star sail
-
Posts
1,132 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
25
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by star sail
-
-
1 hour ago, Blakey said:
And also a side point. You and others refer to 'the cup success of prior seasons. Firstly, we have had NO cup success. We lost two cup finals in 17/18 where we didn't lay a glove on Celtic. Sure the League Cup run was impressive, but the Scottish Cup run of that season was actually the flukiest I've ever seen. Own goals against Accies and Dundee, Hearts goalkeeper chucks us one, they play usnoff the park before McHugh pulls a stunner from nowhere, then Aberdeen turn in what must have been their worst defensive performance in decades in the semi. I enjoyed it at the time but don't kid yourself, it was a very, very lucky Cup run.
A Cup Final is success for every team in Scotland except the OF and maybe Aberdeen. Nobody in Scotland has been able to get close to Celtic for several seasons now. If Celtic were to lose in a Champions League Final to Barcelona would that been seen in Celtics history as success or failure?
You mention the lucky cup run. Others mention the lucky 3rd place. Why is it that when teams allow us to dominate and hit us with the sucker punch, they are streetwise/ have us sussed, but when we do it to other teams we are lucky?
I do not understand the determination to undermine our clubs success?
-
5
-
-
51 minutes ago, Kmcalpin said:
There's no doubt Robbo is under pressure but he's always managed to turn things around in our darkest hour so far. In such times, he's usually changed our set up and thats what is required now. The 4-2-3-1 set just isn't working especially against teams who sit in.
I'm no tactician......
Neither am I so it interesting to read about this particular formation.
Being someone who knows little about formation it is maybe naive to suggest that Turnbull and Polworth play in the same team but this is what I would like to see. They are our two most creative players. It would take someone more knowledge than me to know how to build a team around the two of them.
Did England not have that problem (with better players) in Lampard and Gerrard?
-
1 hour ago, Andy_P said:
Gillespie, Tait, Carroll, Dunne, Hartley, Heneghan, Johnson, McHugh, Moult, Main, Bowman.
A conceivable eleven all signed from League One and below since a director of recruitment was installed to focus on those levels. That's not including Carson, Long, Frear etc. nor Kipre who came higher up from Leicester.
Not world beating sure, but enough in there from those individuals to keep the team in the division, get to two Cup Finals that were not to mention any more because we didn't win, a third place finish that seemingly doesn't really count, and helped contribute towards the club moving to a debt free position. But aye, a lot of shite. Get rid of the Director of Recruitment. Don't look for players at that level any more.
Can the recruitment be smarter? Absolutely. Have there been bad signings? Definitely. But dismantling the whole set up is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It's toys out the pram stuff.
Here's another eleven. As signed by the greatest modern day manager in Motherwell's recent history, some say. Took us to third too. Kept us in the division. Even won that Cup that thirty years later they still talk of. Still managed to sign every single one of this lot though along the way.
Gardiner, Sneddon, Murray, Maaskant, Jones, Shanks, Caughey, McCabe, Baker, Shepstone, McLeod
I liked Dave McCabe!!! You are absolutely right in what you say however. People forget the rougher spells under Tommy McLean. The cup final victory and a third place finish are the headlines (and great headlines they are) but not every performance under Tommy McLean was a cup winning performance. The same can be said for every manager we have had spanning the last 5 decades, some good, some bad (that we have been in the top flight since the 80's in itself is a minor miracle).
It is a very dangerous game as a Motherwell fan not to enjoy the rarity of two cup finals in one year or a third place finish. Anybody undermining those achievements, or not getting joy from these achievements, may need to consider if Motherwell is really the team for them. Bigger clubs than ours in Scotland have not enjoyed this kind of success in recent times. Fans of Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd to name just a few, would love to have had the success Motherwell have enjoyed during Robinsons time at the club.
The start to the season has been very disappointing. The performance against Hibs last week matched pre-season expectation and we need to hold onto the positives of that game for now. Like a few others have said, a few minor adjustments and a favourable wind may just be enough to ignite the season. I still believe this is a good squad of players and I very much believe that Robinson is a good manager.
