dennyc
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Posts posted by dennyc
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37 minutes ago, steelboy said:
Courts took Dundee United from the Championship into Europe. He's got a far better record than Kettlewell.
So factually incorrect on both counts. Care to acknowledge that?
Any success he had in Management was in lower league football. It was Ferguson that managed Kelty to SPFL promotion. In the Championship, Courts was in temporary charge of Utd for one game as Mellon had CoVid. They lost
How about his time (4 months) in Hungary? Or do we just ignore that?
The man you hold in such high regard has walked out on one Club and upon his Managerial return he left two others by Mutual Consent within a five month period. That is some CV.
And at least one of your other two suggestions has already refused our approach.
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48 minutes ago, wellfan said:
To address both posts, I don’t know how many times I and others have to say this, but here it is again:
We're in this position because he made an arse of the summer window in terms of strikers. He's the manager and it's on him. That's my view and others can have their view, but if some people want to call me a fud then they've lost the debate.
He resigned Obika knowing fine well that we was an injury risk. Poor recruitment.
He signed Wilkinson, who contributed little and is now gone. Poor recruitment
He signed Shaw, who contributed nothing and is now gone. Poor recruitment.
He signed Biereth, which is his only good bit of business, but it's risky business to end up in the position of having to rely on loanees, and he's now gone.
He signed Bair, who everyone knew had a poor record in front of goal. Poor recruitment.
He put Tierney out on loan and released McKinstry, and didn't replace them, effectively meaning we could only play one style as he settled on having no number 10s or wingers. This may have been a budget decision, however.
I could go on, but there's no point.
The outcome of all of this is that we're 2 days away from our first league game after the window and we currently only have one recognised first-team striker, and that player was signed as a long-term project, who was likely set to be 3rd or 4th choice at that time. We're in the Premiership FFS; this is a ridiculous position to be in.
Yes, he's been good at moving players on, but he wouldn't have to move players on if he didn't make errors of judgement in signing them in the first place. Yes, he's been stung by injuries to Obika, but he should've known that would happen and not signed him again.
All told, perhaps some holding his hands up instead of making the usual excuses wouldn't go amiss. That would be the honesty and ownership that I want. Such behaviour draws respect and suggests an individual is capable of learning from their experiences and mistakes.
Shaw and Wilkinson looked like decent signings and very few, if any, raised questions at the time. Even "those others" you refer to. They were signed based on playing history and the financial market we operate in. Both have moved on as you say, for different reasons. Shaw was nothing like the youngster that featured for Hibs and Wilkinson was unsettled. But were they worth a try? I think they were.
Bair and Obika I tend to agree should not have been signed, but each has shown glimpses that not all is lost. I repeat, I would not have taken a risk on either.
Biereth is the quality of youngster we just cannot afford to sign on a full contract basis. So, when the opportunity of a Loan placement comes up, are we to decline the offer on the basis we just don't like Loans? For a while Biereth was the Messiah and his loan status was not a factor. Did you raise it as an error back then? Also it is perfectly clear to anyone willing to open their eyes that Arsenal did the dirty on us. How do you plan for that? In case you haven't noticed, the bulk of deals done in the January window are on a loan basis, even involving Clubs with a lot more financial resources than we have. But ok, we can just ignore that market and sign lesser players on longer contracts. Bair mark 2 perhaps.
Tierney and McKinstrey were a waste of a much needed wage and had no future at Motherwell. Although they were fan favourites each failed to take any starting opportunities they were given, flattering to deceive in substitute appearances. That's the reality of why they left. Several Managers formed that same opinion, not just Kettlewell. That also applies to others that were moved on.
Kettlewell's signings in this window and his set up against Alloa suggest he is aware of the need for better attacking width. Nicholson often played as a winger for Hearts and Elliott is described as a pacy attacking wing back. Montgomery seemed comfortable going forward and Gent certainly benefited from starting in an advanced position. So, for me, that is a manager recognising where improvement is needed.
So, for now, I hope we stick with him. Season end is the time for his future to be assessed. And no doubt his recent signings will be a factor one way or another.
