star sail
-
Posts
1,128 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
25
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by star sail
-
-
2 hours ago, Andy H said:
No one being negative tonight?
I don’t want to be negative or borrow worry but I am concerned that Man Utd might poach Hammell for the soon to be vacated Man Utd job?
-
1
-
-
Well, Well, (Super) Well who would have thought it!! What a result.
Third place . Europe beckons!!! What could possibly go wrong.
Congratulations Stevie Hammell. Absolutely brilliant!!
-
1
-
-
58 minutes ago, dennyc said:
Albeit everyone is broadly supportive of Hammell, the Board have faced criticism from several on here. Noteworthy that those shouting loudest have had an axe to grind with the Board (and Burrows in particular) for some considerable time. Way before the decline since last December. So the past few weeks must have been orgasmic for them. More fuel to the fire and all that. Others have expressed concern but in a much more supportive, constructive manner. As you would expect on a fans' forum. But can you imagine the seethe from that first group if Hammell had been appointed within hours of Alexander leaving?
From memory Burrows and the Board have been criticised for appointing Robinson, sacking Robinson, appointing Alexander, sacking Alexander, sacking Alexander to soon, being slow to ditch Alexander, appointing Hammell, not appointing Hammell immediately, and not taking enough time before appointing Hammell.
My view is that the Board have acted promptly enough whilst taking the time to assess the merits of those interested in the position. I don't think the likes of Pep and Jurgen expressed an interest so perhaps some on here need a dose of realism. Having considered all the information available to them the Board decided to appoint Hammell, That's good enough for me and for anyone to question their integrity in doing so is farcical. For what it's worth I would have preferred Valakari but he too would have been a risk, although for different reasons.
As for integrating different areas within the Club, youth in particular, I believe that set up existed successfully when Craigen was in charge of youth development. A system that was responsible for Turnbull, Hastie, Scott etc etc breaking into the first team and earning the Club millions. Within that system others were poached by Clubs such as Leeds, Norwich and Rangers. But again resulting in much needed income. Latterly under Robinson..... but more so under Alexander....., I believe that structure was dismissed and I wonder how much contact Alexander actually had with our younger players and Hammell/Kerr. Perhaps CoVid had a part to play. Alexander clearly preferred to bring in his own team of like minded coaches and preferred to recruit senior players he had previously worked with and trusted. That approach continued into this season despite its limitations as evidenced by our style of play and poor results in 2022. If Hammell and the Board believe a return to that earlier set up will help to secure our future, put a more attractive product on the pitch, and provide a better balance of experience and raw talent, then more power to them. Seems to me the people in charge are doing what they believe is best for Motherwell FC.
44 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:They surely had to at least see who was available before appointing Hammell - given his lack of experience - so I'd cut them some slack on that. I hope he wasn't given the job out of necessity, but either way, we needed a manager sooner rather than later, as you say. And either way, we all support him and hope it works out, because it's obvious he cares about the club as well as his own career.
I agree with much of what you both say. The board are damned if they do damned if they don’t. Being a board member or a manager of a team like Motherwell presents significant challenges and it is so easy to be an anonymous armchair critic.
I think Alan Burrows in particular has been a huge positive for the club over the last few years and the Board have done a remarkable job of picking the right man at the right time over the last 15 years to ensure our top flight status. The naysayers criticising manager after manger does get wearing after a while.
Alexander is actually the first manager since Maurice Malpas that I completely lost faith in. For me the Sligo result and performance was unacceptable.
I just get a sense this time that this is the most crucial of appointments and the most challenging to date. I would be delighted and impressed if they have called this one correctly. There is no doubt that it is a very tough call to make. If there is a man that I would want to be successful, Stevie Hammell is the man but I do have the fear for him. He has a really tough task ahead of him.
-
7
-
-
7 minutes ago, bobbybingo said:
If no one decent was interested in the job, it's not really a risk, it's a necessity. Unless they deliberately ignored someone they considered more capable.
I suppose the point I was making is that if they had absolute confidence in Hammell they should have given him the job two weeks ago. For player recruitment alone, two weeks is a long time. Appointing someone out of necessity is not what you might want and as a by- product brings the risk of failure. I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive.
Nobody is arguing that they deliberately ignored somebody they considered more capable.
-
3 hours ago, Onthefringes said:
Not putting each post under scrutiny but, I’m not reading anything like that
Agreed. I think most if not all of those that have voiced concern have also expressed a wish that he succeed.
Having had 24 hours to digest the news, I have to admit that I can’t help but feel a little underwhelmed.
