the other players in other games to suggest that they can offer better. Haven't seen anything from Hendrie yet..

Tonight was dreadful to watch and we offered very little but other than December, that's been rare this season. If you're looking for a football team that isn't going to have the occasional game like that, Fir Park probably isn't for you..

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A few different strands to points made thus far post-match.

Criticism of the display tonight is most certainly warranted.  Very very poor stuff.  Ironically just when we seemed to have weathered the storm,  spent a few minutes at the end of the first half in and around their box and actually looked reasonably lively in the second half - we concede.  But no arguments about the result. Fair reflection over the piece.

No real surprise to see who and some of what has been posted immediately after full-time. If you don't particularly like or rate Robinson, have any faith in his signings or like the style of play - which several posters quite clearly don't then a night like tonight is very much an open goal for you. So not a surprise to see who's been lining up  for the tap in.

For me taking a broader perspective the big question is at what point are we at in our evolution under Robinson?  

If this is as a good as it gets under him then it wouldn't seem unreasonable to question is the style of play going to be effective over a longer term? Is the the form worthy of greater scrutiny and should we be concerned at the way the points appear to have been harvested at the beginning of the season?

However to me there is nothing that suggests to me that this is the end of the cycle just yet.  Priority one from last season to avoid the drop - acheived.  Squad gutted - achieved. Better league position this season - achieved. Cup runs - achieved.  We have not as has been suggested been mostly awful and it is ludicrous to suggest we should be considering the manager's position. 

That's not to say that Robinson doesn't have a big summer ahead of him.  I think there is an expectation that the squad should improve in quality and that having found a generally effective and pragmatic style of play that has got us so far that it should evolve further in a style easier on the eye, perhaps in tandem with a nudging up in quality of the squad.  There will also be an expectation level that reaching the latter stages of cup competitions and getting back into the six will be a greater priority,

I was intrigued and impressed at how he dealt with the caretaker role. I was intrigued and have been impressed at how he handled the rebuild and how for the most part his first season in charge has gone successfully. I remain intrigued to see how he handles the progression of the squad to the next level.

 

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13 minutes ago, siebsbarmyarmy said:

That was just rank rotten all over. We completely played into their hands with our ‘style’ of football. Changing the shape to a 4-4-2 just did not work as we lost the midfield battle. 

Aberdeen were dross also. However Wullie Miller said they where slick and dominant for the 90mins. He was really impressed by them seemingly....

Willie Miller had that typed up and ready to read out before the game kicked-off.  

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11 minutes ago, siebsbarmyarmy said:

That was just rank rotten all over. We completely played into their hands with our ‘style’ of football. Changing the shape to a 4-4-2 just did not work as we lost the midfield battle. 

Aberdeen were dross also. However Wullie Miller said they where slick and dominant for the 90mins. He was really impressed by them seemingly....

Aye, that was really strange, I thought they were mince as well. 

 

Let’s be honest, nobody really gave a shit about the game tonight. I was there and I didn’t give a shit. 

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27 minutes ago, Andy_P said:

A few different strands to points made thus far post-match.

Criticism of the display tonight is most certainly warranted.  Very very poor stuff.  Ironically just when we seemed to have weathered the storm,  spent a few minutes at the end of the first half in and around their box and actually looked reasonably lively in the second half - we concede.  But no arguments about the result. Fair reflection over the piece.

No real surprise to see who and some of what has been posted immediately after full-time. If you don't particularly like or rate Robinson, have any faith in his signings or like the style of play - which several posters quite clearly don't then a night like tonight is very much an open goal for you. So not a surprise to see who's been lining up  for the tap in.

For me taking a broader perspective the big question is at what point are we at in our evolution under Robinson?  

If this is as a good as it gets under him then it wouldn't seem unreasonable to question is the style of play going to be effective over a longer term? Is the the form worthy of greater scrutiny and should we be concerned at the way the points appear to have been harvested at the beginning of the season?

