Goggles & Flippers

How did you guess ... let me have a go back .... Kevin Bridges?

I appreciate your reticence and there's a host of horror stories of a chairman's ego making a club homeless and a shiny new stadium hosting zero events and quickly turning into the set from the Last of Us (Darlington, Kassam Oxford). I think we are unique in our league that two teams suck up so much support from the glory hunting/perpetuating the religious bullshit among our population. That also takes competitiveness and money from communities around the country which they go on to complain about. To put it as simply as possible, for every 1,000 seats we make available to the OF multiplied how often we play them at home over two seasons being seven (six guaranteed and one normally post split, plus an odd cup tie) and an average ticket price £24 (£30 minus 20% VAT) over a 20 year mortgage is £1.7m before you factor inflation which would take it closer to £2m. Give the OF an extra 5,000 seats to add to the 4,800 they get already we've realised £10m in revenue. Not only that the stadium would benefit from an uplift in home support due to the novelty factor of it being new. McDiarmid Park makes something like £1.2m from non match day hospitality and function hire. It seems every funeral in Perth goes back there for their sausage rolls and cakes. Even if we realise half of that on top of what we currently pull in, that's massive. Matchday hospitality would go up two or threefold with a modern offering. You mention the office space, covid allowed for a lot more home working and while there's still a need for it, it's not as essential as it was before. However, you then have to make the office space you do have and what if offers unique and a reason to seek it out. Having an incubator space where small startups can feed off each other and cross pollinate seems to me to be something that would give you an edge over an empty box at the foot of Airbles Road. You tap into every resource and grant going, local and national and pan UK. You sell the NLC the residents around FP moaning less, you offer a solution to their concert hall conundrum and you offer an anchor project to stimulate the Ravenscraig site. For me to be truly unique you need to push the boat out yet always have doing it cost effectively at the heart of it. I'd have it only the second covered grass football pitch in the UK (Millenium Stadium), I'd have that pitch removable so the space can be used for all sorts of events. I'd specify agricultural/industrial design and materials but do it in a way that's it's celebrated. I'd make the site one large power generator, ground source bored hot water to solar and have it export energy. Of course each one of the makes the price increase due to their perceived complexity but if done right and properly researched it can be done for much less than some think.

Except I outlined how we can. Granted back of a fag pack maths but it points to how it is achievable in theory and we maintain our income and costs similar to what as they are at present. I posted a link to the 42 page presentation I made on P&B earlier. I don't know if you reviewed it then but here it is: Our Future Home Presentation

The issue is we’re in a dense residential area and the residents are already inconvenienced upwards of 23x a season. The NIMBY brigade would be mobilised and in full swing. The delay due to public consultations etc and reworks of the plans would sap money and enthusiasm. Also, with all that in mind the footprint and height of any new building would probably have to conform to that of the existing stand. Hearts main stand almost doubled theirs by coming forward into that pedestrian plaza they created. Theres a very good spot by StAndrew7 over on P&B on costs from a professional point of view. The issue we have is most of our internal spaces within the POD are pretty narrow, think of the 91 suite. Even the Centenary isn’t a big space in hospitality terms. We’ll always be limited at FP but not as limited as St Mirren are limiting their capacity to 8,000, that was madness in our league. I do agree the multiple agencies involved in Ravenscraig would be a nightmare but a lot easier to deal with than a residents association leaning on councillors. The patrons of the Bullfrog got a pretty nice improvement in their two blaise pitches kyboshed. I’d actually halt the proposals for Dalziel Park and look to pump that spend into something at Ravenscraig to make it a campus and share the facilities for training and matchdays. The additional issue with Ravenscraig is that it’s 20 years behind where it should be. A lot of people staked their reputation on it being a success. Maybe back then a stadium would have been seen as a catalyst and anchor to stimulate redevelopment. Today I’d be m sure due to a lot of water passing under the bridge, projected revenues not realised and money leaching out, the required land would come with a price tag that makes it very tricky even with £10m in the bank.