For me, if Hammell is the man then why was he not the man two weeks ago? He has been at the club a long time. The board will know his strengths. If integrating youth development into the first team is the way forward, good, but that seems to be a decision they have stumbled upon in the last few days rather than one that is part of an ongoing process.
I do worry that they have been surprised by the lack of interest in the job and that Hammell is the fall back option. It is most certainly a risk given his lack of first team management experience.
Where I think we are all agreed, is that we do wish him all the very best and if his appointment is successful I don’t think there is a single Motherwell fan that would begrudge him that success. I think what has been voiced is a concern that a great servant to the club may have inadvertently been thrown to the lions and that a reputation built over many successful years be tarnished.
-
Best wishes to Stevie Hammell. It will be interesting to see how much patience his long service buys him with the support if he does not get off to a flying start. Interesting as well to see who he signs to strengthen the squad.
I wish him good luck. I think he might need it because he has a mighty job on his hands.
-
9 hours ago, Wishielad said:
Drove past Fir Park, early this evening and believe I saw Leeann Dempster's car. Could it be Owen Coyle on shortlist. Hard to believe as his buddy Willie Haughey's bankrolling Queens Park, so they'll have more money than us.
I suppose it is possible that she is helping the board with the final selection process. If they were making final decisions last night it would not be unreasonable to imagine that she was involved in that process, particularly if she maintains good relationships within the club.
In recent times she worked with Neil Lennon at Hibs just to add some more baseless uneducated fuel to that fire.
-
7 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:
Two former Sunderland managers recently took jobs in the SPL having failed there. Malky Mackay managed in the English Premier League and is rebuilding his career. So there are managers lije that out there, Lambert the obvious one at the moment. But those appointments don't always work either...
I would be excited by Lambert. I was surprised by the negativity when he was mentioned last week. The fact that he does not appear to be in the frame suggests that we could not afford wage demands.
I would also be excited by Neil Lennon. The chat on him has been fairly polarising today but he has managed at the top level in the game and would be a very interesting consideration. Again I don’t think we could afford his wages even if he was a good fit.
I would have been fairly excited by Malky MacKay and actually if it turns out to be Simo I will be reasonably excited by that too.
I guess I am just easily pleased.
-
1
-
-
5 minutes ago, MelvinBragg said:
I get some people being underwhelmed by the names being mentioned but can't actually think of candidates that wouldn't underwhelm some of us. There is no perfect candidate, not one likely to apply for our job anyway. Unless there's someone I'm missing..?
Healy and Valakari have both won trophies but are untested in our league. Hammell knows the league hut is inexperienced. Every candidate would have their own weaknesses...
For those underwhelmed by the names put forward, who realistically did youngope we would get?
I thought Mark McGhee was an exciting appointment first time round. A manager who had success in England and who was a fairly big name at the time.
His first six months were fairly sensational. I don’t think that can happen these days. The gulf in pay is so vast between the bigger names in England and the incentives that we could offer that I just could not see a big name manager coming to us to either resurrect a career or see out there days for the love of the game.
Somebody mentioned Neil Warnock somewhat jokingly before. That is the kind of name that would be exciting but it would never happen.
I am not sure that Mark McGhee in his post Wolves days and Neil Warnock now equate but it does seem as if the days of big name managers have passed for teams like us.
-
11 minutes ago, ColinAtherton said:
I accept that but that spell ended in 2014, since then he’s been sacked by Bolton, sacked in strange circumstances by Hibs and sacked by Celtic following a disastrous year.
I’m really frustrated that my comments are being taken to be prejudiced against mental health issues. All I’m saying is that mentality is an important characteristic for a football manager and the fact that Lennon has had issues at Hibs and Celtic should be a concern.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkFair enough. I am sure that you don’t have a prejudice against mental health issues and you have said that you have no problem with his Celtic connection. It is a bold statement to make to write to the club in protest about a potential manager so I think that more than anything was what maybe caused some misunderstanding.
I remembered Leeann Dempster saying that she very much regretted the circumstances surrounding his leaving Hibs. I got the feeling that it was an admission that it was not all Lennon’s fault but I know little to nothing about it.
Bolton were a shambles of a club financially and were very poorly run so again I am not sure if it a true reflection of his management abilities.
He may not even be in the running so let’s not waste any more of a sunny Scottish afternoon arguing about it.
-
1
-
-
10 minutes ago, Spiderpig said:
What a feckin ridiculous comment to make on someone's mental health issues, so now he's wild, aggressive, unstable and out of control ffs.