However to me there is nothing that suggests to me that this is the end of the cycle just yet.  Priority one from last season to avoid the drop - acheived.  Squad gutted - achieved. Better league position this season - achieved. Cup runs - achieved.  We have not as has been suggested been mostly awful and it is ludicrous to suggest we should be considering the manager's position. 

That's not to say that Robinson doesn't have a big summer ahead of him.  I think there is an expectation that the squad should improve in quality and that having found a generally effective and pragmatic style of play that has got us so far that it should evolve further in a style easier on the eye, perhaps in tandem with a nudging up in quality of the squad.  There will also be an expectation level that reaching the latter stages of cup competitions and getting back into the six will be a greater priority,

I was intrigued and impressed at how he dealt with the caretaker role. I was intrigued and have been impressed at how he handled the rebuild and how for the most part his first season in charge has gone successfully. I remain intrigued to see how he handles the progression of the squad to the next level.

 

Far too sensible a post for on here to which I whole heartedly agree 

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21 minutes ago, swami said:

Aye, that was really strange, I thought they were mince as well. 

 

Let’s be honest, nobody really gave a shit about the game tonight. I was there and I didn’t give a shit. 

Very much this. I went tonight and of course did not want to see us lose. But face facts which are Aberdeen quest to finish 2nd is much more of an incentive than us finishing 7th. By the way I hope they achieve 2nd over the h**s. 

We were poor but we will be better and it acts as a reminder we need to physically match Aberdeen for effort as well if we want to win the semi final. 

 

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1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:

Another post of ratios, percentages and general meaningless drivel, my favourite was your explanation that 22 games was 2 x 11, those spreadsheets must help you a lot.

Here are a few stats for you, no danger of relegation this season, 1 major cup final already with the chance of another, over £1.5 million generated in transfer fees, fan ownership finally implemented, so in my opinion a successful season. 

 

 

We've been in relegation form for two thirds of the season and Louis Moult isn't coming back. 

I'm a regular attender of matches, tonight was my 29th match of the season, and I've not seen us win a league match since October.

If you want to talk about non football matters like club income and fan ownership,  fine, I'd agree with you on those topics,  but it has nothing to do with our abysmal league form.

You think it's 'meaningless' that we've won 4 out of 22 matches?      Headers won in midfield is a meaningless stat, games won isn't.  It's the single most important determining fact on how players and managers are assessed and how seasons are evaluated.   

The poor form is not a blip in the season.  It's most of the season.  The problem with a lot of people on this message board is they would rather create ideological enemies than acknowledge simple facts - facts like our league form isn't good enough. 

As I said in the original post - big improvements are required.

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

We've been in relegation form for two thirds of the season and Louis Moult isn't coming back. 

I'm a regular attender of matches, tonight was my 29th match of the season, and I've not seen us win a league match since October.

If you want to talk about non football matters like club income and fan ownership,  fine, I'd agree with you on those topics,  but it has nothing to do with our abysmal league form.

You think it's 'meaningless' that we've won 4 out of 22 matches?      Headers won in midfield is a meaningless stat, games won isn't.  It's the single most important determining fact on how players and managers are assessed and how seasons are evaluated.   

The poor form is not a blip in the season.  It's most of the season.  The problem with a lot of people on this message board is they would rather create ideological enemies than acknowledge simple facts - facts like our league form isn't good enough. 

As I said in the original post - big improvements are required.

 

 

 

 

 

Club income has nothing’s nothing to do with league form ? I would say it’s pretty much everything. There is a reason the clubs with the highest income are just about always the ones sitting in the top six. 3000 home fans against 10,000/50,000.

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6 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

We've been in relegation form for two thirds of the season and Louis Moult isn't coming back. 

I'm a regular attender of matches, tonight was my 29th match of the season, and I've not seen us win a league match since October.

If you want to talk about non football matters like club income and fan ownership,  fine, I'd agree with you on those topics,  but it has nothing to do with our abysmal league form.