I would be hugely disappointed if we lost to Glentorran and maybe if we did my resolve would waver a little but teams like Stjarnan and Albion Rovers remind us that these kind of results are in our DNA .
I believe it will come good but not before a difficult and possibly painful trip to Celtic Park.
-
2
-
-
11 minutes ago, Shaka said:
Its weird but I actually feel MORE worried about us after this game than I have after each of the other 3 games! At least previously we were hopeless, so we knew we would improve, but today was the best we have played this season by absolute miles, and yet (apart from the offside goal) we looked like we could play for the next month solid and not score. Our attack, or lack thereof, is a serious worry
The goals will come. It has been a slow (and disappointing) start to the season no doubt but it is a good squad of players that matched a Hibs side on form.
I wonder if Robinson maybe slightly misjudged pre-season but I think match fitness is returning and the strikers will benefit as the games go on.
Let's just enjoy an improved performance for now. I still have high hopes for the coming season.
-
Motherwell victory to get the season back on track.
I think it is going to be a 'where did that performance come from' kind of a night.
0-3 Well.
-
6 hours ago, Shaka said:
Thats just nonsense tho. Maybe Im reading it wrong, but all thats being asked for is for our "third" place finish to be held in context.
As I said in a previous post, any other manager in world football would be under serious pressure to deliver after 1 win in 11, but ours isnt. We all know that on wed night, Hastie will be back at right wing, Grimshaw will be at RB, Long will be back as TM and Watt will be back on the bench, to come on late probably on the wing, and we will yet again be known as Motherwell Nil. Only hope is Livvy are equally shite so we can scrape a draw
Let's say for arguments sake that the season had lasted from Jan 19 to the finish in March 20. Motherwell would have still finished third in that case. They proved to be the 3rd best team for over a year. Belt and braces, 3rd best in the league. Something to celebrate. That the context should be that the achievement be judged on the games that had still to be played (and we will never know the result of) suggests to me that a certain spin is being applied to the context.
I understand that in a certain context (there it is again) one win in eleven would indeed end in sacking and in modern football more often than not, managers do get sacked but I think it is something for Well fans to celebrate that our board tend to buck that trend and back their man. It also comes after a 3rd place finish which in any context is an achievement for a team like ours.
We have been here before during the sticky spell in the second half of 2018, with some of the support wanting Robinson sacked then. His team then went on a great run in 2019. I know that again some will say that was luck but to be lucky over a 12-14 month period stretches that argument a little.
You might be right this time. The poor run may continue but only two games into a new season I think he has earned the right for us to back him. I think he will turn it round again but I am one of those happy clappers.
-
1
-
-
12 hours ago, Andy_P said:
I don't know about that. You can surely attempt to put anything in whatever context you wish, but that doesn't necessarily mean a negative or positive viewpoint hasn't been applied to the context.
You mention Tommy McLean. When was the last time you heard someone put that 93'94 third place finish in the context of Celtic being at their lowest ebb for about 40 years. Or that both Hibs and Hearts were having budget cuts because they were in the midst of ground reconstruction? Is that not putting that in context too? It is, but it's just applying the context really negatively.
The same as someone dubious of Robinson might suggest that there is little worth attached to the achievement of finishing third in the table because that particular season they only happened to be marginally less bad than another nine teams what was a poor standard of league, Just the same as someone more supportive of Robinson may put a third place finish in the context of that team having the second or third lowest budget in the league and achieving beyond the expectation level.
I was going to reply making a similar point but you have made it far better than I could.
The beauty of undermining the current Spfl teams is that before a ball is kicked anything short of a 2nd place finish or a Cup Final victory renders any other success in the season short off this as failure.
Must be hard to know as a Motherwell manager that before a ball is kicked, a 3rd place finish is not going to cut it with a minority of the support.
-
2
-
-
Interesting to read a few people putting a negative spin on a 3rd place finish. Like all statistics you can focus on any particular timeframe if you want to make a particular point, good or bad. Is it not the case that if you look at the season from Jan 1st 2019- Dec 31st 2019 we were second (or a very strong 3rd).
