star sail
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Posts posted by star sail
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8 minutes ago, Shaka said:
I agree it was never a penalty, but do you know how it definately wouldnt have been given? Hmmm maybe if Mugabi hadnt dove in and looked like he clipped Erwin!! What was happening if he just stood? Absolutely NOTHING! Even Stevie Wonder can see Madden needs absolutely no excuse to penalize us in the box, so why is he diving in.... AGAIN?!
As I said in other posts, I wouldnt even mind if today was a 1 off, but last week the second goal, a simple clearance for even a pub league centre half, but he rashly and unexplicably tries to swipe at a ball 5 feet in the air with his foot, made a cunt of it and 5 seconds later the ball is in the net. And how many penalties has he given this season, 4? 5?
Not even exaggerating, literally every single time he plays he makes a major fuck up that causes a goal. When we are unable to score goals ourselves, that is suicide!
Shaka, I often think that much of what you say makes a lot of sense but the passion with which you say it detracts sometimes from what can be good points.
Mugabi is far from perfect, a raw talent I think is what you could call it but there is a player in there if he could iron out the mistakes.
I get the frustration. Been there myself shouting and bawling in the stands but at some point you have to cut the players a break.
Mugabi can’t be blamed today for past mistakes. Calling him a c**t is in my opinion a step to far.
I think now is a good time to let these boys prove themselves and let the new manager either drop them or turn them into better players.
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I cannot understand the desperation from a small minority of or fans to criticise and disparage the club at every single opportunity.
Robinson, Burrows, Mugabi, Grimshaw, the boy Whyte.
That was never a penalty in a million years and yet we have posters like Shaka throwing all sorts of insults at Mugabi.
It is the strangest thing! Totally bizarre.Opposition fans would not be so critical of our club and players.
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26 minutes ago, Bert the Sailor said:
It would appear so. But Mugabi was on the pitch so it gave Madden a decision to make apparently.
Reminds me of poor Kipre when Craig Thompson was the referee.
Soon as big Cedric put a foot on the pitch Thompson was reaching for the red card.
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2 hours ago, Kmac said:
I would have perhaps considered a model of senior manager moving to director of football in the summer or installed someone until the end of season.
It is interesting to read your thoughts and you have clearly given it some consideration but I think the fact that you have not given a name to OntheFringes question shows the difficulty of finding the type of manager you describe. Let's say we could have Derek McInness from Aberdeen tomorrow. Would that guarantee our survival this season? Would he have 100% support from our fans? Of course it is a mute point. We could not afford McInness even if he was available.
I think your argument falls down on the basis that your start point suggests an unrealistic representation of MFC's position in the footballing world.
Firstly we are only an established SPFL club because of a lot of hardwork, good decision making and a little luck over the last 20-25 years. We have absolutely no birthright to being a top 12 team as the likes of Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd and Rangers have proved. The fact that we have maintained our top flight status for so long is something of a miracle. It is a reflection of historical success rather than a snapshot of present reality.
Secondly, an experienced manager with a good track record will be outwith the clubs financial reach. There is a reason why names like Gordon Strachan and Martin O Neill do not get mentioned even in fantastical bookies lists. They would not be tempted to even get out their bed for the money we could offer them.
Thirdly, experienced proven players are priced out of our range by the crazy nature of football transfers these days. Adam Rooney was mentioned above as a Salford player. I don't think we could afford to pay a months salary for a player like that. Even if we could persuade him, could his arrival guarantee goals?
I have some sympathy with the points you make and would like to agree with much of them . I would love to think that we could tempt more exotic names to the club. However, the truth is as a club we have to constantly think outside the box to survive. That brings risk both with players and managers. I think Graham Alexander is about the best we can do given all these constraints. I think in fact that Alexander may prove to be a good appointment constraints or not.
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The interview is very interesting. Makes reference to possible divisions in the dress room but most importantly says that there is no lack of ability in the team.
Talk is cheap but it certainly inspires confidence when the manager is articulate and says all the things a fan would want to hear.
Plenty of reason for real optimism and I would not be surprised if we got a big response from the players on Saturday.
I was really disappointed to see Robinson go but now the reset button has been pressed I am feeling excited and optimistic again.
The King is dead. Long live the King!!