You think it's 'meaningless' that we've won 4 out of 22 matches?      Headers won in midfield is a meaningless stat, games won isn't.  It's the single most important determining fact on how players and managers are assessed and how seasons are evaluated.   

The poor form is not a blip in the season.  It's most of the season.  The problem with a lot of people on this message board is they would rather create ideological enemies than acknowledge simple facts - facts like our league form isn't good enough. 

As I said in the original post - big improvements are required.

 

 

 

 

 

We defeated St Johnstone a few weeks back in the league and at home.  A few weeks before that we defeated Ross County in the league and at home. 

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7 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

We've been in relegation form for two thirds of the season and Louis Moult isn't coming back. 

I'm a regular attender of matches, tonight was my 29th match of the season, and I've not seen us win a league match since October.

If you want to talk about non football matters like club income and fan ownership,  fine, I'd agree with you on those topics,  but it has nothing to do with our abysmal league form.

You think it's 'meaningless' that we've won 4 out of 22 matches?      Headers won in midfield is a meaningless stat, games won isn't.  It's the single most important determining fact on how players and managers are assessed and how seasons are evaluated.   

The poor form is not a blip in the season.  It's most of the season.  The problem with a lot of people on this message board is they would rather create ideological enemies than acknowledge simple facts - facts like our league form isn't good enough. 

As I said in the original post - big improvements are required.

 

 

 

 

 

I dare say that the Manager and those in charge of the Club know that there are big improvements required, both in terms of how we play and in our overall league form.

However, when you look at it completely rationally, and without the use of statistics (because statistics can be manipulated for whatever argument you want to impose on others), this season can only be described as being a successful one, both on and off the park.

The manager has completely overhauled our playing squad, he has brought in a lot of players, not all will be a success when you're bringing so many new bodies in, but we now have a squad that has some very sellable assets. From the disaster that he took over, to where we are just now, I don't know how anyone can say that he hasn't done a good job, and if he continues the improvement into next season then, next season will be a cracker.

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Just seen the goals on SSN - Trevor didn't exactly cover himself in glory at the second - now there's a sentence I didn't think I would type this season!!!!!!!

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38 minutes ago, ONeils4oyarder said:

I dare say that the Manager and those in charge of the Club know that there are big improvements required, both in terms of how we play and in our overall league form.

However, when you look at it completely rationally, and without the use of statistics (because statistics can be manipulated for whatever argument you want to impose on others), this season can only be described as being a successful one, both on and off the park.

The manager has completely overhauled our playing squad, he has brought in a lot of players, not all will be a success when you're bringing so many new bodies in, but we now have a squad that has some very sellable assets. From the disaster that he took over, to where we are just now, I don't know how anyone can say that he hasn't done a good job, and if he continues the improvement into next season then, next season will be a cracker.

Assuming we get 2 more points this season we will have 'improved' on last season but anything deeper than surface level analysis shows that post Moult our form has gone completely down the toilet.  So what happens when we play a full season without him?  Will it be Ross County without Boyce?

There are too many people around here engaged in experiments in relativism, embracing poor standards and then claiming exaggerated success against a very low bar.  The truth is we are in long term rut going back beyond the current manager and at least a couple of antecedents.  With 2 wins in our last 8 against the dregs of the league - Ross County, Partick, Hamilton, Dundee, I think you are straining to see anything different in the future.

I wouldn't mind so much if people were honest and extolled that view that we have a low budget and can't expect to be anything other than mediocre but some of the fawning encomiums about 'a club transformed' show a perception of our season that has no basis in reality....and when reality is ignored it tends to come back and bite you.

It's disappointing to lose matches but I'm a Motherwell supporter and have been for a long time.  What really bothers me is the perception of the season as seen through these boards.  It's fantasy.

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I think we all get that December was a disaster. Not much we can do about that now except hope that the team and management have learnt from it and would be better placed to stop such a rot again. 

Ya Bezzer I bet 11 league games ago your form table wasn't 22 league games long and just long enough to include when the horrendous run started. Greatful for the stats nonetheless mate. 