I'm unsure what these reports give you in 2026. Now all anyone needs to do is visit their preferred AI engine, upload a number of background documents that give it context (our past five years of accounts, NLC development strategy, Ravenscraig masterplan, half a dozen news articles, stadium precedent studies, and a plethora of others) and it will spit something decent out, with graphs, projections and looking very professional. What you're paying for with a consultancy is their name and clout added to it. Five years ago perhaps the fee could paid be justified and information contained would be pertinent because it would have needed true analysis and human endeavour. Let's not overlook that in a subjective document that is open to so much interpretation and presumption, that any inference can be made to suit a narrative and most importantly sell a vision to the fanbase. The events of two summers ago shows that a significant part of our fanbase have no interest in getting close to any weeds let alone get in amongst them. I asked a question at the AGM ..... roughly went along the lines of due to the success of the team, we are looking at potentially realising a high seven-figure, possibly eight-figures of transfer revenue this summer. Does that change the thinking and direction of the board as to what we do next? Of course the answer was vague, obtuse and as secretive as we've came to expect of late. On the face of it, staying and redeveloping seems the simplest option, even if it means a season or two of disruption and hit to income. However, due to the transfer receipts we're likely to realise, we're now potentially discussing projects that were previously beyond us. We've effectively gone from talking about financing a new POD to having the sort of deposit that allows you to seriously consider a mortgage on a new stadium. Personally, I'd prefer the latter as Fir Park will always be limiting to any aspirations, for a host of reasons although I suspect the equalisation of season ticket prices across the three home stands points towards the first part of the club ultimately remaining at Fir Park and mitigating moving punters to other stands. However, you may want to look at it as Elijah Just and Lennon Miller effectively paying for two behind the goal stands, with Watt and Ward covering the training complex. That still allows JT's eventual income to go back into the football department. One thing is certain, if we redevelop FP or embark on something new, if we go less than a 13,000 capacity of which 5,000 is accessible to away fans, then we can't maintain our current financial planning and projected incomes. That is, unless our home support grows to a regular 7-7,500. As I outlined in the presentation @Kmcalpin covered way back, if for example we increase our capacity in a new stadium to 16,000 and give up those extra 3,000 to the OF/Hearts, over a 20 year mortgage we'd earn close to £8m just for those extra 3,000 seats from what FP currently holds. 3,000 extra seats allows us to maintain our current business model and pay off another stand. Increase to 19,000 capacity, it's all covered if done modestly, the trade off is hosting the ugly sisters means there is an 11,000 to 7,000 imbalance when we are the home team, but those extra 6,000 with their green and blue pounds buy us a fair bit of a stadium for 'free'. Things get tricky if we are relegated and don't bounce back up, but as we enter our 44th? season in the top flight then. Just trying to simply the above to make the concept sink in. There would be of course groundworks, new 5% plastic pitch, professional fees, contingencies and cost overruns all projects have attached. For me it's simple. Make the space(s) multi-use and able to be used 24-7/365 and monetise it, make it a destination venue in Scottish football, offer something truly unique and lower our current maintenance costs. Good design can enhance atmosphere which is a big reason people are wary of moves along with debt saddled to the club. An innovative approach at conception can address all of these fears.

And that in one statement highlights the glass ceiling (pun not intended) many of our own fans put in place often artificially. The guy is saying weekly he wants the players to be the best they can be, exceed their what they assume is their own personal limitations and we’re seeing that played out. But yeah, with this, the bare minimum will suffice …. All I’ve said since my first post on the subject is it could be so much more with little effort or cost. Just my observation.