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3 minutes ago, steelboy said:
This is a good appointment, he should freshen things up and raise standards.
Interested in why you think that Steelboy?
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Doing a little reading on GA and the Salford fans seem to think that he was a decent enough guy who's teams did not play particularly attack minded football. His home record was relatively poor apparantly (away form was good) and he had a natural tendency to be defensive minded in his approach. A suggestion that he did not get the most out of a fairly expensive squad.
Also listened to his last couple of post match interviews with Salford and it sounded not dissimilar to Robinson latterly. Complaints of players not doing the basics properly (I think Robinson term was the right to play football) and poor decision making.
Having said that, there was no character assassinations suggesting he was a total dud. If anything most fans wished him well and thought he might shine at a club that would be a better fit. Will we be that better fit? Time will tell. If he is to be our new man I wish him all the very best
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It is a tough decision for the club. I don't have any real sense of excitement for the candidates in contention. I can't help but feel that we will not improve on what we had before so there is not a sense for me of a bright new dawn.
I think on balance Tommy Wright would be my preferred candidate. If he could do anything like Craig Brown did the last time we needed a wise old head to steady the ship then I would be delighted.
We need a streetwise element to our team and TW would be the man to bring it. Marry that to a fair bit of ability(Campbell, Long, Gallagher O'Hara, O`Donnell) and we may have a bright new dawn after all.
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Scott Mullen on BBC Sport Scotland saying four candidates including Lasley will be interviewed in the he next two days with the new man being in the dugout by the weekend.
Lasley and 3 others so who are the three?
Sorry, don't know how to post the link from the BBC.
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1 hour ago, GazzyB said:
As one of Robbo's biggest fans that was quite a tough read.
A man who gave his absolute all to this club. Some of the abuse he took on here from certain individuals was/is shameful.
I agree with this 100%. One of the downsides to the Internet age is that people can hide behind forums and post anonymously with little to no repercussions or consequence.
It gives a voice to a minority that can then influence a mood or sporting landscape more than the reality reflects.
When you actually look at the brief summary of Robinsons achievements, posted by the club itself, it his hard to marry the reality with the criticism ( and on rare occasions abuse) that has been a feature on this forum.
Two Cup Finals, a 3rd place finish, European football, a strong financial balance sheet. Hold you head high SR.
It would be interesting to look under a microscope at the daily business of some of the vocal anonymous critics and see if they too could hold their head high.
This is a culture that is not going to go away and any manager good or bad will have a 2-3 year shelf life.
I think we will look back on Robinson's time as some of the better in Motherwell's history.
The managers change. The critics are ever present.
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1 hour ago, mfc said:
I think we're in need of experience to come in and hopefully steady the ship,tin hat on time,I would maybe favour mcleish over tommy wright.
Would never want to see McLeish anywhere near our club again.
Talk about a manager wasting money on transfers, there is your man.
A media darling whose reputation far outstripped his ability. Ruined a decent Motherwell team, and was heading the same way with Hibs. There was horror stories of player indiscipline at Rangers and yet he managed to maintain a good reputation in the Scottish game. His second spell as Scotland manager I think is a fair reflection of his capability.
I would take his Aberdeen playing partner Strachan over McLeish any day of the week.
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4 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:
Craig Brown was an excellent appointment. And for me he essentially set the template for the success McCall had. When McCall had to come up with his own ideas I think he was found lacking a bit.
However in that period we were losing money hand over fist. We don't have the monies (or rather the facilities for debt) to do what we did back then.
With all due respect to Robinson I think he was pretty basic tactically and was a product of lower league football at Bournemouth and Luton in the 1990s and 2000s. We should be looking for a more astute type of coach who's not tainted by a background in physical, long ball, minimum technique style football.
We need a bit of forward vision at the club, personally as a long term fan I've been feeling deflated recently about our club. I'm looking for something to buy into rather than just watch short term 'get a result' (and often not getting it) kind of football.
Right now we are moribund.
What makes you think Craig Brown was an excellent appointment? I don't disagree that he was the right man at the time to steady the ship but from memory we were 5th when he started and 5th when he left. I remember a good few thumping at the hands of Celtic on the way through as well and his brand of football was never scintillating (6-6 v Hibs apart) and I don't remember him having a forward thinking vision. Was it not Gannon that signed the players that Craig Brown worked with? He was a steady pair of hands. Maybe that alone made him an excellent appointment at the time?