Curiously if you take the form for the last 11 games and do that for a season it would put us on 39 points at the split which has been good enough for 7th most seasons after 33 games.  Which guess what is pretty close to what we'll end up for our points total. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Assuming we get 2 more points this season we will have 'improved' on last season but anything deeper than surface level analysis shows that post Moult our form has gone completely down the toilet.  So what happens when we play a full season without him?  Will it be Ross County without Boyce?

There are too many people around here engaged in experiments in relativism, embracing poor standards and then claiming exaggerated success against a very low bar.  The truth is we are in long term rut going back beyond the current manager and at least a couple of antecedents.  With 2 wins in our last 8 against the dregs of the league - Ross County, Partick, Hamilton, Dundee, I think you are straining to see anything different in the future.

I wouldn't mind so much if people were honest and extolled that view that we have a low budget and can't expect to be anything other than mediocre but some of the fawning encomiums about 'a club transformed' show a perception of our season that has no basis in reality....and when reality is ignored it tends to come back and bite you.

It's disappointing to lose matches but I'm a Motherwell supporter and have been for a long time.  What really bothers me is the perception of the season as seen through these boards.  It's fantasy.

I'm not quite sure why you are still harping on about Louis Moult...we lost him in the transfer window, because that made complete business sense to do so, however replacing him at that point was always going to be a hugely difficult task as the January window is a chronically bad time to be replacing your best player. Curtis Main has come in and done a decent job, hes an upgrade on Bowman but doesnt look like he'll be that talismanic goalscorer that Moult was. I'd bet my last quid, that Robinson, Lasley, Burrows and our scouting team are fully aware of the importance of upgrading our current forwards in the Summer transfer window.

 

I'm not really interested in what happened prior to Robinson being here (antecedents is a belter of a word though), I'm interested in where we are going now, and in the 12months or so that the current manager has been in charge we have improved as a club, on the field (you should fire up the stats for all competitions and not just the league, if you want to be fair to the manager, but I know you wont do that) and off the field. Thats not fantasy, its self-evident. 

 

I've been a supporter of the Club for quite a few years as well, and I'm looking forward to further improvements (and there needs to be further improvements) in season 2018/19, rather than worrying about whats gone and in the past.

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19 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Assuming we get 2 more points this season we will have 'improved' on last season but anything deeper than surface level analysis shows that post Moult our form has gone completely down the toilet.  So what happens when we play a full season without him?  Will it be Ross County without Boyce?

There are too many people around here engaged in experiments in relativism, embracing poor standards and then claiming exaggerated success against a very low bar.  The truth is we are in long term rut going back beyond the current manager and at least a couple of antecedents.  With 2 wins in our last 8 against the dregs of the league - Ross County, Partick, Hamilton, Dundee, I think you are straining to see anything different in the future.

I wouldn't mind so much if people were honest and extolled that view that we have a low budget and can't expect to be anything other than mediocre but some of the fawning encomiums about 'a club transformed' show a perception of our season that has no basis in reality....and when reality is ignored it tends to come back and bite you.

It's disappointing to lose matches but I'm a Motherwell supporter and have been for a long time.  What really bothers me is the perception of the season as seen through these boards.  It's fantasy.

Cup runs have been non existent in previous season so if we were to swap this seasons cup wins for league wins we would be a further 18 points up the table (6 wins against Premier league opposition). That would take us onto 52 points and 4th place above Kilmarnock. By anybodies standards Kilmarnock have had a great season.

You cannot discount 6 competitive matches against Premier league opposition when looking at the season as a whole.  Progression has been made. That is a fact, not fantasy.

