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Scottish Premiership Game 36:St Johnstone (H) 05/05/18 15:00

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Ciftci started fairly brightly but that second half performance from him was diabolical. 

Part of our problem is so many of our players are guaranteed a start no matter how badly they are playing. Mchugh and cadden are woefully out of form bordering on hopeless but continue to start games

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Today was a bad result with poor team and individual performances but the comments by some on this forum leave me shaking my head. I'm not a 'happy clapper' and can be critical of lack of effort but any player can have an off-day.  I'm a fan for over 50 years who can put into perspective our wins and defeats, particularly this season with the rebuilt squad. We have reached 2 cup finals and going to finish 7th/8th. Yes a 5-1 home defeat hurts but some of my fellow 'Well fans need to relax and enjoy the claret and amber rollercoaster ride. We could be fighting relegation but have the 19th May to look forward to, with or without a few dozen folk who are undecided whether to buy a ticket or not. I find it hard to believe that today's defeat would lose us hundreds of cup ticket sales, I don't know of anyone who has suggested that their decision to go to Hampden or not will be dependent on the last few league results. Just remember the effort, desire and heart that this completely new squad have shown in the cup games this season and give them our 100% backing. Stephen Robinson has been in charge for 12 cup games with only 1 defeat. COYW.

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Great post

Today was a bad result with poor team and individual performances but the comments by some on this forum leave me shaking my head. I'm not a 'happy clapper' and can be critical of lack of effort but any player can have an off-day.  I'm a fan for over 50 years who can put into perspective our wins and defeats, particularly this season with the rebuilt squad. We have reached 2 cup finals and going to finish 7th/8th. Yes a 5-1 home defeat hurts but some of my fellow 'Well fans need to relax and enjoy the claret and amber rollercoaster ride. We could be fighting relegation but have the 19th May to look forward to, with or without a few dozen folk who are undecided whether to buy a ticket or not. I find it hard to believe that today's defeat would lose us hundreds of cup ticket sales, I don't know of anyone who has suggested that their decision to go to Hampden or not will be dependent on the last few league results. Just remember the effort, desire and heart that this completely new squad have shown in the cup games this season and give them our 100% backing. Stephen Robinson has been in charge for 12 cup games with only 1 defeat. COYW.


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39 minutes ago, ECOSSE1991 said:

Today was a bad result with poor team and individual performances but the comments by some on this forum leave me shaking my head. I'm not a 'happy clapper' and can be critical of lack of effort but any player can have an off-day.  

If you are a regular on this forum then I am surprised you are surprised by some of the comments. It is a regular feature for some posters. We could win 30 games in a row and lose game 31 and it would be the end of the world and Robinson must go. Just the way it works. There is very little perspective imho when it comes to some defeats. 

That said not just one player had an off day today. Virtually the whole team did. Dunne has improved no end as the season progressed but today was as bad as he has been this season. Same applies to McHugh. Even Main and Carson were not really at it today. It was just a strange game. We defended as badly as we could have. 

Let us hope we can restore some pride come Tuesday evening especially as I will head along.  All that said part of me wants Hamilton to come to Fir Park at the weekend with something at stake for them and for that to happen Thistle probably need to win. Another part of me wants Hamilton safe come the weekend so they don’t injure any of our players in a all out battle. 

Hopefully today serves as a wake up call ahead of the final 2 league games. 

 

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Anyone who thinks us losing to St Johnstone today will affect whether or not people go to the cup final is off their head.

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Today was a bad result with poor team and individual performances but the comments by some on this forum leave me shaking my head. I'm not a 'happy clapper' and can be critical of lack of effort but any player can have an off-day.  I'm a fan for over 50 years who can put into perspective our wins and defeats, particularly this season with the rebuilt squad. We have reached 2 cup finals and going to finish 7th/8th. Yes a 5-1 home defeat hurts but some of my fellow 'Well fans need to relax and enjoy the claret and amber rollercoaster ride. We could be fighting relegation but have the 19th May to look forward to, with or without a few dozen folk who are undecided whether to buy a ticket or not. I find it hard to believe that today's defeat would lose us hundreds of cup ticket sales, I don't know of anyone who has suggested that their decision to go to Hampden or not will be dependent on the last few league results. Just remember the effort, desire and heart that this completely new squad have shown in the cup games this season and give them our 100% backing. Stephen Robinson has been in charge for 12 cup games with only 1 defeat. COYW.
Fuck enjoying a 5-1 home defeat to as poor a St Johnstone side as we've seen in a few years, especially 2 weeks before a (still rare) cup final appearance

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Stephen Robinson doesn't sound too concerned about things so i'm not either.

Thanfully we go again Tuesday.

On a side note I was speaking to a saints fan on the way back to the car after the game yesterday.