What interests me about the comment is that Scottish managers just seem to get a fairer, more measured evaluation from our support generally without much more to show for their efforts.
I am never a fan of the clamour for ex players but I did feel we missed the boat on Van der Gaag at the time Baraclough was appointed.
He may not even look in our direction but would be the kind of appointment that would spark my enthusiasm once more and he has had success in Holland and Portugal.
That apart, a Brownesque appointment like Tommy Wright might be the safe option that could keep us in the league. Pragmatic if not ultimately hugely inspiring.
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24 minutes ago, Shaka said:
I want to add my reasoning to the debate here. I know Im tagged as a boo boy as well, but I at least want to show the reasons my opinions are the way they are. Motherwell are the 6th biggest club in the country, historically and points wise. That, and the league quality being utter shite, I feel finishing around 6th / 7th should be our level. With that being said,
In Robbos first season, we finished 7th and made 2 cup finals. An undoubted success! We got pumped in both finals but made a good bit of money. However, after the League Cup Final, we went on a run of 2 wins in the following 21 league matches!
Robbos second season we finished 8th, got a qf in the League Cup and 5th round in the Scottish Cup. Not what Id call a successful season, but not a bad season either! However in this season we went on 2 awful runs, winning 1 of our first 9 and 1 in 7 during December
Last Season was incomplete. Both cups were very poor! The 3rd place finish is a nice CV header but means little considering the season still had a quarter to run. However wether we had finished 3rd, 5th or 6th if the season had run its course, the fact we guaranteed 6th meant it was a good season, nothing more than good due to the 2 bad cup exits. However, once again, we went on a shocking run, winning 2 of our last 10.
This season we are 2 wins from 9.
My biggest concern is that unlike in previous seasons, we dont have Moult/Main in 17/18, Turnbull in 18/19 or Scott/Donnelly in 19/20 to drag us through games. Yes Donnelly is still here but he's out till the New Year and Long is a shadow of the player he was last year. We also dont have players like Tait, Aldred, Hartley & McHugh who can lead the team anymore!
Every season Robbos teams go on lengthy shocking runs, but have ALWAYS had a Turnbull / Moult / McHugh / Aldred / Hartley to push us on. This season we not only have none of that, we have players in Lamie, McGinley, Seedorf, Hylton & White who are nothing more than mid table Scottish Championship players, and thats being kind to Seedorf!
Add to that the fact that 3 months into working with this squad, the manager doesnt know his best 11, doesnt know his most effective formation, and the team are making the exact same mistakes they were 8 months ago.
I have never once said Steve Robinson has done a bad job here. He hasnt! But by the same measure, he isnt some kind of messiah either!! Everyone has an expiry date, and I just feel his has come at Fir Park.
This season, our squad is weaker, evidently poorly coached, poorly organized and Im not even sure they seem as motivated as in previous years, theres just something not right. With Campbell undoubtedly away in the next 2 weeks I really do fear for our league status with no goals or leaders in the team
Much of what you have said is not unreasonable but I think you look too negatively on what might happen and use that has a basis of fact.
You seem convinced that Motherwell would not have finished 3rd last season if it was played to a close yet you simply don't know what would have happened. None of us do.
I don't remember anybody complaining about the quality of the squad in August. In fact many were excited by the apparent strength of the team.
I think a few of the players will come good in the coming weeks. Long, Lang, Polworth, Gallagher are all good players who will find there stride and become the influencial players like a few you mentioned from recent seasons.
Who is to say we will lose Campbell this window? You just never know.
Give it a month and let's see from there. The reality might be better than you think.
Remember the Hibs and Aberdeen performances. That is how it could be. Keep the faith.
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LOL. It is like Groundhog Day. We keep going round and round in circles making the same points. I am as guilty as anyone. I love the manager chat.
I remember arguing with Steelboy in 2008? about Jim Gannon. 12years later and I am still saying the same things for managers, he is still saying the same things against them.
Keeps our mind off worrying about a pandemic.