 

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Wonder who the ref will be for semi final seeing that Shinnie is suspended!!   He is total pain in the ass!!   He must have been popular at school as he grassed up his classmates at any opportunity.    Also special mention to my cousin who couldn't work out why me and my pals were coming up with snooker phrases throughout the first half...."ehhhhhh cos the left back is Stephen Hendrie".    Mind you after last nights performance there is no chance of us giving the loan deal an extension!!!!   Ba boom

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30 minutes ago, grizzlyg said:

Wonder who the ref will be for semi final seeing that Shinnie is suspended!!   He is total pain in the ass!!   He must have been popular at school as he grassed up his classmates at any opportunity.    Also special mention to my cousin who couldn't work out why me and my pals were coming up with snooker phrases throughout the first half...."ehhhhhh cos the left back is Stephen Hendrie".    Mind you after last nights performance there is no chance of us giving the loan deal an extension!!!!   Ba boom

Give it a rest... :P

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Im a big fan of Curtis Main, he’s really coming into a game and I think he could go on to do equally as well as Moult did with us? His touch and lob that went just over on Saturday v Rangers after his work for Campbell’s goal had me asking, Louis who?

Given the rebuilding job we did pre-season and bearing in mind we started the season with McManus as our only proven Centre half, 7th place, all but safe from the play off (we might be mathematically safe, as for Ross county and Thistle to catch us they’d both need to beat Dundee and Hamilton, so they’d not be able to catch us...) a cup final and a very good shot at another is not a bad season at all.

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1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Assuming we get 2 more points this season we will have 'improved' on last season but anything deeper than surface level analysis shows that post Moult our form has gone completely down the toilet.  So what happens when we play a full season without him?  Will it be Ross County without Boyce?

There are too many people around here engaged in experiments in relativism, embracing poor standards and then claiming exaggerated success against a very low bar.  The truth is we are in long term rut going back beyond the current manager and at least a couple of antecedents.  With 2 wins in our last 8 against the dregs of the league - Ross County, Partick, Hamilton, Dundee, I think you are straining to see anything different in the future.

I wouldn't mind so much if people were honest and extolled that view that we have a low budget and can't expect to be anything other than mediocre but some of the fawning encomiums about 'a club transformed' show a perception of our season that has no basis in reality....and when reality is ignored it tends to come back and bite you.

It's disappointing to lose matches but I'm a Motherwell supporter and have been for a long time.  What really bothers me is the perception of the season as seen through these boards.  It's fantasy.

Encomiums- good word. Shame you’re right miserable.

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1 hour ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Assuming we get 2 more points this season we will have 'improved' on last season but anything deeper than surface level analysis shows that post Moult our form has gone completely down the toilet.  So what happens when we play a full season without him?  Will it be Ross County without Boyce?

There are too many people around here engaged in experiments in relativism, embracing poor standards and then claiming exaggerated success against a very low bar.  The truth is we are in long term rut going back beyond the current manager and at least a couple of antecedents.  With 2 wins in our last 8 against the dregs of the league - Ross County, Partick, Hamilton, Dundee, I think you are straining to see anything different in the future.

I wouldn't mind so much if people were honest and extolled that view that we have a low budget and can't expect to be anything other than mediocre but some of the fawning encomiums about 'a club transformed' show a perception of our season that has no basis in reality....and when reality is ignored it tends to come back and bite you.

It's disappointing to lose matches but I'm a Motherwell supporter and have been for a long time.  What really bothers me is the perception of the season as seen through these boards.  It's fantasy.

Alan Burrows tweet this morning suggests him and the board are very pleased with the job Robinson has done and the way the season has gone,  we will have poor games more often than not but face it we are a small town bottom 6 side with the resources we operate on, need to learn to accept it,   There has been a big improvement on the McGhee mess from last season however there's also things that quite rightly we can also still improve on going forward and I believe we will for next season.   

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Schoolboy stuff that 'punting ' the ball to nowhere for most of the match along with what looked like an 'empty ' middle of the park for us did us over. Never looked like scoring in a month of sundays. We will be back and i'm not disheartened. Experience as a 'Well ' fan tells me that. COYW.

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The weather would have played a part in how much of a shite fest last night was. Certainly made my mind up to leave about 70mins or so.

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