Looking at the here and now, it is a disappointing start. A week ago, I was very hopeful of taking six points from the first two games. This was based on the strength of the squad alone. Maybe we should have taken the pre season friendly form a little more seriously. Hindsight as always is a wonderful thing.
Some stats are difficult to hide from and the one win in eleven is not one I had picked up on. To put a positive spin on things, if that ten game stretch represents a temporary bad spell than we can still come out the other side (perhaps fortunately) with little lasting damage.
I am confident that it will come good. We have the same squad that we had a week ago and I believe the manager is good enough to turn it round.
-
The midfield situation reminds me of the year Vigurs and Lawson arrived. The resources were plentiful but McCall could not find the balance in the team. It made the squad seem somehow lop-sided.
I can understand the issue. To leave Turnbull or Polworth on the bench seems like a luxury, a team like Motherwell can not afford so the desire to play them both is understandable. Campbell on the bench also seems like a waste of resource. The challenge of a strong squad for the manager is that tough decisions have to be made.
Will be interesting to see who is ultimately favoured and how they are deployed. It is a good headache to have but I wonder if it comes as a result of the fact that Turnbull was not supposed to be with us. Robinson will earn is salt working out the best combination.
-
On 7/23/2020 at 2:17 PM, Onthefringes said:
He's the first name on Robinson's teamsheet
I really liked Grimshaw as a player when he first arrived from Man Utd. Did the simple things well and his attitude was without question. He reminded me a bit of a Neil Lennon type player (in playing style only) and would have fitted nicely as a holding midfielder.
He does not look like a natural right back to me but I can see why Robinson would want to have him in the team. If he is indeed the first name on the team sheet, I would imagine it is for his attitude and work ethic as much as anything else. He is a player that I prefer to see in the team than not. That he would be the first name on the team sheet is very interesting.
-
One thing I have noticed about Steven Gerrard's Rangers is that there pre-season record is very good. He seems to treat them like competitive games insisting that the team plays with intensity.
I find it difficult to understand the dynamics of pre-season games. Whilst the results can be unpredictable, this particular result has gone to regular season form.
If the team are not yet fully fit they should be fairly close. In athletics a general rule of thumb is that you need six weeks to notice performance benefits from training.
Also in athletics, the principle of doing training sessions and sometimes races fatigued from previous work is not uncommon. The danger of this approach is that if not managed carefully it can increase the chance of injury. Football is not athletics but there must be some overlapping principles.
My theory in this particular instance is that Rangers were mentally up for the game (because Gerrard seems to demand that in friendles) and Rangers are simply a better side and it showed.
I would like to think that we would do the same to lesser opposition in pre season friendlies but it rarely seems to work out that way and hence we get the arguments every pre-season about just how much we can read into these results.
-
On 7/1/2020 at 4:40 PM, weeyin said:
The question is which neighbour is being the arsehole.
Probably Carroll, but there is always a chance you end up with a neighbour that doesn't like Irish or black people.
The quotes from the police:
and from the club:
suggest it wasn't a big deal.
This was my first thought. Larkhall is not known for its tolerance and multicultural diversity.
-
2 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:
It was 3-2 to Morton but it should have been 5, 6, 7, 8 to Morton. They absolutely demolished us and Joe Chalmers at left back got one of the worst goings over I've ever seen in football.
McDonald on as a sub brought us back into it but even in Extra Time, when you'd have thought the momentum would be in our favour, Morton totally gubbed us and could have scored a 2 or 3 in the last half hour.
It was one of the worst humiliations I've ever seen as a Motherwell fan. We've lost to teams like Alloa Athletic or Albion Rovers but they were crappy, scrappy matches that could have gone either way. Morton absolutely pumped us that night and we were an utter shambles. Probably not seen a lower league side roll us over like that since the Ayr United match at Fir Park.