Not in response to your post alone, but it is clear there are fans out there desperate for Kettlewell to fail and so prove them right..........no matter the implications of that failure. Scrutinising every word to find fault but going quiet when things go well or a signing looks promising. Several players appear to be up against the same barrier. Sad.
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35 minutes ago, wellfan said:
With six days to go, Kettlewell is getting his excuses in already. Tick tock.
Sounds nothing like an excuse, more like a touch of honesty and reality. Which is something fans usually cry out for. A clear and precise outline of our situation. You should be applauding that the Club is actively looking for a striker or two?
That is unless you are in the minority determined to find fault with everything our Manager does or says. Not to say he hasn't made mistakes, but inventing grounds for having a go only detracts from any valid points you make.
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5 hours ago, GazzyB said:
Don't let Kettlewell convince you otherwise. He's a Scottish Baraclough.
Kettlewell did not convince me one way or the other.
My comments were based on what I witnessed for myself. I don't think either Davor or Gent performed that well when they were first introduced (as per the part of my comment you did not quote} but have performed much better after their reintroduction and so deserve their first team place for now.
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3 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:
A real shame. He was very highly rated a year or two back but suffered a bad injury. I believe Liverpool were looking at him. Presumably, his loan with Annan didn't work out.
Aye, a real shame. Liverpool and Leeds offered him terms to join their Academies and Motherwell were happy with what was proposed compensation wise. Went to train with Liverpool for a couple of weeks prior to deciding who to join, but suffered a bad injury whilst down there. Motherwell stuck by him, hoping he could get back to something like his best. It was encouraging when he made the bench last season......maybe featured once? Sadly his time with us has now come to an end. Good luck to the lad.
The damage to his career due to injury at such a young age highlights why it is difficult for youth players to refuse a move when offered attractive terms elsewhere. Nobody knows what is round the corner.
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1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:
I'm getting strong vibes of " Rangers are the Big team I support" from some of the posters on here ie it's all the green uglies fault. At the risk of repeating myself they are both culpable for everything that is wrong in Scottish football.
I live in hope that they and their moronic supports will both feck off to England or some European super league one day and leave the rest of us to enjoy football again
Nothing at all to do with "The big team I support". Trotting out that response is akin to the rabid nonsense that is rolled out from both ends of Glasgow.
It is about the lack of factual reporting by the Media, incompetent refereeing (which this thread is about) coupled with selective use of VAR, and the fact that nobody is prepared to challenge those issues or hold the Authorities to account.
I very much doubt that any Motherwell fan has a soft spot for either Rangers or Celtic, especially if they have attended any matches against either, home or away. Anybody who does not recognise the vile atmosphere they create is either in denial or deaf and blind. Then again, the Motherwell fan in front of me at Easter Road who regularly shouted out "Dirty f****n Bastard" does make me wonder.
I do share your hope for an Old Firm free football environment though. Sadly that is never going to happen even if a European Super League with both in it is established. Our lords and masters would ensure both could field B Teams in the Premiership. I suspect our Board, or any other, would not raise any objections. That seed has already been sown.
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To be clear, I think the fans/officials of Rangers and Celtic are equally obsessed when it comes to conspiracy theories and I also think both Clubs benefit from refereeing decisions as a result.
But I do think MJC has a fair point when he states that Celtic are way ahead of the rest when it comes to manipulating the media and utilising their influence across all aspects of Scottish football.
An example
I keep hearing that the penalty Rangers conceded against Kilmarnock was the first domestic penalty they have conceded this season. Even the BBC headline still reads "Rangers concede first penalty since Jan 2022". That is just not true. Domestically they have conceded 3 penalties this season, and 1 was in a Cup Semi Final where Shankland scored. So it was not a nothing game. Fans too often are happy to accept what the media say without question and this forum is no different. Only one top team in Scotland has not conceded a domestic penalty this season and that is Celtic. Not that you would believe that fact given their recent media comments. And I don't see it reported anywhere in the media that it is 23 league games since Celtic last conceded a penalty. The closest run to that is St Johnstone on 13 games. We are on 3. This during a stretch where Celtic's American full back seems to think he is playing Basketball rather than football. Taylor is not much better. So media reporting and wording is very selective and manipulative. I wonder why?