Quit being so salty. Having an opinion on something is not reliant on experience or first hand involvement. If you do, it adds a degree of qualification and others can weigh up how much they weight they give your opinion. However, an odd bloody argument on a football forum. By extension, anyone who hasn’t played at least semi-pro level just shut up about Jens, his tactics and our players. The relationship between the spaces and the flow is the issue for me. It seems cramped. It could be so much more with some more thought and rejigging. We are at the public consultation phase after all and this is the time as members of the public to give our two cents. Unsure why it’s triggered you to the degree it has. I and a few others came up with a rough costing for the facility with slightly different methods, but a rule of thumb is £2k per square meter is a workable benchmark. So aye, it’s infinitely better than what we have at present but as it stands, to me, looks like Stalag Fußball.

I’m talking about the space being usable, at present I’m not sure the design offers the best chance of that. But don’t let my observations get in the way of your hyperbole. Build cheap, build twice.

No issue, seems you don’t mind waiting half an hour to wash yer baws.

Expert is very generous, I did study architecture but never worked in practice. I did make a model of the Alfred McAlpine stadium in Huddersfield out of spaghetti (as it was far cheaper than balsa wood) for a second year precedent study, does that qualify me? There’s a couple more informed than me on budgeting and planning, StAndrew7 being one who deals with tenders and bidding in a slightly different field but most is transferable and his observations sound. What illustrates the issues with the design being a bit of a crowbar is little things you notice. Theres no pleasant communal/informal space for the players. There’s two shown which are effectively a glorified corridor between the main changing room and atrium which won’t be used in practice. Other wee things like a referees/management changing room with three showers, a home dressing room with ten and a secondary one with only four ….. I don’t know if anyone has used the gym at Wishaw Sports Centre, it’s an enclosed wee space that feels a bit claustrophobic, there’s a reason commercial gyms are in spaces from 15ft to double height ceilings. A way to combat this is extend the building to join the garage. In that space make the gym double height and have a mezzanine, halving the current gym footprint on the existing plan. Move the lecture theatre upstairs to the carpark side and a player lounge overlooking the pitches. It opens space on the ground floor to make things less pokey. The space vacated by the lecture theatre, the secondary changing room could be moved over to make the west side of the building less congested and a changing room better befitting the u18’s and women. The warm and cold plunge pools is nice but surprised a ten person sauna wasn’t included, you can get one for £7k. In for a penny in for a pound. Come WS, pony up.

The Tommy Gemmell statue in Craigneuk makes a nod to Ravenscraig with its' plinth. Still able to reference the past in a cost effective stadium with a good design team. Don't know if anyone else noticed, but the recurring theme with every stadium they covered was seven day a week use. They were all designed with that in mind from the outset. Kansas City Current I think want to make a gimmick of the Missouri river. The openness of that stadium may struggle here due to our climate. But the proposed stadium in Denver have made a thing of it too. When I look around North Lanarkshire there's not much to drive people here despite having a huge population within a 30 minute drive. NLC were envious that residents would travel to Hamilton or East Kilbride to use their shopping centres if a trip to Glasgow couldn't be faced, taking money out the area. Ravenscraig is a chance to create a draw and the only way we can stay in the town if we want something new unless Dalzell plate mill goes the same way. When I look around the local area I see things like the Sunday markets at Chatelherault and think, well that works. It's why in the presentation I allowed for a space where food truck owners could use it as a base and be a draw for lunchtime and evening trade as a draw in itself plus somewhere to have a shared prep kitchen, storage, refrigeration and take unsocial hours deliveries. You tell these vendors that over and above everything else every two weeks you deliver 10,000 to 18,000 folk to them, again it all seems to be mutually beneficial. The other thing which is total pie in the sky is COSM, but we could emulate elements of it but it needs investment and brings risk. The story behind it is pretty cool: Fans in the video say they paid $140-180 for a ticket no doubt before the $15-20 beers, it late explains admission starts at $70, which is a very American trait and how their sports is moving with dynamic pricing. But I suppose if folk here are prepared to pay £30 for a Scotland fanpark for the WC and often pay a commensurate hourly rate at places like Top Golf then could you fill it with enough revenue per week to make it viable? Our market would favour football and there's cameras to buy and install and move to the next venue here and in Europe, but piggybacking off the feed for the two American based venues would be a start. I don't know what they do outside their camera's being at an event to keep the place turning over. I doubt they'd be keen as LA, Dallas and ...... some brownfield site in Lanarkshire doesn't really have the same oomph or align with their premium brand, would be a bit like Del Boy's Reliant Regal. But it's all stuff to think about and rule out than never think of at all.

