dennyc
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Posts posted by dennyc
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9 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:
He's turning out to be as big a pain in the arse as a manager as he was a player.
Interesting that a relative rookie was able to beat us tactically at the first time of asking when an old hand like Levein couldn't do it in 3 attempts.
Was he not in charge of Morton when Donnelly scored a late extra time winner at Fir Park to avoid a penalty shoot out? They put up a decent showing that game as well although we did waste lots of chances and dominate possession.
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10 minutes ago, FirParkCornerExile said:
I've had 46 years of moving on , it's water off a ducks back within a day. I'm as close to chucking as I've ever been. I am seriously bored watching this year on year whinge about being skint , year on year fuck ups in Cups, year on year having to rebuild from loan deals every 6 months. I seriously question what would I miss.
It's OK when you are young there is an air of excitement about it all but as you get older and see the same script year on year the attraction diminishes, well thats how I feel, maybe some other who started watching us in the 1970s still get the excitement.
Since 1966 for me and I know exactly how you feel.
The issues within our Club run a lot deeper than whoever happens to be Manager. My main concern is I don't see anything encouraging me to believe things will improve any time soon. Any enjoyment I get is short term as the next disappointment/crisis is just around the corner. It is a chore to go to some games now and purchasing a Season Ticket fells more like a duty. But you might be right, it could be just an age thing😄.
The only comfort I take is that fans of other Clubs are experiencing similar issues. Why should that be the case? Perhaps despite ever improving facilities, sport science etc. etc., due to financial constraints and poor governance of the game, the standard we are witnessing is falling season upon season and consideration for fans is a thing of the past.
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26 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:
Some truth in that. Of course SK had his reasons, but whether they were right or not is another matter. It would not have harmed us to have given Vale more game time against Killie and/or Ross County and either started him on Friday or brought him on earlier. As it was Imrie knew exactly how we'd set up and did a proper job on us.
Agree with this. Personally I think the last half hour v County was a missed opportunity. Then again, if SK had made numerous substitutions on the hour and County had fought back, he would have been slaughtered for throwing away three precious points.
Also, as much as some fans have an OTT dislike of Imrie, perhaps he is turning out to be a very good Manager and an astute tactician. Credit where credit's due. He did us over.
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19 minutes ago, smiddy said:
so its beetween adam devine and the bus driver
Forget the bus driver. He took the rest to the game so that rules him out. And he took them home when they should have been made to walk back.
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15 minutes ago, wellgirl said:
I'm just going to say this quite plainly. You wrote every new signing we had off on another thread. Before they had even kicked a ball.
You also suggested that Bair wasn't good enough. As for your digs that Kettlewell isn't good enough and a baboon would be better this is the same Kettlewell who saved us last season. I have no time and I mean none for people who want to boot the team when they are on a bad run and I have even less time for people who do nothing but make snide digs at the manager and other posters on here.
You are completely entitled to your opinion by the way. I just don't need to agree with it.
Well said.
May I add to your list those that go into hiding when the team put in a good performance or certain players perform well. Or alternatively go into denial when one of the chosen few performs badly. The days after the County game being a standout example.
Yes, of course they are entitled to their opinion. But those opinions might actually carry a bit more credence if they were more balanced, less obsessive and more constructive.
I sometimes wonder if they actually sit there desperate for us to get a hiding so they can say "Told you so. He is shite"
Every player has good and bad days. Every Manager has good and bad days. But you would think that was not the case if you listened to a few on here.
Thankfully they are in the minority. Noisy but fairly few in number.
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1 hour ago, steelboy said:
Aye as I said it's a scam.
41 million a year to help poor kids in Paisley and you can guarantee most of the people who run it will be driving Range Rovers or BMWs.
Not a scam at all. All legal and well found by St Mirren
The fact it riles you does not make it wrong. Maybe our Board need to be a wee bit more creative. Maybe they do have such an arrangement with local Charities?
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23 minutes ago, steelboy said:
They are a charity. They can't give St Mirren money.
So how come they can purchase 27.5% of the Clubs Shares?
The answer is that Charities such as Kibble are allowed to invest funds on the basis that the kids they look after receive a direct benefit as a result. They have a working Partnership with St Mirren that benefits both parties. They also provide additional support in non playing areas that is of mutual benefit. Basically they are paying for a service, which as a by product provides benefits to Saint Mirren and reduces their own outgoings.