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1 hour ago, Andy_P said:
He's not going to change the minds of a chunk of the support though. The die is cast for some and they are just marking time until the next guy comes in and gets told of his failings that make him not good enough.
We could get 12 points from the next four games and all it would take it is another loss and the previous four wins would be downplayed. For some he's been living on borrowed time probably since that first run of defeats in the December that followed the 2017 League Cup Final.
That he got to another Final, qualified for Europe, has kept the team in the division, rebuilt three, possibly four different teams across his tenure to overcome the challenges of the day, played his part in generating millions of pounds that have put club in its strongest off the field footing for years and achieved everything the board have asked him to achieve doesn't matter.
They've decided.
When you see his achievements summarised like this it seems all the more unbelievable that we have the Robinson out chat as often as we do.
He has done a really good job as your summary shows. You have to wonder just what would make some of the supporters happy given that Cup Finals and third place finishes don't cut it.
For some reason Robinson's face does not fit with sections of our support and no amount of success will change their view. My gut feeling is that were he Scottish, he would be given more respect than he is currently afforded.
I have always felt that the Scottish managers (Brown, McGhee, McCall) have been afforded a benefit of doubt than the non Scottish managers (Gannon, Baraclough, Robinson) have not, despite managerial records at Motherwell that are broadly similar.
My own opinion is that all the above mentioned managers have made a significant contribution to keeping Motherwell in the top flight despite us having no divine right whatsoever to be there.
The exception to this in recent times is ofcourse Maurice Malpas. You can't defend the indefensible.
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Ruddy
Kipre
Hutchinson
Carroll
Cadden (cheating by putting him at RB)
Turnbull
Campbell
Vigurs (when on form)
Johnston
Murphy
Moult
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Today was always going to be tough. 4 games in 10 days (three of which, a fair distance away) was always going to leave the team a little leggy today. The opponents could not have been worse but maybe in a fixture we never win anyway this was the the best possible team to play today.
The 18 year league record does grate. Interestingly the only managers to break the monotony have been the much maligned Baraclough and Robinson himself. You could argue that their victories came against a weakened Rangers but anybody that watched McCall's team put in a subservient display in a League Cup display at Ibrox against a Championship Rangers will know that the Scottish managers record in the last 18 years have been dire.
That said if financial doping applies to Man City against top European sides then by ratio of revenue (if not legal definition) Rangers and Celtic have been getting a doping advantage over every other team in Scotland for a long time.
As it is we sit 9th approaching the end of the first quarter. We matched Aberdeen and Hibs for performance and in Europe we beat the teams ranked below us and lost to the team ranked above us. Not scintillating by any means but no Armageddon either. I think we will find a consistency in the second quarter that will take the team up the table rather than down.
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Madden was the ref when we beat Rangers 3-1 in the play-off. We played really well so beat them.
Our poor start to the game has cost us so far today.
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Despite history telling me otherwise, there is always that what if? thought comes into my head on game day. Our record in almost supernaturally poor against Rangers but the sun is shining and miracles do happen.
It is the hope that kills us!!!
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19 hours ago, Andy_P said:
This one stings.
It wasn't an especially poor performance by any manner of means, we weren't great but for a large chunk of the game we were more than half decent. And I don't think the opposition were particularly startling either. If, as was said Glentoran and Coleraine were roughly a Morton or Queen of the South, then I'd say this lot were perhaps going away to a Killie, Hearts or St Johnstone. Difficult sure, but by no means unbeatable.
But a combination of naivety and stupidity cost us dear.
Break it right down and your sliding doors moment perhaps, they put the free-header they had in the net, we put ours over the bar.
The free-kick given away by Long was naive, the marking in the box appalling. But until then I thought we'd played pretty well. Long did well with the turn and shot, Watt a little unfortunate to get his feet tangled and the shot from close range blocked. But we were matching them comfortably. Their theatrics that were garnering them fouls I think we'd one shot to concern ourselves with. So frustrating for Long to be suckered and the poor defending so close to the break.
I thought we started the second half purposefully but without creating a great deal of chances. And you can't then pass up the kind of chance that fell to Gallagher.
I was anticipating a change and when McGinley gifted them the opportunity I thought that was the time to go to four at the back and put on a winger. But then Gallagher killed it. If there was some justification in "taking one for the team" with the first yellow, to immediately follow that up seconds later by attempting to strange someone in the box. I mean come on!!!