I agree with the attendances, football success is cyclical. For us in recent memory the trend has been good for a couple of seasons then mediocre for a few, above average for one and repeat on a five year cycle, heavily influenced by manager, recruitment and academy progression. I do think a new stadium if designed wisely could get bump in attendances for home and away fans due to the novelty and nuance. What maintains that long term is emulating the footballing side from the past 18 months as much as possible. Hosting Livi midweek in early December has a lot cobwebs even now. I think you can do things integral to the design to enhance the atmosphere even at half capacity or less. Stuff like steep stands (building regs have it at 42 deg pitch max I think). Proximity of opposing fans, similar to the old shed where tribalism manifests and can flourish, one of my best memories was at Brockville and the too and fro'. Perception, situating the fans so on telly at least the stadium looks busier (ie none under the main TV gantry), Hampden does this when the OF aren't involved. If parts of the stadium are unused there's no need for stewarding, McLean stand for Ross County fixture for example. If you count the top flight three OF, potential of top six and a fourth, a city club requiring more than 4,800 tickets and a early cup tie then we have potential to oversell our current offering in roughly a quarter of our home fixtures, and outsell massively in three to five of those games. If projected income can be used to give us a much better stadium to enter when we get the keys, I see the negatives as minor. The spaces I suggested in the presentation, only one corner I envisaged as being office space (both for the club and an incubator space for SME's). The other corners/stands were a mixture of spaces where people have/wish/aspire to go to, such as a gym with or without a pool/dance studios, etc, street-food court and a "Makers Space", using one set up in Boston as an idea. I suggested our executive boxes could be used as hotel bedrooms on non match days. For me the stadium and it's spaces have to be fully dynamic, configurable and adaptable plus the asset has to be sweated massively outside the 25 games hosted per season. A coffee shop/restaurant is complimentary to all of the above and ensure the building would be in use universally almost 24hrs a day but certainly from 0700-2300 if all ideas employed. A 12,000 capacity allows us to mimic what we have at present by and large, except our current maintenance costs are swapped for a large mortgage and lesser maintenance costs, this would undoubtedly affect our player budget. Moving to 15,000 or 18,000 stadium allows the club in theory to recoup approximately £20m over 20 years from other clubs supporters to finance the stadium while filtering the same ticketing revenues we currently enjoy to fund the team. Add in increased home crowds, enhanced hospitality functions, rents of sub leases, etc. all of these allow us to move away from current peer clubs like St Mirren, Kilmarnock and Dundee.

Yeah funding is key, I took from the AGM we're due eight installments for Lennon spaced every six months, if we realise some or all of the interest in our players that's been brought up in the past couple of months then we in theory have a healthy downpayment to get the ball rolling. The skill is talking to institutional investors and making the case and extracting every penny from the public purse as possible. You'd hope the authorities see a fan owned community club as a different entity to Dermot Desmond or the 49ers when it comes to decision making. Issue is the developer of Ravenscraig has been sitting on it for 25 years with minimal movement for a host of reasons. If we make player sales in excess of what Lennon went for in back to back seasons then they'll know that and we move from being an anchor/draw to further development on the site to being asked for money for land that limits our ambition. We have a unique situation in Scotland where two clubs hoover up support from the entire country. I have no issue with following what Motherwell has done in the past and extracting every single green and blue pound possible. I'd also add the figures I cobbled together only account for three OF visits per season, we've qualified for the top six half of the time since the split was introduced, a high flying Hearts, Hibs or Aberdeen have potential to exceed the McLean if there were extra seats available, not to mention home cup ties before semi final stage. When you add National team matches at all levels there is plenty of scope for these to all be cream over and above any repayment commitments. With respect to the feasibility report, as things are kept close to the chest, maybe only enough to endorse the decision made at board level to sell it to the wider support. While I'd favour a move if the decision is a new POD then I'll shoulder shrug and see it as a lost opportunity. If it's a Ravenscraig move, then I suspect there were be a genuine heads gone from many.