Regards the Rangers incident. Of course it was not a penalty because of an offside in the immediate build up. Nobody in their right mind would argue any differently. But Rangers are correct in saying that Collum inexplicably decided there was no hand ball offence and then awarded a goal kick. If he had correctly ruled there had been a hand ball, procedures would have kicked in and the offside discovered then and there. So no penalty and an offside free kick awarded instead.
The Authorities elected to ignore Collum's incompetence and midway through the second half announced the offside finding, which appears like an attempt at justification. No acknowledgement of any error. The questions Rangers are asking are why did Collum not award a handball and thereafter follow laid down procedures? I believe they are entitled to pose those questions. The deflection tactics introduced to avoid addressing those issues are insulting and reflect badly on Scottish football.
And that disregard is nothing new. Remember the penalty we were denied against Aberdeen when Lamie's shirt was almost ripped off but the VAR had gone home for the day? Instead of decrying Rangers for demanding answers, fans, Club Officials and especially the Media should be asking the same questions. Only then might we see an improvement and balance in refereeing standards. It won't happen though and the refereeing inconsistency will continue as will the carefully placed media comments which heap more pressure on the Officials to think twice about penalising certain teams.
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5 minutes ago, mfc said:
Spencer started off really well but his performances of late have been a bit up and down,I would rather we had kept him though as overall he's been one of our better players upto now.gent looks like he has found his feet and is a threat going forward, hopefully the plan is to sign an attacking fullback for the other side and not go with o'donnell for the rest of the season.
For me O'Donnell was our best defender yesterday and but for him Hibs could have had the game won in the first 30 minutes. On at least three occasions he was the one making last gasp clearances. And he would have performed far better right side defensively than out of position Spittal. McGinn too, but he is doing fine a bit more central so I get him starting there. First half Hibs tore us apart down that right hand side. I lost count of the number of times the ball was fired across our six yard box with Hibs failing to get on the end of it. Settled down a bit after that when Spittal was pushed further up the pitch. Then again it was from that area that the cross that led to the equaliser came from.
Spencer's distribution in recent games left a lot to be desired with very few crosses getting beyond the first defender. Defensively he can be replaced.
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6 hours ago, GazzyB said:
Gent for me.
Funny that him and Davor have both been great since coming in, changes that were only made out of necessity…
Or that were made when the players were ready.
When Davor first appeared he looked slow and out of his depth. Admittedly only with limited first team game time.
When Gent first appeared he did well going forward providing decent crosses, but was woefully short defensively.
Both players now look much improved in all areas and now deserve their place in the team.
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12 minutes ago, Orinoco said:
Agree I thought Gent was one of our better players. Looked like Spittal. The manager said words were said to Gent after the game. Hopefully it was constructive and not destructive.
From what I saw SK was consoling a distraught Gent at the end of the game, right in front of the away support. And Gent did not react in a way that suggested any harsh words came from the manager.
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38 minutes ago, steelboy said:
He scored in near enough every game.
We had other strong performers but without KVV's goals and all round play we would have been down.
Do you think Kettlewell had any part to play in our survival?
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59 minutes ago, wellfan said:
I measure Kettlewell on this season. It was KVV who saved us last season.
So, again, you give no credit to Kettlewell or any other players for the turn around last season. And let's just ignore the credit KVV gave his fellow players and Manager for his run of goals. And let's just ignore that KVV was one of the players that got us in the mess in the first place.
I like your balance though. Anything the team achieves is down to the players. Anything the team does not achieve is down to the Manager.
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14 hours ago, Jastons said:
Managers get praised when things are going well only natural to expect criticism when things are going shite.
Fair point. Can you remind folk that Kettlewell deserves some praise for yesterday.
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Why can we not just give Kettlewell the credit he deserves for yesterday? We even had the sour grapes "the PLAYERS deserve credit". Clearly a positive for Kettlewell was a step too far for some. Acknowledgement grudgingly given at best. Depressingly I get the sense a few folk even wanted us to lose yesterday, just to justify their assault. I admit I did have doubts when I saw his team selection but he and the players made it work and proved me wrong. Even with Shaw contributing next to nothing, the fact he fielded three forwards created the space that Biereth and Bair took advantage of. That set up was down to Kettlewell and in such a critical game he carried the day. Accept it and hope the upturn in results continues.
