Goggles & Flippers

Any different from criticisms after the appointment of: Jim Gannon ... who? isn't he mental? Craig Brown ... too old? McCall ... currant bun tendencies? Bradford record? Personally I think and hope it will be someone off the radar.

Please take this as constructive, I do appreciate what you are doing. You're all mates and therefore all your views are pretty much aligned, what tends to happen is someone makes and point and the other two inevitably agree. As much as someone like Steelboy trolls on here, sometimes you need a bit of that to make the debate interesting.

He appears philanthropic but also an astute businessman. For his name to be released after all the secrecy tells us that it has to be close to an announcement. For those rubbishing the South American consortium I also have the thought of Dundee in the back of my mind. However I hope they don't go onto to take over another club and it makes me think back to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and what could have been.

This place is mental. Nah ditch Butcher because he's had one good gig, one poor one, one good gig, one poor one. VS Former players who's records we're not fully versed with, some conjecture and managing in leagues where the situation surrounding things is hard for us to quantify. And there's some cyber-throwing of season tickets already. God Almighty

If so, it'll be interesting to know the one member one vote will work when the majority of the 1,000 members have contributed £300 and there will be one who has contributed £1 million ish.

Club has to be clever on this, didn't one of two at the time McCall was appointed take the hump they weren't the first choice (Sbragia?) With respect to Black, I would imagine the board know as soon as McCall gets a new gig he will follow quickly afterwards.

So a solution is to snipe from the wings on an online forum, the beauty of the WS is that any member can influence things if they garner enough support. If you have no desire to do so then that's your business. You're not asked to run the club, lets be clear. If you make the full club board then you would be presented with information and be in a position to ask pertinent questions, afterwards you would vote with the position of those you represent in mind. Primarily the running of the club would stay 90% the way it does already. Weir, McMahon and Burrows will continue to run the club they seem to have a bit of an idea of how Scottish Football works. At present if JB wants the club to go in a certain direction then it does, if the WS become the controlling party then it will be I suspect by majority rule (by which I mean the board, not a referendum to the general WS membership). You merely influence the direction it takes not the implementation.

You banking on Ainsworth giving more than 65% in a game too?

Fizoxy's point is the dilemma the club faces, keep a player who on paper gives us our best hopes of getting results or cut our cloth in January and don't look to extend his loan and hope we ensure SPFL status come May. Speculating to accumulating is a risky business, pat on the back if it works out, "told you so, idiot" if it doesn't

Didn't agree with everything but that's the idea isn't it

In May we have 10 players who's contracts are up. So with respect to next season the club will be forced to restructure to live within pretty conservative projections I suspect. Not that the current ones are outrageous, at the start of the season top 6, 4 Europa games and 3/4 cup games would have been pretty conservative. With respect to the WS funding the club I would hope not, it was never the intention that Any sustainable business should not spend more than it brings in unless money due to come in in pretty much guaranteed. The nature of the industry is it's results based and win's equal prizes. We are a selling club and we've failed to sell anyone for any tangible amounts. The fact Darren Randolph couldn't be punted in 3 seasons but Arnier could just shows how much it's outwith our hands at times. Pretty much over 10 years there haven't been anyone approach the cub with an offer considered acceptable. The WS evolved from JB indicating he finally wanted an exit strategy. The club has been a nice toy that he got his fingers burned on a couple of times with and enjoyed a few nice trips and days with a flower in his lapel. However he doesn't want the burden any longer. Dempster as his employee merely followed out his instructions. We've been "driven to the brink" due to the decline in Scottish football (which can and has been discussed at length elsewhere), not capitalising at key games (cup games) and our inability to sell our assets for a fraction of what they're really worth. JB just doesn't fancy being around for the upturn as I doubt he can predict when it will happen. From reading past posts on these boards some of the things Dee has conveyed about what happened in Norway with fan engagement is the only way forward to reinvigorate. We sit as "best of the rest" pretty much for 3 seasons and that adds what .... 150-200 to a gate? We have a poor run and we're 1,000-1,500 down. However I think many were itching for a while to walk and recent performances helped excuse that behaviour. What annoys me is too many people can't find fault, pour scorn and question those involved intentions on an online message-board but few offer tangible solutions. All you do is make others considering offering their time and effort reluctant to do so to avoid scorn, ridicule and abuse. Easy solution, if you are personally unhappy, next time a board member is to be elected, come on here, convey your manifesto and garner support and deliver, it appears 35 or so votes will do it. Otherwise, have your reservations by all means, but in the meantime, if you wouldn't mind sticking your shoulder to the wheel and help push the cart up the hill that would be pretty cool thanks.