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13 minutes ago, David said:
But how are they able to do that? Aren't St Mirren fan owned? Just like us?
They are owned by a fan group, but only to the extent of 51%. So not like us. A local Charity....Kibble who look after kids I think.....also bought just over 25% of shares with the rest being privately owned.
So technically fan owned, but a bit like the Norwegian model we discussed whereby local Companies/Individuals enter into a Partnership Agreement.. Helping to fund various non football playing aspects of the Business. Perhaps that frees up funds for transfer business or perhaps the other investors contribute? They actually had less Members than the Well Society at last count but their model would appear to provide a better operating balance. I think....but not certain....that most German Clubs are 51% fan owned which also allows scope for that outside investment. Red Bull upset that applecart and that is why most fans/clubs detest them.
Our problem could be that the fans own too many shares, leaving no scope for outside investment. Whatever, they would look to be in a healthier position than we are.
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15 minutes ago, AllyMax said:
On the upside, Hay coming in gave us the best section of a season ever, 7-0, 5-0, fucking over Hearts to stop them coming up.......but was it worth the crap that went before ?
15 May 1982. Enjoyed the whole season but that result at Tynecastle was the icing on the cake. Wonderful.
Place almost burst into flames when the Killie HT score came in. And the best bit was that we already had the League won but our players and fans wanted more.
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2 minutes ago, steelboy said:
I've known he's coming for a couple of weeks and had a look at what's been said about him.
So you have never seen him play then.
And you've been going on what their fans say. Do Lincoln have a steelboy perhaps? If so, he had no chance.
At least give the lad one appearance before writing him off.
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23 minutes ago, steelboy said:
Our striking options are Bair and Vale both of whom are poor players.
When did you see Vale play? Did you pop down to Lincoln for a match?
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Unreal as it sounds, £6m is nothing to the Knights and will likely be offset in some tax set up anyway. Hibs contributing to operate in profit and increasing that profit over the years might be all he is looking for on the financial front Stability. At the very least, and following the demise of Gordon. Foley's business sense will likely help them to that end. Any trophy success being the icing on the cake providing that fuzzy feeling you mentioned. Not in our world, but there are folk out there that have so much money they can afford to be less return driven.
As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, Hutchison was willing to invest without any real hope of meaningful return. And he was an astute self made multi millionaire who you would not expect to invest on a non return basis. Even allowing for sentiment.
Maybe Foley just likes using his loose change to see what results he can achieve. Who knows?
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2 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:
I'm very wary of anything the Scotsman writes about Hertz or Hibs. I recall a few years ago when Hearts were about £22m in debt and an article in said publication painted a very rosy picture of this debt situation. On reading it, I was almost going to ring Fir Park to plead with the powers that be to also run a £20m+ debt. What a great idea! If Hearts could do it why couldn't we?
Then reality kicked in and I never did ring.
Good point but I don't think Foley will have the same influence with the Scotsman as Anne Budge has. It is almost at Celtic and The Sun levels.
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19 minutes ago, David said:
Again, what does he get out of this? That's all I want to know. Why doesn't he lay out exactly what he gets from this? Beyond the warm fuzzies of being a good egg and all that, of course.
Again, the same question applies here. If, in theory, a bigger club wants to "affiliate" with a club like ours, the question is why? They obviously don't need us, so why are they doing it?
And it's not so much getting screwed over that doesn't sit right with me. It's the fact that such relationships often change the club at its very core.
It's extremely rare that extremely wealthy people or organisations part with their money without wanting something in return. If they were the type of people to do that, they wouldn't be where they are in life.
Fair comment I guess. But Foley and his Group do not appear to be fly by nights investing on a whim. And they don't appear (to my amateur eye) to be fleecing Clubs as per the Glaziers at Man Utd. With safeguards in place I think it is a great opportunity for Hibs. With old man Gordon popping his clogs and with his family perhaps less committed they were at a crossroads. But I agree they need to be careful as well as open minded.
Foley has stuck with the Organisations he has invested in and eventually brought them success after gradual improvement. Even his first venture, the Ice Hockey team did the impossible and won the Stanley Cup. He is still involved and committed by all accounts. That augers well for his other involvements.
Maybe the guys from the US that regularly post on here could tell us what the views are on him over there?