I don't know if Kettlewell will survive to next season. Nobody does. But to suggest a new Board would not renew his contract under any circumstances is ridiculous. It is quite clear that even if our January signings work out, we have a decent cup run and secure our top league status, Kettlewell's detractors will still shout loudest....until they get to move on to their next target when he eventually goes. We managed an important victory yesterday and head to Easter Road in a more positive mood. I think that is a good thing but sadly it feels like some don't think that way.
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1 hour ago, GazzyB said:
A bit of a weird question but if I show up with a big Nike carry-on duffel bag will they let me in, or do we have a cloakroom type thing? Got a flight to catch not long after the game.
They let folk with bags from the Club shop so I don't see why there would be an issue. The steward outside the turnstile will probably have a look through it though. Especially given our reputation regards pyros. A quick phone call to the office should clear the way just to be sure. Or give you an option.
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Burrows, with the support of Motherwell, contacted the SPFL requesting that the game be postponed given the weather and hazardous road conditions. Although Motherwell had travelled up this morning and the pitch was playable, all parties felt it was unfair asking both sets of fans to travel. Our lords and masters sat on a decision for hours and only gave their agreement when photographs of the road conditions were placed online.
By not travelling down, County short circuited the process and well done to them for that. Would not surprise me if they receive a yellow card for their cheek.
Boards across Scotland should be asking questions of Doncaster and his pals, but I bet they don't.
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2 hours ago, Kmcalpin said:
I'd hope so. Will probably depend on the precise wording of the agreement. It might only be a percentage of what Celtic make over and above the original fee.
Knowing Celtic it will be as little as possible. They are good at building in massive add-ons when they are sellers.....Frimpong could net them a fortune just like Van Dijk and others did. However when they are the buyers it's a different matter. I guess that's good practice for them but it is galling that they can dictate terms up here. I hope I am wrong but I'm not holding my breath looking for a fantastic payday.
Whereas the Turnbull terms were not revealed, it is public knowledge that Celtic have a 30% add on with Frimpong that could net them around £10m as he looks to be heading to England from Germany for about £50m. Crazy money.
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19 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:
Not sure Ive ever seen or heard Motherwell fans applauding a former player for scoring a goal against us.
Ive seen it before the game has started which I think is absolutely fine as it shows respect for what they did whilst with us.
Ive also seen it when an opposition player shows an outrageous piece of skill or scores a worldy, I also have no issue with that. Sometimes you just need to doff your cap when you've seen something special (depending on who the opponent is obviously).
But this myth that Fir Park is full of "Happy Clappers" who really dont give a shit about the club is a load of absolute bollocks imho.
Well said. Spot on.
Vigurs is the classic example. Took us for a ride and well rid.. But if I recall correctly his goal was a volley following a corner to the edge of the box. An amazing piece of skill. So some folk who can appreciate such skill did applaud. Does not mean the goal did not hurt them or that they betrayed the Club. I didn't applaud by the way, but I did go "Wow!"
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20 hours ago, MJC said:
Applauding the team off the park is something I can understand to be fair, especially if we’ve given everything but lost because we weren’t good enough. I don’t like it personally but I get it.
It’s the ones who seem to value certain ex players more than the club itself that rip my knitting. It’s as if they view the likes of McFadden, Moult, the majority of the ‘91 team etc as “their pals”. Each to their own of course but I just can’t understand why any supporter of the club would hold certain players, current or former, in higher regard than the club itself. And I say that as someone who loves the ‘91 team (Tom Boyd apart) and views Faddy and Moult as two of the best players ever to play with the club, certainly two of my all time favourites in our colours.