Ha true-ish, my career path took a different twist so no beret, cravat and any clothing with arm patches as I never worked for a practice.

An indoor 200m one, not a 400m which I agree with you on. Not intrinsic to the design, just trying to sweat the asset. It would be below the pitch anyway and not get in the way.

Exactly, we would require two spaces to accommodate 18-20 stripped players plus 6-7 management team and a further room for officials. Add in showering/toilet facilities. Cost and logistics come into play for water/waste/electric hookups all for a space that will be redundant for only nine months of use. Personally I'd rather avoid anything temporary as it's money we'll never see back and put it into something we can use going forward. Also worth highlighting that Liverpool's Anfield Road redevelopment had the primary contractor going bust when they were on the home straight but already overrunning. As it turned out they got the keys a good six months behind schedule and had a lot of compo/apologies to make for tickets sold. Hearts also had a sizable overrun on their main stand. If we aimed for a one season build (mid May to Mid July the following year - 14 months) if there's any overrun say to Xmas then that seriously affects revenues when we assumed we'd be generating an increase on what they are now. I'd suspect a good number of local residents would make the planning process a pain but even those not classed as busy could easily highlight the regular disruption in a residential area. For me, Fir Park will always be limiting. As for what I'd love to see and I appreciate it's very much lottery win territory .... I covered much of it in the presentation, get a planning consultant well versed in extracting every penny from government. Find an architect with a track record of frugal but quality builds, highlight the need for off the shelf opposed to bespoke components, while a Zaha Hadid ornate roof is captivating and wins awards, pragmatic-industrial should be our brief and feeds into our heritage. Identify gaps in the market, at present there is only one covered football pitch in the UK, considering our climate that's both surprising and a bit wild but offers opportunity. The Northern Arizona Skydome was constructed in 1977 inexpensively, with it you have a unique space can be configured for indoor athletics to tennis, basketball, gymnastics, graduations, black tie banquets, exhibitions and concerts. NLC is in need of the latter, the area is in need of all the others, however the issue remains with the pitch, the easier option would be rails to allow it uninterrupted wind, rain and sunshine when it allows or wheeled inside if frost forecast. The alternative is permanent grass indoors that is managed with grow-lights, don't think that is feasible however. I'd look to have a 18,000 capacity, the reason for this is two fold, allow for an increase in our home gate over what we presently have (you have to have some ambition of growth) and exploit the away support (especially the OF). Chapman and Dickie realised and then maximised their visits with the McLean Stand in the early 90's. At present we sell 4,800, double that and the club has the ability to earn in excess of £20m over 20 years for those extra 5,000 seats. Jeopardy ensures if we are relegated or there's another Covid like event. However we can leverage borrowing based on future income without touching what we currently earn with our 13,000 stadium. Finally, the fear that FP can already feel a bit cold and echoey in mid-winter hosting Livi or Ross County, that is true, 5,000 extra seats to an 18,000 seater does not help that in the slightest unless you manage that seating. Moveable partitions based on the projected crowd to ensure supports are not spread out and any unused seating minimised on the TV coverage, helps alter perception. It would already be a novelty for locals and away fans due to it being indoor, streetfood pop ups to cater on matchdays in addition to traditional offerings, I'm sure we get an uplift in home support and away support off the back of the best stadium to visit, currently held by Tynecastle where demand outweighs supply. Stress testing/Devil Advocate: NLC is looking at closing sports centres and libraries to save money. I also don't know if the concert hall was a revenue generator worth the hassle of having it. Holyrood/Westminster is broke too thanks to stagnant/minimal growth. The Regional Sports Facility, NLC may not want its potential revenues harmed with a similar space next door. Thanks to the Commonwealth games in 2014, the Emirates beside Parkhead also offers an indoor venue for multiple indoor sports. Cost overruns are inevitable. As a club in the past we've often under-resourced initiatives and then surprised they didn't work. What I outlined is both pragmatic but also has many complex facets to it. It can be achievable and done on a budget but often contractors bill for perceived complexity regardless. And yes, I've got a Euromillions on.