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10 minutes ago, Stuwell2 said:
I’ve mixed feeling on this, I can see where Dennyc is coming from and can broadly agree with it - although I’m confused with the egotistical Hutchison part as a guy who gives the club £1m, doesn’t put any conditions on what’s done with it and doesn’t ask for it back ain’t very egotistical in my book.
On the main point of the - potential - future of the club, yes there seems to be benefits in some sort of tie in with others and at this moment in time there appears to be decent protection against investors screwing clubs but that can change and is possibly why people are investing so I’m nervous about that.
Having said that the potential downside that we could be left dropping further behind our competitors and those below us leaving us a championship team or worse means that I think we must seriously look at the options before ruling them out.Fair play on the philanthropy shown by Hutchinson. My comment was more about the dictatorial way he ran the show until he had had enough and left, although as you rightly say he did not scupper us by withdrawing funds. Another discussion, but for me that entire process led us to the questionable structure we have today. But yeah, egotistical was possibly the wrong word. Apologies.
But as far as the Hibs situation goes, if any astute american businessman with a good track record were to offer us £6m up front with little strings attached, then I would be all for it. There is a good article in the Scotsman regards the arrangement which covers a lot of the doubts folk have. Whether those folk are prepared to take his comments at face value is up to them. I also get that lots of people like to stick with tradition.
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22 minutes ago, David said:
It depends on what you mean by a "big gun."
An individual with money? Someone like Bill Foley, who fancies losing a few million for a laugh by "investing" in a Scottish football team?
Or the ownership group of an already established English club that sees us as a feeder or "B team" of sorts?
What is Foley's track record? I've not been aware of anything of concern from the various organisations he has bought into. Football or otherwise. Or that he is into asset stripping or lining his pockets at the expense of an Organisation. Scotland has had its home grown share of those in the past and he does not fit that pattern. .
The fact his Group has interests in numerous Clubs worldwide sets them apart from any Group with one established Club looking for a wee feeder Club. And with their money, why would they need a feeder Club? He could just buy who he wants.
I understand your suspicion and caution. But I really don't see what the issue is in this case. Time will tell if it works out but I think it is interesting and exciting times ahead for Hibs. Certainly on a more stable basis than when Boyle decided we could take on the big boys.
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1 minute ago, steelboy said:
No for me it will be the same as Lamie. There's no reason to drop him just as long as we don't resign the cunt.
Anyway I'm hearing that the bottom of the barrel is being scraped as we speak and Kettlewell has another gem on the way.
How about your distortion of facts? Conveniently ignored.
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38 minutes ago, steelboy said:
He was that good for Kilmarnock that they sent him on loan to St Mirren.
Again you like to distort facts. He signed a pre transfer agreement with St Mirren so Killie opted to let him go on Loan rather than pay his wages to warm the Bench. His Manager said he would no longer be a first choice as he was leaving at season end. He had featured in most matches up to the January.
Probably what you will demand regards Spittal if his St Mirren rumour is true.
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13 minutes ago, gaz7 said:
personal opinion i cant see any downside of a tie up with some big gun. All their knowledge , expertise and players etc etc can only be a good thing. Im reading a lot of the what ifs? this is bad thats bad etc etc when in reality anyyone wanting involved from so called big gun is obviously very astute in business and in all cases are billionaires and so the chance of them failing is a lot lower than some wee guy coming in with a couple of a million in his back pocket or continuing to be run by amateurs as a lot on here mostly say we are at the moment and have been for a while (not my view). Think of the positives.
This is may take on it. I really don’t see where this B Club nonsense is coming from. Pure fiction and lacking in fact although it does make a good story.
Given the terms of the Hibs deal, Foley purchases a minority share holding of under 30%. And has no direct control over football matters. The Board continues to run the show as happens everywhere. Again Foley is a minority. The deal must also to meet UEFA criteria re multi ownership. I have heard no suggestion that Foley is even seeking Security of Easter Road or other Hibs Assets although that could be a condition that would concern fans. .
In return Hibs are getting £6m up front to be spent on facilities, youth development and transfers. With more funds to come for next season.
Losing all their best players to other teams in the ownership Group? If they do move players it will be for a transfer fee as happens now given every team is a selling Club. Regulations are in place to ensure that market value is respected. And if they get loaned young prospects, where is the problem with that? Nobody complained about Biereth when we were the beneficiaries.The only nonsense we have not had spouted so far is that Doidge will be off to Vegas to play for Foley’s Ice Hockey team.