Why does applauding a player who has served the Club well suggest to you they are placing that player above the Club? That is just out and out nonsense. it is showing respect to someone who brought them enjoyment in our colours. I have not met one fan who would put an opposition player above the interest of Motherwell FC. To suggest someone who does applaud is letting the Club down is as disrespectful to them as you say they are being to the Club
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5 minutes ago, Big Wispy Flossy said:
What’s the tipping point for you? Not trying to be obtuse but we are probably on the worst run of results in my 40 years plus supporting Motherwell. He’s traded away all our options to play a different way. To go in a season with not one senior winger was incredibly naive. Furthermore the word salad pish he was spouting to the media after the game was a sacking offence in itself. Essentially saying we shouldn’t have been trying to play the ball out from the back (we shouldn’t have btw) but he was actually encouraging it
The dilemma for me is that we are having the worst run points wise I can recall, even in comparison to the play off year where we trounced Rangers. I've deleted Kampman and Hynd from my memory banks. But performances during this spell are far from the worst I have seen, and are not as hard a watch as games under Hammell and Alexander were towards the end. Despite what some like to promote on here, the players have not downed tools, appear as united as they can be under the circumstances and are still with Kettlewell. Also off field factors outside Kettlewell's control are impacting his ability to turn things round.
On the other hand, his transfer dealings have been poor although here again restraints placed upon him limit the quality of player he can recruit. Also looking to his team selection at Dingwall and his substitutions in the past couple of months suggest to me that he his running out of ideas given the resources available.
So, could anyone else who would be willing or available to come to our Club do any better given the circumstances? I just don't know to be honest but I have my doubts. Anybody who is available has likely failed elsewhere or been out of the game for a while. I don't think the likes of Murray at Raith Rovers would jump ship for us at this time. Those screaming for Kettlewell to go have either not come up with a realistic solution or have copped out of making a suggestion, even though that would add to the discussion taking place on a fan forum.
All in all I am about 55/45 for staying with Kettlewell for now which I think is possibly how a lot of fans feel. What we do not know is whether the Club and Kettlewell have had discussions regards the transfer window and if plans are in place. Then again we also don't know for sure what funds are available for recruitment or possibly changing the Management team.
I do think a loss to Livi will see him go as this run cannot be allowed to drift on. But I'm far from convinced it will make any difference. I guess I will just have to trust our Board, which in itself does not give me any comfort
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2 hours ago, steelboy said:
We've reported having millions in the bank so bringing in two or three should be possible.
The May 2022 Accounts did say we had around £4m is cash Reserves. That after incurring a £1m loss compared to a £3m profit the season before (Exceptional transfer and performance income perhaps?). So yes you would hope a good proportion of that kitty is still available. But those 2022 Accounts did suggest we had moved into a loss making position.
Since those Accounts were released a significant amount has been spent on Stadium improvements/repairs, pitch upgrades, employee/manager contract pay offs, player recruitment (last January panic buying!) and ever increasing running costs. Not all of those outgoings would have been forseen and budgeted for. Allied to reduced income from poorer onfield performance. The financial situation revealed when the May 2023 Accounts are issued may confirm we still have millions in the Bank. I hope we do but I have my doubts.
Then we have these words from the statement issued by the Club when the Board departures were announced.
“It has become very clear over the last few years that for the club to operate on a sustainable basis, provide the manager with a competitive player budget, meet the vastly increased cost of our other activities including having a successful Woman’s Team and maintaining a fit for purpose Stadium, Training Ground and Academy facility, that it will require significant investment; funding on a similar scale to that received by many others in the SPFL."
That does not sound like a minimal shortfall to me. Bottom line. If we are not operating on a sustainable basis, then those funds held in reserve will quickly reduce. Let's see what the 2023 Accounts reveal. Also, with no access to Loan funds, it is essential that we maintain some level of funds in reserve to cover unforeseen events. A hopefully never required safety net.
I do hope you are correct though and significant funds are available in January. We certainly need a decent transfer window.
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5 hours ago, David said:
The issue for me is that your first paragraph makes perfect sense, yet the second goes on to support the idea that we continue doing the same thing that we've always done.
If we constantly say "well, aye, we do need to get a proper handle on recruitment and implement a more technical approach, but the priority right now is getting bodies in the door to improve our current situation" we'll never get out of the bit, so to speak.