Jesus, just +1'd a Steelboy comment

Know something or not optimistic?

Merit to what CoF is saying here, however in both games we had fight, we also rode our luck for lengthy periods. Issue going forward that anyone coming in has to get results from players who were performing 8 months ago but aren't now. We've seen glimmers but no continuity or belief. As to the ownership, its safe to say if the WS are the controlling entity then I would be surprised if Black didn't see out his contract until the end of the season or until McCall is offered another gig and he'd move without requiring compensation. If its another party/group, then you would think they'd like to appoint their own guy. Long and short is though that if McCall hadn't imploded this season we'd have continuity till May and any new owner would have probably been content to keep him in post until then. I have always been a fan of McCall, I didn't want him to go but the articles on the BBC are too much, he walked with no answers and because he did that he's been given the "integrity" moniker. Over time he didn't identify that pace and changing things up regularly so our opposition knew exactly how to combat us.

Roy Keane has just walked from Aston Villa, he'd certainly put the fear of God into the senior pro's ..........

Y es but if theres a chance he could get something back (from someone else other than the WS) then I'm sure he'll give it some thought. Plus he's not going to relinquish them before the date he set, the end of November was for the WS to prove they had enough in the tank to run the club going forward.

I think its safe to say JB wants nothing more to do with the club, he dabbled, got some good times out of it along with a few bad, however doesn't want the liability going forward. To think otherwise is not looking at the evidence of the past couple of years.

Brazilian is correct, no details of rival bids and no acknowledgement of them. Odd situation as WS are on one hand are looking to take control of the club while two board members are sitting on the main club board and surely privvy to any other interested parties. Are they asked to leave the meeting or are these other offers discussed without the WS present? Brian was asked if there was a rival bid, if the WS would have preference or any assurances. At that stage Flow advised it was always JB's desire to see the club go into fan ownership. A better question may have been if there's a rival bid and it's in excess of the WS total (£1.5m), what will happen then? To be fair its not a question the WS could answer unless they'd asked JB direct in advance.

The discussions at present as I understand are to gain additional funds to take the WS to the 800k threshold. All that does is buy more time to raise the additional funds +550k to take full control of the club. A stay of execution if you will. Agree with Brazilian, too many who attend can't distinguish between the role and remit of the WS and the and remit of the club board. As for Steelboy, you and the two who attended with you took an aggressive approach with your line of questions, don't know what you hope to achieve with behaviour like that. To suggest Brian got a kickback to keep his mouth shut had many cringing in their seats. Regardless, by this time next week we'll be better informed and a lot of the hearsay and conjecture will be put to bed.

Be so good as to link to a post you made before this season started where you voice those concerns about Dempster and poor budgeting

I look forward to you changing that -1 to a +1 in the next month Brazilian, you heard it here first

In all serious though I expect if this advanced due diligence will be done before signing on the dotted line as Murray may get his behind felt for offloading Rangers to Whyte, I'm sure Boyle wants no chance of being accused of punting us on to a bunch of chancers. I suspect no Nobby Solano anywhere near FP. Black given his jotters so he can link up with McCall's next gig. WS Members to get their cash back in a lump sum. A number of people behind the scenes given golden handshakes or made walk.

Fuck this, thread starting pish, every time we get beaten, shite

Hindsight's a great quality gents, any more pearls of wisdom?

If this goes through as outlined I doubt the current board will have any say at all as who get appointed, longevity or not. I would also suggest that many backroom employees at the club at present may be sidelined for this consortium's own personnel to be installed. While on paper the idea of this seems very encouraging and certainly excites with the potential, we don't live in a Football Manager 2007 world where hidden gems are found easily and nurtured. Let's not ignore some of the personnel reported to be involved have a dodgy track record and if the Toronto events already outlined are true then it doesn't bode well. I can't help but feel this whole scheme will be looked back on in 5 years time if it goes ahead in a similar vein to what Dundee fans look back on the time under crook lawyer Giovanni Di Stefano with Caniggia and Ketsbaia in their squad. I would hope if an offer is tabled it is scrutinised and given proper due diligence by those tasked. But let's not ignore Boyle's strong desire for an exit strategy and how money does talk.