Goggles & Flippers

Merit to what CoF is saying here, however in both games we had fight, we also rode our luck for lengthy periods. Issue going forward that anyone coming in has to get results from players who were performing 8 months ago but aren't now. We've seen glimmers but no continuity or belief. As to the ownership, its safe to say if the WS are the controlling entity then I would be surprised if Black didn't see out his contract until the end of the season or until McCall is offered another gig and he'd move without requiring compensation. If its another party/group, then you would think they'd like to appoint their own guy. Long and short is though that if McCall hadn't imploded this season we'd have continuity till May and any new owner would have probably been content to keep him in post until then. I have always been a fan of McCall, I didn't want him to go but the articles on the BBC are too much, he walked with no answers and because he did that he's been given the "integrity" moniker. Over time he didn't identify that pace and changing things up regularly so our opposition knew exactly how to combat us.

Roy Keane has just walked from Aston Villa, he'd certainly put the fear of God into the senior pro's ..........

Y es but if theres a chance he could get something back (from someone else other than the WS) then I'm sure he'll give it some thought. Plus he's not going to relinquish them before the date he set, the end of November was for the WS to prove they had enough in the tank to run the club going forward.

I think its safe to say JB wants nothing more to do with the club, he dabbled, got some good times out of it along with a few bad, however doesn't want the liability going forward. To think otherwise is not looking at the evidence of the past couple of years.

Brazilian is correct, no details of rival bids and no acknowledgement of them. Odd situation as WS are on one hand are looking to take control of the club while two board members are sitting on the main club board and surely privvy to any other interested parties. Are they asked to leave the meeting or are these other offers discussed without the WS present? Brian was asked if there was a rival bid, if the WS would have preference or any assurances. At that stage Flow advised it was always JB's desire to see the club go into fan ownership. A better question may have been if there's a rival bid and it's in excess of the WS total (£1.5m), what will happen then? To be fair its not a question the WS could answer unless they'd asked JB direct in advance.

The discussions at present as I understand are to gain additional funds to take the WS to the 800k threshold. All that does is buy more time to raise the additional funds +550k to take full control of the club. A stay of execution if you will. Agree with Brazilian, too many who attend can't distinguish between the role and remit of the WS and the and remit of the club board. As for Steelboy, you and the two who attended with you took an aggressive approach with your line of questions, don't know what you hope to achieve with behaviour like that. To suggest Brian got a kickback to keep his mouth shut had many cringing in their seats. Regardless, by this time next week we'll be better informed and a lot of the hearsay and conjecture will be put to bed.

Be so good as to link to a post you made before this season started where you voice those concerns about Dempster and poor budgeting

I look forward to you changing that -1 to a +1 in the next month Brazilian, you heard it here first

In all serious though I expect if this advanced due diligence will be done before signing on the dotted line as Murray may get his behind felt for offloading Rangers to Whyte, I'm sure Boyle wants no chance of being accused of punting us on to a bunch of chancers. I suspect no Nobby Solano anywhere near FP. Black given his jotters so he can link up with McCall's next gig. WS Members to get their cash back in a lump sum. A number of people behind the scenes given golden handshakes or made walk.

Fuck this, thread starting pish, every time we get beaten, shite

Hindsight's a great quality gents, any more pearls of wisdom?

If this goes through as outlined I doubt the current board will have any say at all as who get appointed, longevity or not. I would also suggest that many backroom employees at the club at present may be sidelined for this consortium's own personnel to be installed. While on paper the idea of this seems very encouraging and certainly excites with the potential, we don't live in a Football Manager 2007 world where hidden gems are found easily and nurtured. Let's not ignore some of the personnel reported to be involved have a dodgy track record and if the Toronto events already outlined are true then it doesn't bode well. I can't help but feel this whole scheme will be looked back on in 5 years time if it goes ahead in a similar vein to what Dundee fans look back on the time under crook lawyer Giovanni Di Stefano with Caniggia and Ketsbaia in their squad. I would hope if an offer is tabled it is scrutinised and given proper due diligence by those tasked. But let's not ignore Boyle's strong desire for an exit strategy and how money does talk.