Supporting Mental health issues is something Motherwell as a club are very strong on and something our fans should be proud of irrespective of who it is.
Well said.
-
11 minutes ago, ColinAtherton said:
My objection is nothing to do with his links to Celtic. I think he’s a terrible manager. He took over a Celtic side build by Brendan Rodgers that was so strong and he systematically broke it to pieces over a couple of seasons. The gap between the side he inherited and the Rangers side of that time was massive, they could have won 15+ in a row. He dismantled them. His signings (other than Turnbull) were atrocious (Barkas, Ajeti, Duffy, Klimala, Bolingoli etc.). He also completely poisoned the dressing room and eroded the significant credibility he’d build up with their fans. Finally, the guy had a full on breakdown when he left Celtic, he’s unstable and he presents himself in such a wild, aggressive, out of control manner.
I honestly think he’s the worst possible candidate for the job.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYou have mentioned nothing of a very successful first spell.
I think as a person he has his demons. He has talked about battles with depression and he did indeed have a hard time after his second spell at Celtic.
The board of Motherwell would have to decide which version of Neil Lennon we would be getting. On form and in a good mental frame of mind he would be a coup for our club. I suppose there is always the possibility of a man that could self implode but this is life.
I don’t doubt that there would be an element of risk attached. All the names mentioned have risk attached for different reasons. If we were to accept that Neil Lennon was the biggest risk, he may also produce the biggest reward.
I must be as bigoted as the next man however because the mere suggestion of a Barry Ferguson/ Bob Malcolm dream team made me want to be sick!
For what it is worth I am tending towards Simo Valakari. A young manager with a love for the club that has proved himself in Finland. That he has no association with Rangers or Celtic also does have it’s merits.
With Neil Lennon it would never be boring good or bad. Not long before we will know.
-
1 hour ago, ColinAtherton said:
There are rumours that Neil Lennon is in the running to be the next gaffer. Personally I think he is the worst possible candidate imaginable. I’ve seen some similar sentiment of Twitter. I have sent an email to the Well Society at (well.society@motherwellfc.co.uk) to ask they pass my objection to his possible appointment. I don’t imagine this will accomplish very much but I really can’t bare the thought of Lennon at our clubs.
I am not looking to encourage anyone else to follow suit but if you feel as compelled as I do then it might help avoid such a horrible appointment.
Col
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhat are your objections? I understand that he can be an abrasive character but if he had the skill set to turn the team around and bring a bit of excitement football back to Firpark, would that not be a good thing?
My worry in these situations is that an ex Celtic man would be less palatable to small sections of our support than say a Terry Butcher ( a man that was also fairly abrasive in his time) or a Stuart McCall.
I always defend the club to Celtic fans in particular who make the claim that we are a mini Rangers. Our support is generally mixed and it is a source of pride to me that we don’t carry the religious baggage of either of the OF teams. Appointing a polarising character like Lennon would underline all the more that we are a club that is not shackled by religious and political prejudice.
It is not a reason to appoint him but I don’t think his football history should be a reason not to.
-
1
-
-
Lennon would be a great option for the club. I don’t think it is possible to successfully manage players like Scott Brown if you are a dud.
If Craigan rates him and thinks he would be a coup for the club, I would go with that endorsement. I have not heard Craigan speak so positively about a manager since Jim Gannon.
Lennon gave Celtic some great European nights against bigger teams with better resources, eg Barcelona so he can motivate a team when they are underdogs.
-
1 hour ago, dennyc said:
Again, it is not the fact Alexander dropped O'Donnell to the bench. That was justified in most folks eyes but perplexing when others were just as poor but retained their place regardless. So let's get that straight.
I have no axe to grind here. I like O’ Donnell as a player and he seems like a decent guy. I was very proud of his achievements in the Euro’s and would love to see him regain his form. I am not protecting GA either. The Sligo result is one of the poorest in the clubs history and he had to go.
I would say though that it is splitting hairs to argue that the issue is not that he was dropped to the bench but that he was not reinstated. Mugabi’s confidence was clearly affected by the Hibs sending off. Up until that point I don’t think anybody would have argued with Mugabi’s inclusion. If he continued to show well in training is it not possible that GA stuck with him so as not too shatter his confidence completely? Maybe, maybe not.
The point is that we have no idea what goes on behind the scenes. Shoehorning conclusions into a situation because it suits a particular rhetoric is all well and good but it does not make it fact. The other point I was making is that as a group Motherwell fans should be the very last people to criticise when it comes to poor treatment and a lack of backing for Stephen O Donnell.