He couldn't be certain but he seemed to recall st Johnston's form after the split before their Scottish cup success wasnt great.

A few draws and a couple of defeats including a humping at Inverness on the last day it would appear.

Results in the league will mean fuck all come the 19th.

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A complete guess  but maybe the reason for almost every single player being off the pace today is due to training being focused specifically on the cup final. If they are doing hard/ heavy sessions leading into games without the recovery time given to normal competitive games they could be feeling a bit jaded.

I know nothing about these things but if there is an opportunity to optimise fitness  for one specific game at the the expense of competitiveness in the games beforehand I would take a few leggy performances before the final.

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8 minutes ago, star sail said:

A complete guess  but maybe the reason for almost every single player being off the pace today is due to training being focused specifically on the cup final. If they are doing hard/ heavy sessions leading into games without the recovery time given to normal competitive games they could be feeling a bit jaded.

I know nothing about these things but if there is an opportunity to optimise fitness  for one specific game at the the expense of competitiveness in the games beforehand I would take a few leggy performances before the final.

Yesterday was a strange one and I still put it down in part to Kipre and Tait been rested. You would think Carson, Aldred, and Dunn had never played together and Carson was just not communicating  with his defence the same way he normally does. Words were said between him and Aldred a couple of times  in the first half and the space and time the St Johnstone player had for the cross for the first goal was crazy. It’s very true that we have a strong 11, we struggle when we have injuries or want to rest players but given our resources that’s understandable. We are never going to have 20 players that can all step up to the mark and it’s a tough ask for a younger player coming in replacing Kipre.

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16 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

I'd agree that there wasn't much in it until they scored but I'd make two points. 

2)  The game in the early stages was played as if it was a pre season friendly match.  We had a couple of good moves and touches but there was just no intensity there at all.  That for me was really the disappointing thing.  You'd have thought the summer holidays were coming early instead of us having an extra, and massively important, game.

Absolutely.  I thought beforehand that Saints would beat us but certainly not by 5-1.  The game was a total mismatch in that Saints were desperate for the points whereas we really just wanted to fulfil the fixture, rest a couple of players and give them some exercise and most importantly avoid injuries.  I understand the manager's team selection up to a point and the player's lack of effort but it doesn't make for good spectating.  A word of warning for anyone thinking of going to Firhill this week expect more of the same and that advice possibly extends to next Saturday too. 

I understand Robbo resting 2 defenders but thats not a situation into which you throw a rookie central defender.  Barry Maguire didn't play at all well but he was hung out to dry.  He was given no support or protection by the more experienced pros either side of him and certainly not by those in front of him.   Still the reason for our heavy defeat was in no way down to individual players; the whole team played poorly.   I thought Ciftci was a big let down.  Yes he has delicate touches but was very immobile and doesn't fit into our style of play.  Even lads like Campbell & Grimshaw who are usually real battlers, were pulling out of challenges.   The strikers can feel a bit hard done I suppose due to the lack of decent service.  The midfield was awful and that was the root of our problems, not helped by a shaky and chaotic defence.

Our normal game is based on a high work rate and effort and we fell well short of that yesterday.  The cup final team almost picks itself and everyone, including Brendan Rodgers knows that.   Most of the fringe players we've brought in, like Bigi,  haven't been up to it.  

In short yesterday's debacle was a combination of 2 top players being rested and the others not wanting to over exert themselves.   

We'll be a different proposition in the final but I think we can write off 7th spot, the coming Partick game and maybe the Accies game.   In the great scheme of things I don't think the management and players see our next 2 games, and certainly yesterday's game as being important. 

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Positives-

a wee wake up call, when we’re not 100% up for it, the consequences are clear.

Big Ced and Tait are crucial to our game plan, their absence was instrumental.

we retain the ball better with creativity in the middle of the park. Bigi showed that.

negatives-

im not going there at all, it was what it was

 

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, grizzlyg said:

Bad day at office but can't be any worse. Ciftci can't play in cup final so every cloud..........let's all keep the faith

 

and mc hugh is worse than a man short captain or not he wouldn't be in my final team if rose is fit, he was in front of us in the stand yesterday and didn't show any signs of a shouder injury 

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9 minutes ago, smiddy said:

and mc hugh is worse than a man short captain or not he wouldn't be in my final team if rose is fit, he was in front of us in the stand yesterday and didn't show any signs of a shouder injury 

He doesn't have a shoulder injury - he has a cracked collar bone. It's touch and go if that heals in time.

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34 minutes ago, smiddy said:

and mc hugh is worse than a man short captain or not he wouldn't be in my final team if rose is fit, he was in front of us in the stand yesterday and didn't show any signs of a shouder injury 

McHugh is a really strange one this season - The game yesterday was particularly poor from him and I'd  say he was at fault for the opening 3 goals.