I know it likely got lost in the vast amount of text I tend to post, but I already detailed how it wouldn't really require vast amounts of money to make the changes we need to recruitment. Well, the changes I think we need anyway.
Oh, I'm not suggesting we continue to do the same thing. Far from it. Recruitment and structure wise, I think it is quite clear I am disappointed with how we have performed and it needs to change for the better. But to my reading some on here are getting hung up on history and not addressing the present. We've signed Josh Morris, Theo Bair etc and that was poor. But that is done we need to let that go, learn, adjust our approach and sort the present. On and off the pitch.
My concern is that because of the previous direction, we are not in a good position to address the current deficiencies on the pitch. My question to Steelboy was to ask him how we are to fund the player recruitment everybody agrees is required. It is a valid question. I am not convinced funds are available for what we require......hopefully I am wrong in that.....and I have heard nothing from the Club this season that suggests otherwise. The only practical solution I can come up with is to sell Kelly and Miller, if that is even possible looking to injury and form. Dickie's panic press release was pretty vague, waffle in fact.
You have come up with several innovative, workable proposals which I wish the Club would get in touch with you to discuss. And it may be that those suggestions could be implemented at minimal cost. Certainly worth exploring as soon as possible.
But as for player recruitment, how do we fund actual player purchases in January whilst we are burdened with existing contracts and little income? It is ok saying bring in a striker, a midfielder, wingers but how to we do that....urgently? Other changes hopefully will be implemented, but our form and league position makes on field performance the priority. On and off field go hand in hand I agree but we desperately need to rescue our season in the here and now..
And keep on typing those essays. I enjoy reading a lot of the sense you bring to the table. You clearly care about our Club and looking for solutions.
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6 minutes ago, steelboy said:
We could afford Sean Goss, KVV, Hartley, Aldred on previous lower turnovers and overall wage spends.
We need to stop spending money on poor players and implement a way of assessing players by stats/data so that it just doesn't come down to whether Kettlewell's in the kind of mood where he'll talk utter pish for 25 minutes then decide to hang on hat on Theo Bair for two years.
We re-signed Barry Maguire when putting sentiment aside it was obvious he wasn't good enough to play midfield in our league. We should have systems in place to make sure that can't happen again. Josh Morris was never going to perform for us and is now out of football but we were somehow building around him. All these telegraphed mistakes are exactly what is holding us back.
Rectifying our current situation is not about how we recruited well or or badly in the past. Yes, recruitment and decision making has been terrible at times and has likely cost us thousands. So that must be addressed before any more resources are wasted. I agree.
But the now is about how we afford new players at this moment in time. To improve our current situation So that is my concern. You suggest numerous positions that require improvement but seem to assume finance is not an issue.
Despite the BBC report regarding the clarification statement, looking at what Dickie actually said makes sufficient funding less certain to my mind. Hopefully I am wrong and worrying for no reason. All he really needed to say was "Yes", rather than qualifying his response with imagine, some and if.
BBC
Asked if boss Stuart Kettlewell would be able to make additions to his squad next month, Dickie replied: "I would imagine there will be some money available for the manager if that's his decision."
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8 hours ago, steelboy said:
The current Hibs manager was interviewed on the shortlist when Hammell got the job. Alexander took the job with decent experience. We can get a manager who's not a youth coach.
Scouting/recruitment is different but there's no reason to stick with someone who hasn't delivered. Whoever suggested Wilkinson should be out the door, I'm sure there would be plenty of people who would want the job.
My question was about how you would fund the recruitment of the players to fill the positions you quoted. I agree we need upgrades but cannot see how we find the funds required.
St Johnstone v Motherwell 27/01/2024
in Club Chat
Posted
I like the way you ignore the other parts of Court's history that I highlighted. Any thoughts on that aspect? Personally I would prefer a Manager who isn't likely to chuck it so readily.
Also very "selective" in your use of stats. A quick check suggests Courts had a 38% win rate in total at Utd whereas Kettlewell is sitting at 41%. I guess we must be looking at different records. Or. as you say, maybe beating bottom six teams should be discounted. Europe I'll concede although according to a few on here that is nothing to celebrate and only hurts our League campaign.