Completely off topic now, but while I like the fact we are evolving, maybe not at a rate acceptable to some and too fast for many others, we are progressing. However I'm pretty sure its not only middle aged white men who are the one's dishing out the one liners and put downs, I'm pretty sure Jo Brand has made a career out of it and going on about how much cake she consumes. People on all sides, all backgrounds and all associations make silly references and comments that with hindsight they regret (granted sometimes not because they are contrite, it's to take the heat off them) or their opinion changes over time. Growing up in West Central Scotland as a 16 year old I have little time of gays, if anyone at school did anything other than macho they were labelled a poof and to not pour scorn got you labelled as one too. All these years later I've worked around the world with a great deal of gay people and interacted and also socialised on a daily basis. Do I feel the same as I did as a 16 year old, no. Should I be judged on my opinions as a 16 year old, I hope not. With respect to Mackay, in these days of heightened media exposure a light is shone on it that once wouldn't have been many years back. Does he deserve another chance, yes. Will he make the same mistake again, I doubt it. Debates like this always remind me back to the Celeb Big Brother scandal where Jade Goody was vilified for racist behaviour to Shilpa Shetty. Yes she was guilty of jealousy, bullying and exclusion by forming a clique. The thing the media picked up on was how she said when she cooked it tasted of curry and did her accent for laughs with her mates. Always wonders if it was a Scottish housemate and Jade was to suggest everything was deep fried, tasted of Haggis and Irn Bru and did a "hoots mon, where's yer troosers?" would she have been hauled over the coals as much? Back to the football please.

Any player having 2 bad games in a row would be transfer listed under those two. However lets not ignore the fact that 75% of the current squad would be handed P45's on day one of the regime.

I've got 100 shares in Shell and 150 in RBS, doesn't mean I influenced their last executive appointments. I suspect the board (including 2 WS appointees) will do it. Don't think that being a WS member means you have anything like a say, get away from that mindset.

Mid December at the earliest, by which Kenny may have made a tangible case to be considered.

What I get from that is, nothing before the end of November and probably a couple of weeks into December by the time the WS deadline has passed to the dust settles, however probably before the January transfer window opens as the new guy may want to release/bring in/sell on players (if possible) rather than being tied until May with McCall's squad.

There does seem to be a prominence in football these day for these FIFA badges. I think that's why JJ came to the club as his badges allowed the club to resource extra central funding that Youngie couldn't. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think we've proven repeatedly, quite often managers with no or a ropey track record can produce the goods, granted some more successfully than others. What some of the commenters above are really saying is "Everyone needs to start somewhere, just not at my club", that about right?

Always wondered what an interview for a manager involves. Tell us about what you've achieved Who you've worked under What did you take from each of these managers What would you copy or build on What do you know about the club What room for improvement have you identified on the park How would you address that Where would you like to be in 5 years time What would you do immediately on a daily basis Would you change anything with respect to the training regime/player working day Would you be happy to work with any existing staff or bring your own What exposure do you have to potential players (lower /foreign leagues) Where would you source them What contacts do you have at clubs/acquaintances/former colleagues to get loans Anyone you think you can bring here on your notoriety Any others I've missed? Anyone linked with us tick more yes' than no's?

Or have you considered Vigurs and Lawson have shared their experiences? Odds shortening is upsetting. I don't think he fits the bill and doesn't sit with how the club choose gaffers. I'd be interested to see Bogarde, quite a CV and no doubt worked under some greats and could implement a few decent changes with the help of Johannsen as they no doubt have a continental approach to things. If it does materialise, will Scottish players get involved or spit the dummy?

As sense in OTF's post. Best thing for fan ownership is impending doom, best of the rest for 3 seasons straight unfortunately isn't a motivator.

I think a professional football player has to also hold his hands up and say "aye, but I'm a wee bit culpable too"

Well lets look at the positives, Billy Davies .... been around the block, done pretty well some places, average to poor elsewhere, there's a lot of that though. Maybe he could bring best mate Tommy Sheridan with him to fill the vacant Media role, Tommy does like a wee chat and can spin things positively. Burrows sounds like Dempster? .... Did he say he fancied birds? If so .... identical. As for Kenny Black, his change in formation to combat what Utd put up tonight maybe shows he was overruled by McCall, maybe we are being a little unfair of him because he was part of the malaise of the past few months.

No bounce that always happens after a managerial departure? Not a formation change then? While a lot of negative criticism has been leveled at Black, mostly due to taint by association, are we being unfair? I have read comments where people said if there was a result and it would be disastrous, would it? If so, how come? Adapting effectively tonight to Dundee Utd's threats with a degree of coherence makes me wonder if he was overruled regularly?

Agree completely with that, its as if they have no desire to better themselves. John Collins wanted to implement a 9-5 culture, diet, tactics, fitness and conditioning. Scottish pro's want to go to Nando's, play snooker and hit Willie Hill's sadly. Kinda why I'm happy one of the countries best prospects in Ryan Gauld has got out of it here and is off to Portugal. I think young guys would be a little receptive but the older guys would get annoyed it eats into their FIFA time.