He was clearly brought in my McGhee as the guy to build a team around. His absence after that horrible head injury then the difference he made when he returned showed us all the quality he has. 

This season he's looked like a shadow of the player he was yet he's picked week in, week out. There's also been plenty of games where Robinson has praised him yet the consensus among the fans is that he'd been poor. 

I don't know what to make of it all to be honest. 

 

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It's more interesting to listen to the players than the fans. When Hartley, for example, is on Mixlr he can't talk highly enough about McHugh and says it's great playing behind him. I know team mates stick together and all that, but there seems to be a feeling from the guys on the park that he brings a lot to the game.

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1 hour ago, weeyin said:

It's more interesting to listen to the players than the fans. When Hartley, for example, is on Mixlr he can't talk highly enough about McHugh and says it's great playing behind him. I know team mates stick together and all that, but there seems to be a feeling from the guys on the park that he brings a lot to the game.

I think he’s often unfairly judged by the supporters, but then I also think that about Rose who also gets stick yet offers a lot when he plays. But yesterday he was rank rotten and I don’t think he’s the right individual to be captain. I would give that to Hartley when fit and back in the team.

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2 hours ago, CoF said:

McHugh is a really strange one this season - The game yesterday was particularly poor from him and I'd  say he was at fault for the opening 3 goals.

He was clearly brought in my McGhee as the guy to build a team around. His absence after that horrible head injury then the difference he made when he returned showed us all the quality he has. 

This season he's looked like a shadow of the player he was yet he's picked week in, week out. There's also been plenty of games where Robinson has praised him yet the consensus among the fans is that he'd been poor. 

I don't know what to make of it all to be honest. 

 

I know what I think,

if he starts the final and gets caught feckin about with the ball in the middle of the park, he will loose it, then smellic will break away and score ,,, fact !!!!!!

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7 hours ago, smiddy said:

I know what I think,

if he starts the final and gets caught feckin about with the ball in the middle of the park, he will loose it, then smellic will break away and score ,,, fact !!!!!!

You will never get this quality of tactical analysis from steven thompson on a sunday night 

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1 hour ago, beastfromtheeast(stand) said:

You will never get this quality of tactical analysis from steven thompson on a sunday night 

Agreed, it's the sort of shite that is making this website unreadable ,,,,, fact !!!!!!

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McHugh is clearly one which divides opinion. 

He had a stinker on Saturday, no doubt about it, which he has done a few times this season. I also think he's had several games where he has done his job very effectively, only to come on here and read contrasting opinions.

I think it may still be the case that he is a better player in defence (he did play all but one season there before coming to us) and that his technical abilities in the middle of the park are very limited. He is not particularly a great passer of the ball and not very good at carrying the ball in possession, but in terms of winning headers, tackles and moving the ball on simply,  he's our best player at doing so whilst on song. 

Last season, we saw a small glimpse of him in midfield either side of the head injury, but mainly he was used in defence. I think between the fact he played well in defence and the fact that our midfield was largely rotten during this period of time, people built up an opinion in their heads that he was more of a complete central midfielder than he is, with little evidence.

I don't think he's a centre mid who oozes class or who will ever make us money in a transfer fee, but I think he is a midfielder who effectively operates at this level, fitting in with our style, most of the time.

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11 hours ago, GazzyB said:

Agreed, it's the sort of shite that is making this website unreadable ,,,,, fact !!!!!!

well don't read it ,, that's my opinion ,,fact !!!!!

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To be honest I think there are some valid points about McHugh here. Regardless of what side of the debate you are I think the majority of us can agree that he has a couple of things that he needs to improve upon

- stop taking so much time on the ball and getting caught in possession

- increase the quality of his distribution

Everything else he does pretty well IMO and the majority of the games he does the above okay but I think a lot of fans have just seen SO many games where he doesn't do one of the above well hence the criticism. I have noticed that some fans like to go criticise him quicker than others but I suppose fans will always have that sort of approach. One thing I will note is I have seen us on a few occasions appear to miss him holding us together in the middle of the park when he was not present. One exception to that rule ofcourse is the semi-final but I am of the mind that we are a better team with Carl in the side than without him.

Overall with Saturday I don't really buy in to the 'freak result' interview Robbo gave. I understand he doesn't want to go through the team given the circumstances of the upcoming final but I'd rather he just gave fair analysis on the match rather than writing the game off. It's happened a few times this season and its not as if our league form has been dazzling, defending like this isn't a one off.

To be clear, I wasn't overly bothered by Saturday's result I think it's simply an indication that the players have their head in the final and that our strength in depth isn't quite as good as we have made out. Personally though I'd rather the game was just analysed more specifically or a question mark was made of the players focus rather than simply writing the game off entirely.

I'm quite optimistic we will put in a more focused display tonight. You'd like to think the squad is playing for places after all.

 

 

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