-
O’Donnell is a really strange one with our own support and also the Scotland support in general. I had a conversation with a Celtic fan during the Euros where he stated that SOD should be nowhere near the Scotland Team and that Patterson should be playing. When I asked him if he had seen Patterson play he answered no. That was a Celtic fan backing a Rangers player he had never seen play.
Stranger still, there were Motherwell fans arguing the same thing. At a time when we should have been proud to see a Motherwell player in a Scotland shirt, we seemed determined as a support to undermine our Captain.
Having not backed him in a Scotland shirt and having been almost vitriolic in their criticism of his performances in a Well shirt it is all the stranger that SOD being dropped from the starting 11 is now used as proof positive of Graham Alexander’s poor man management skills.
If SOD has suffered a crisis of confidence that has impacted his form in recent months there is a very obvious reason for it that could have nothing to do with Graham Alexander.
The beauty of being a football fan is that we get to absolve ourselves of all responsibility, no matter how badly we behave at times, whilst pointing the finger at anybody and everybody we whimsically wish to blame instead.
-
1
-
-
I don’t know if Hammell is the man for the job or not but what today has shown me is the short term, reactionary thinking that is all too prevalent in football.
Last week Hammell was the man for the job ( with some) because we won. This week he is not because we lost. What if Collum had awarded one or both of the penalties yesterday and Motherwell had won the game? Would Hammell get the job on the basis of six points from two games despite the fact that it is fine margins ( a decision from a referee etc) that often win and lose these games?
The club will know the qualities and abilities of Stevie Hammell and that will not have changed regardless of the results both this week and last.
My suspicion is that the club don’t see him as being ready just yet. If they did they would have given him the job before the St Mirren game. I think they will consider him as an able assistant very much like Lasley.
In many ways the results of the last two games are irrelevant.
As Spit it Out has just said above Malky MacKay is the best we could hope for. I can’t see that happening sadly.
-
4 hours ago, MJC_mkII said:
I think it’s too soon for him and not the right circumstances for him to get the job just now.
However if he did get the gig then I don’t think I’d ever want to see a Motherwell manager succeed more than him. He’s a club legend and a genuinely good guy.
Agreed. I am sure everybody would wish him the very best but it would be a horrible thing to watch the support turn on him if results went against him.
If football clubs were really serious about youth development his current role is one that should be highly paid and highly valued. Maybe not as highly paid as first team manager because of the responsibility involved but it should be a prestigious position held by a first rate coach. I think the point I am making is that if this is not the time for him to take the top job he should be nurtured and rewarded for his current role and backed all the more to make youth development front and centre of the clubs philosophy.
-
A Herald article this morning with Paul Lambert with a couple of quotes from him. Speaks very highly of the club and definitely implies that he would be open to an offer.
I think he would be a great option if we could afford him.
-
1 hour ago, Spiderpig said:
If he had never played for us, would Lambert be getting a mention I think not, the same applies to Valakari , the only ex player who might have been worth a shout this time is Van der gaag if he had been available.
I think Van Der Gaag was the one that got away when we appointed Baraclough. He was the fans favourite at the time and his career path since suggests he is a highly regarded coach. Sadly that ship has sailed.
I think the fact that potential candidates are former players does have some importance. For one thing they know the club so will have realistic expectations of what to expect. Secondly they will have connections within the club that may be beneficial.
I have always been a big fan of Paul Lambert. He was a great player and captain. Hard working, tough with vast amounts of experience. I think he would be a great appointment. My memory however is that he left Motherwell under a bit of a cloud? Did he not fall out with Tommy McLean over contract negotiations?
Valakari is a manager with good experience who has proved he can be successful at the clubs he has been with. Again I would be happy with this. My reservation is that Harri Kampman struggled to make the step from managing in Finnish football. Would history repeat itself in that regard?
Anybody thinking that these names are not worthy of our great club need to consider that we lost comfortably to an Irish side last week and are far from a football superpower.
Malky Mackay would be my first choice however even with the baggage that comes with him. I can’t see him moving from RC to us however unless it is was for purely geographical reasons.
-
1
-
-
2 hours ago, David said:
Something I've always wondered about when I read about situations like this, is what kind of effect it has on future player and manager recruitment?
I mean, for most players and managers this is simply their job. Very few are plying their trade for a club they have an emotional attachment to. Also, football players and managers talk to each other. It's a relatively small industry.
If you were a manager who had a few options to get back into the game, or to even move up a few levels, would something like this play a part? We've read often enough about how players and managers will pick up the phone to speak to people who know about the club, ex-managers and so forth before they take the job. Alexander reportedly spent a bit of time chatting with Robinson before accepting the position.