It was done then.
The third adds what feels like some undeserved gloss but in much the same way as we were clinical at Pittodrie so too were Hapoel tonight.
I don't have Odense, Stjarnan, Katowice or MyPa style regrets but this is most certainly an opportunity lost. Particularly when so much of the damage was self-inflicted.
I think you are doing the Israelis a disservice comparing them to Killie, Hearts or St Johnstone. They beat us comfortably last night without having to play well themselves.
I can buy the idea that a team can be unlucky in a one of game but Scottish teams both at club level and at International level have made an art form of gallant defeats over the last 30-40 years. We read and listen to the hard luck story over and over again. If only.......
The truth is that HBS scored three goals last night because they have the technical ability to turn it on when it matters.
Sadly Gallachers performance last night is a snap shot in minature of performance after performance we have had to enduree from Scottish players in recent decades. It is no coincidence that we struggle to beat part time teams and it is no coincidence that a team like HBS beat us without getting out of first gear. Scottish football is a long, long way off the pace.
Progress has been made in recent years. The professionalism has improved as has the fitness thanks to managers like Robinson. Sadly however we have years of neglect to make up for. We may never catch up but at least we are taking steps in the right direction.
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On 9/19/2020 at 9:46 AM, star sail said:
I think we will win this. We have a good record against Aberdeen. Aberdeen have had a good start to the season but they are not thumping teams.
I was reading in the transfer thread that we have no quality in the side. At the start of the season, I think we all felt that we did. Nothing had really changed (loss of Turnbull apart which was inevitable) so for me it is a lack of confidence rather than a lack of quality. Our best performance by some way was against Hibs. I think we may do the same again.
0-1 Motherwell and our season kicking on from there.
I am almost NEVER right so I am going to take this opportunity to pretend I know what I am talking about.
I am also going to take the opportunity of a great result to make a couple of points about some negative comments over this last month.
1. 'We are favourites to be relegated' We were no more favourites to be relegated in 12 place after 7 games than we are to favourites to finish 8th now after 8 games. We should try looking at the bigger picture.
2. 'Robinson should be sacked now because after Hibs and Aberdeen beat us we will only have 4pts.' Let's try to make statements about sacking managers based on the facts of what has happened, rather than negative speculation of what might.
3. 'Motherwell were not really 3rd last season because Aberdeen would have finished 3rd' Can we be absolutely certain about that based on today's result? They might have but like point 2, I would rather base judgement on the fact that Motherwell did finish third, rather than that Aberdeen may have in some mythical end to the season.
Great result today. Let's give our team the benifits of the doubt and give them some proper backing.
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I think we will win this. We have a good record against Aberdeen. Aberdeen have had a good start to the season but they are not thumping teams.
I was reading in the transfer thread that we have no quality in the side. At the start of the season, I think we all felt that we did. Nothing had really changed (loss of Turnbull apart which was inevitable) so for me it is a lack of confidence rather than a lack of quality. Our best performance by some way was against Hibs. I think we may do the same again.
0-1 Motherwell and our season kicking on from there.
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37 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:
I cannae bring myself to wish him any luck at all...hes signed for an utter vermin-infested football club, one of only two that any 'well fan would have avoided.
I get that. I would have preferred anybody else too (except Rangers) but the decision is made now. Sadly I suspect he will play well against us and on those days any goodwill will go out the window.
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28 minutes ago, Yodo said:
Dead right more interested in the quality that's getting served up on the park
The £10 million is a direct result of the quality on the park so you must be delighted.
Season 2020’21: Game 30: St Mirren (A)
in Club Chat
Posted
I agree with this. It is a public relations battle the club would not win and whilst it could be argued that it does not matter what the wider football community thinks, it is a least a distraction and at most an added pressure the club do not need.
As a footballing person I would like to see the 6 points won on the football field and if this decision does not put a bit of fire into the bellies of this squad then even Jurgen Klopp would not be able to motivate this team.
Regardless of the circumstances Motherwell find themselves in, it is proof positive, if any was ever needed that the footballing governing bodies in Scotland are totally inept and it turns Scottish football once again into a circus.