Looking at our own circumstances I would be delighted with such an arrangement. Rather that than have impulsive egotists like Boyle and Hutchinson in charge. Or the alternative of being consigned to the lower leagues, turning into East Stirling or the like. I do accept that some fans do not like the way football is developing and passionately want Clubs to remain as they once were. Fair enough and I respect them for that. I just don’t think it is sustainable in most cases. Certainly not in top divisions.
Where exactly is the additional danger of big business funding or supporting any Club? It is happening worldwide. The exact same financial dangers exist if a Club is family run, fan owned, Bank controlled or one man’s plaything. Funds can dry up or be withdrawn.
Good luck to Hibs. Well done.
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13 hours ago, David said:
So, after this weekend I have to say that I've officially been won over by Theo Bair.
As most of you know, I had very little hope of seeing him be a success at Motherwell, despite really hoping he would be. He's worked hard and has proved his doubters, including me, wrong. And I've never been happier to be wrong. We all love a "lad comes good" story, and this is one of them.
Let's hope it continues for him and he can even hit double figures!
I think you are being a wee bit hard on yourself. You were certainly not wrong to question the signing for the valid reasons you highlighted. He is doing well now and his attitude and effort sets an excellent example. Whether he is a long term solution remains to be seen but for now the project has worked fine. He needs support up front though and he should hit that double figure tablet.
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1 hour ago, wellfan said:
IWe've had calm heads and supported him, as a club, by giving him another transfer window, which many would argue is undeserved.
In percentage terms of all Motherwell fans what level does "many" represent? At one time it might have been around 50/50 but I think his support has strengthened a fair bit since the depths of Ross County. Going by what I see and hear at matches most fans believe his position should be reviewed at season end. Does not mean they are entirely convinced though.
Kind of reflects the majority on this forum.
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23 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:
You could make your point by using actual stats instead of exaggerating them. We just had 25 days without a league game.
Here is another inventive fact
"It didn't work out for Courts in Hungary but he's still got more achievements to his name as a manager than Kettlewell. "
The truth is Courts has won nothing as a Manager in the senior Leagues. East of Scotland League in 2018 was his last success. It is also the truth that in that same year Kettlewell won the Championship and Challenge Cup as a Manager.
As for today. We gained a point on two teams we hope to finish above. For me that is a positive. If we are ahead of both at the split then we are in the driving seat.
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15 minutes ago, steelboy said:
I'm talking about Kettlewell in the Premiership including his time at Ross County.
It didn't work out for Courts in Hungary but he's still got more achievements to his name as a manager than Kettlewell. He might just be average but Kettlewell is shite. Livingston can't sack Martindale so we won't finish bottom this season but we shouldn't accept what are suffering through right now. We are getting close to 1 league win in 5 full months of football.
Those goalposts moving again then.
So to clarify
You are proposing that we employ a person who walked out on one Club, left his position with another two Clubs by mutual consent within a season and has been unemployed since. So much for reducing risk.
I can understand why you don't rate Kettlewell and fair enough. You're not alone. But Courts! Really?
Why can't Livi sack Martindale? Has he something on them or are the Board scared of him?
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17 minutes ago, purestate said:
Given this is the StJ thread what’s people’s thoughts on how they have fared since appointing Levein? He’s an experienced coach with degree of success in this league who’s now had a few months and almost an entire transfer window to bring in “his” choices. Would seem like the pedigree some have suggested we look for as a replacement for SK.
genuinely interested if people think the individual manager can make all the difference regardless of squad and budget.On todays viewing St J looked terrible and were fortunate to get a point. Contributed nothing and no creativity. Levein may have a decent reputation but he has a task on in Perth. Another Club suffering to a substantial drop in player quality. A far cry from their Cup Final appearances.
🏆SC Greenock Morton v Motherwell 09/02/2024
in Club Chat
Posted
Talking of an angry man! Maybe you should check your facts.
Like him or loathe him, Imrie's record at Morton is decent. Since taking charge in late 2021 he led them clear of probable relegation and then missed the play offs last season on goal difference. Currently in a play off position on a good unbeaten run. Numerous Manager of the Month awards and a win % in excess of 40. In a League where his budget is way below the majority of his opposition. And the team he coaches has just deservedly beaten a team from the Division above. As I said previously, credit where credit's due.