I think the issue with the corners is the floodlight towers flanking the Cooper form part of its structure. I’ll look closer and check at the Hibs game, but I think they support the front girder that is hidden behind the advertisement. I don’t know how you fill them in with any hope of putting any seats in to justify the expenditure. The McLean needs major work and not only the seats and metalwork in the lower tier that have been exposed to 35 years of rain, wind and Green Brigade but I’d invite everyone to look at the underside of the roof with the triangular support braces at the next home game, it’s almost fully orange with rust.

Not cited directly but part of the final bullet point. It’s also in the presentation. I’ve also mentioned on P&B in the past that not only changing rooms but laundry, commercial kitchen, all hospitality offerings, manager and media offices, press conference space, etc. It also brings Club 100 into play as a temporary sticky plaster of sorts but I’d personally avoid that place like the plague. Relocation costs, temporary leases, loss of ticketing income, limited premium and minimal enhanced ticketing options plus having to segregate the McLean to accommodate the POD spillover, it all adds up very fast.

I'll throw my two cents into this debate as she who shall not be named ruined it the last time this surfaced. A year ago I wrote a presentation as I thought we had reached our Rubicon with respect to FP. It was written with Lennon's prospective transfer in mind as we were due to receive a second once in a generation fee for a player four years after the last one. With the success we've had this season we could be facing a high seven to low eight figure cumulative total this summer which only adds to our list of options. I think it's worth pointing out that while the McLean adds to the quirk of FP, since it was completed the second tier has earned us approximately £10-12m in extra revenue over a single tier stand. I suspect that extra income has played a major part in our 40+ top tier status and often kept the wolf from the door. For example, St Mirren will never sell more than 2,000 seats to away support in their 8k stadium. We will sell 20k extra away seats than them over a season which is approximately £400k in extra revenue. I should add, I'm very much a proponent of a new stadium and studied architecture at university, I’m just convinced in the modern game you need to have multiple ancillary income streams beyond hosting 25 or so games a season. However I'll flag some of the issues I've seen brought up on this thread already: It's human nature to be resistant to change, I can't fault anyone for nostalgia being a factor for them. We can't ignore FP is limited in what we can do or achieve. If we strive to be the best we can be on the pitch that should extend to what surrounds the pitch. Training Facility - We were looking at one in Muirhouse, now there's talk of Watling Street. A building with changing, physio, conditioning, gym, rehab, dining room and kitchen and possibly an integrated grandstand. If moving to a new stadium the first thing to consider would be a campus where all facilities are centrally located. The main stand could incorporate all of these functions to avoid duplication with training pitches around the stadium footprint (think Man City). Essentially the cost of a satellite facility could be absorbed and spent on the stadium to give an enhanced experience. Design - When there's so much to admire off the park in recruitment, transfers, etc. why would anyone assume the decision makers would drop the ball and not take heed and avoid the traits of all the poor stadiums constructed in the past 25 years. You'd think they'd look to Tynecastle as a very good basis for ideas. I think this fear is unfounded. Transport - Best not to use 2026 transport links to a pretty much empty site to what may evolve. Not many bus companies that would spot an opportunity and then not act on it. Income - Vast improvement on hospitality offering and revenues. Ability to hold all events PotY etc. in house, ramp up outside/midweek events. Look for business' that may want to be tenants, have facilities available for public 7am to 11pm such as cafe/restaurant/etc. and sweat the asset. Cost - Safe to say since covid base materials have jumped as has labour, what we may have faced years ago have increased at a rate of knots. However there are ways and means to address it. If we pursue a new stadium we would have a sizable down payment. We could easily sell the McLean twice over to the OF and that stand perfectly illustrates the precedent of maximising and exploiting the OF support. Look to grow home support from current 7k (still a bit mad to type that) to 9k and continue to allow away support a minimum of 5k (to maintain current away revenues) moves us into a 14k capacity stadium territory. If you assume every 1,000 away capacity we add we make at least £100k per season (1000 seat x three OF games x £33), expand that to 2,500 seats (17.5k stadium) and it's £250k per year extra over current revenues. Over 20 years that generates an extra £5m + inflation at the conservative end of the projections over and above what we earn now. Get top six in half those seasons, plus Hearts and Falkirk have shown this season could easily bring in excess of the McLean 4,800 capacity if it was possible. The cost, upheaval and disruption of demolishing the POD and it's replacement out of commission for at least one full season cannot be overlooked. That stand is our primary breadwinner and our revenues during the construction would face a 7-figure loss in addition to the build cost. I appreciate a lot of the above is back of fag packet sums but I'm happy to address any omissions, errors or oversights if highlighted. I have one idea that I think would have legs but it would need major central and local government involvement but I don't think there's anything in the pot. Future Stadium - Presentation