What will Alexander tell a potential manager if they ask him about his time here? Very well-run club with some great backroom staff and a decent squad, but a fanbase that will hurl abuse at you on the regular if things turn?
If I was a player from down south with a few options including Motherwell, i'd be looking at Kelly's comments and the situation with the manager and be thinking "do I want to subject my family, my parents, my kids to reading abuse directed at me and my team mates on Twitter or social media any time we don't play well or lose? Or even worse, have them sitting in the main stand to watch me play only to see grown adults hanging over the side of the stadium to hurl abuse as we leave the field?"
And I know that some people will say "well, you're a footballer, you're in a privileged position, you make a lot of money, just man up and accept it" but no one wants to work in a somewhat toxic workplace, do they? Especially if they have options.
If any one of us on here had a few different job offers and one of them was known in the industry for being hard work, a difficult environment to work in, would we want to work there?
All I'm saying is, most players we sign usually have a few different options available to them in the form of similar sized clubs down south and even up here. The pull of Motherwell lately has been the chance to kick on and progress your career, but if the reports of negativity start to outweigh the positives, we may find that players we target opt for elsewhere where the atmosphere is less likely to turn.
I'd hate to see us get a reputation in the game as a place where players and managers actively avoid unless they have no other option.
I think the people at the club have worked very hard to make Motherwell a good club to work for and I don’t think that reputation will be tarnished. Alexander himself said how much he enjoyed working with the people at the club. There will be many clubs in both Scotland and England that will be far less supportive to work for. Fans are the same at every club so that is a constant. A new manager should have the confidence in his ability to get the fans on side.
Regarding Alexander himself. Once again he was the right man at the right time for our club. The primary aim for our board is to pick a man that will keep us in the top flight. I have said many times before that it is a minor miracle that we have maintained our top flight status for so long. The board of MFC deserve huge credit for this. I scratch my head when I read the negativity towards Alan Burrows. He does a great job in very difficult circumstances. David I know from reading the threads that you are a defender of the club and board so quoting you here is not to counter your opinions.
Alexanders stats are impressive. He was an honest man doing an honest job and deserves our thanks. He was never going to produce fireworks. His time at Salford told us this. It will be interesting to see in a years time if we regret letting him go in the way Salford did.
Ultimately though the Sligo result was really poor and he had to go. I do wonder however if he was the problem or if indeed Scottish Football is now so bad we should not be surprised by the result. Sadly I think the latter may be true.
I remember a debate raging on here a few years back about not reading anything into pre season results. For me when a Full time professional team is struggling to beat the likes of Gateshead, even if it is pre-season, the warning bells should be ringing.
Scottish Managers, pundits and players have been making excuses for over a decade now as to why we are so poor when we step out of Scotland. Sadly the facts don’t lie.
All the best to GA. Hope he has a long a successful management career.
-
2
-
-
1 hour ago, MJC_mkII said:
If we are seriously considering bringing Robinson back then there is no hope for Burrows and this board. An absolutely ridiculous, short sighted backward looking approach.
Surely to Christ this cannot happen?
That Daily Record article has three or four spelling and grammatical mistakes. If they can’t even spellcheck the English, I doubt that they will have spent any time investigating the facts. Click bait. Beauty is, we all click so it works.
-
Malky MacKay would be the most experienced and most successful manager we could hope for but there would be major barriers to overcome to appoint him. Would he fit the club ethos given his history?
I suspect compensation would be a major issue and is Motherwell a step up from RC these days?
He would have the Craig Brown quality of steadying the ship and may actually be able to take the team forward. Would be a major risk from a PR perspective.
-
12 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:
If you think we have a decent squad then we have traced the root of your delusion.
I'll judge Alexander on our league performances. If we have a poor opening round of matches he'll be under a lot of pressure.
I'm not judging him on these European matches where facts show we are the minnows while our support adopts a delusion based assumption of superiority.
We had exactly the same situation last season against Airdrie.
And yet you slaughtered Robinson for better results and performances?
I have generally supported managers Gannon/ Baraclough/ Robinson but this guy has to go for no other reason than that he thinks we are the better team every time we lose. There is absolutely no excuses and no place to hide with this result.
2022/23 ins & outs discussion
in Club Chat
Posted
Moult is only 30 so, if fit, would have a few good years left. If he passed a thorough medical and was given the opportunity to get match fit over a couple of months, who is to say that he could not recapture the form of old. I think a player's environment had a big part to play with some players, particularly strikers.
An injury free Moult would be well worth the risk.