Been by P&B recently? https://forum.pieandbovril.com/topic/295263-motherwell-fc-a-thread-for-all-seasons-v20/page/127/#findComment-17494643

The post here was upvoted because it contents resonated, rather than eager to slate you (inevitably you default to the negative), I would hope most, like me, would have hoped for some introspection and a change in behaviour because often threads are taken off on a tangent, often any fun sapped out. Alas, as sure as the sun will rise in the East tomorrow, a well worn and predictable cycle returns. The moderators must have shared the same eyebrow raise when you used my name here considering it is what was cited as "bang out of order" and set you off a year ago. The mock outrage at the time is now shown to be disingenuous and lacking any hint of self awareness not to recognise the hypocrisy of you now doing so. But that was never what it was about eh? This was only ever done to be provocative because that's the soup you swim in. How many of your nine lives have you used up on here? Fair play to the moderators, they have patience well in excess of mine for all the extra work you bring them in what is unpaid and often a thankless task. I don't know if you followed through on your threat to contact the club CEO, or it was felt the not so cryptic posts on social media were enough. The problem is you take things into the real world to denigrate and negatively influence others, the very thing you cite as being a victim of, you also employ with gusto. You were asked without any ambiguity to cease engaging, slandering or invoking me and here we are again. You really can't help yourself. Strike Two.

I can maybe clarify some stuff as I and a few other contributors on here were involved as a sounding board by Leeann and Derek Weir. From the club website in 2013: https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2013/03/19/well-society-sign-up-night/ Junior Steel Membership – £25 (for juveniles under 15) Steel Membership – £300 Claret Membership – £,1000 Amber Membership – £5,000 1886 Membership – £25,000 The annual fee was to keep your benefits alive (which at the time were pretty substantial), from memory Amber benefits for an annual renewal fee of £1,000 maybe? you got stuff totalling way more than annual contribution. Not paying the annual fee did NOT affect your voting rights, just access to the benefits as per your tier. The £300 barrier to entry was something they were aware of at the time and DD's were floated at launch but there were fears it had financial compliance issues with the WS being a provident society. A few years down the line Hearts blazed that trail and we embraced it but more as a means to appeal to a wider audience to attain £300 steel membership (and beyond if you wished) in easier to swallow chunks. It was not sold as a universal adoption by all members, more it would be nice if you did. I can recall from when £5 was deposited new members post 2015 got their membership pack and voting rights which caused some consternation at the time, over them getting to £300 deposited, maybe it was part of the sales tool to boost membership.

If that’s the case then I apologise for linking that post to me. However, the reason I drew that conclusion is pretty valid because there’s been wee digs since and September on various platforms. Regardless, your response is measured and I suppose that has to be seen as progress.