These games happen. I have sat through 'the worst humiliation I've ever seen as a Well fan' about 100 times under ever manager we have had since the mid 1980's. I have watched turgid dross under Davie Hay, Tommy McLean, Alex McLeish, Terry Butcher, Maurice Malpas, Harri Kampman, Jim Gannon, Mark McGhee, Billy Davis, Craig Brown, Stevie Robinson (I am sure I am missed one or two).
I suspect that you will put the failings that night squarely at the door of the manager. You have to remember that many of those same players had been playing just as poorly a year prior under Stuart McCall. Ainsworth, McManus, McDonald to name a few.
I tend to have a soft spot for managers more than I do for players. I think the job of a football manager at a club like Motherwell is a very difficult one. I also think that players get off very lightly at times for not doing their job properly. My opinion (as one who has absolutely no inside track to the goings on at FP) is that there were a few players at the time that were doing a lot of talking and disrupting behind the scenes and not performing on the park. Les Hutchison suggested as much when Baraclough left.
My overriding feeling is that fans are very good at coming to a conclusion very early on about managers and then building the facts that back that conclusion up round about that argument. As an example a fan of Baraclough might look at his overall record with NI U21's and come to the conclusion that he has done a good job. A critic might just look at the last half dozen matches where the stats don't look as good. A fan might praise a win over Spain, a critic might think it was just luck.
Who is right? The fan or the critic. The beauty of football is that nobody really knows. Baraclough might be a superstar or he might be a dud. He may also just simply be an average manager doing the best he can.
-
11 minutes ago, Andy_P said:
And chose Wes Fletcher ahead of him.
Wes Fletcher made a decent start scoring in the first game away at ICT. Moult's debut was not as impressive. I am sure if you asked many Well fans in the month of August who was going to be the better of the two, many would have gone with Fletcher. Hindsight ofcourse makes a mockery of that.
You made the point about the East Fife game and yes he did suffer abuse that night. To me it backs up the opinion that some Well fans were never going to give him time. It is no crime to not know your best 11 in the month of August. Baraclough was not given the time to get it right maybe rightly so maybe not.
I don't remember McCall receiving the same flack for losing to Icelandic part-timers in the early part of the season. Infact many Well fans used it as an example of why you cannot expect consistency when bedding in new players and getting up to speed physically.
I would not hang my hat on the argument that sacking Baraclough was wrong (it may have been) but I am confident in my view that there were a good proportion of the support that were not keen to give him the benefit of the doubt.
-
2 hours ago, GazzyB said:
Baraclough came across as a really likeable guy, but he was unbelieeeeeeeavably out of his depth managing at our level.
It's quite funny he's now the manager of an international football team.
What brings you to the conclusion he was out his depth? Ultimately it did not work out but if he had been out his depth we would have been relegated. I think we were heading for relegation when Baraclough arrived early December and he kept us up. It was a notable achievement. The team under Stuart McCall was dead on its feet.
I don't believe any Scottish Manager would have got us through the play-offs. They would have had us beat before a ball was kicked (McCall proved this in a League Cup shambles a few years prior).
I have felt over the years that certain managers have been judged more harshly than others. Baraclough was judged harder than most. Good luck to him. The best news of all is that we keep our man (for the time being anyway).
-
2
-
-
4 minutes ago, numpty said:
As, you would hope, is any manager we've interviewed and subsequently offered the job to.
Indeed. I was making the point in relation to Robinson also being well prepared. In a NI interview I think both men would be thoroughly prepared. My hunch is that Robinson may well get the NI job with Baraclough his assistant. They seem to have a strong relationship so it would be a good fit. I would prefer however that Robinson stay with us.
-
13 minutes ago, middleeastdave said:
When he had his interview for the Well job, he was the most thorough candidate and very impressive according to Alan Burrows, so I would imagine he could be easily impressive for the Northern Island job...unfortunately!!
So was Baraclough though. I heard a story that Baraclough had folders full of players histories (Louis Moult was the example given) and was the most thoroughly prepared of the candidates at the time. I would like to see Baraclough get the NI job. Despite the opinion of some Well fans (the same ones that were telling us not so long ago that Robinson should be sacked), I think he has the makings of a very good manager. He has done very well with the NI U21's. It would also mean that we could keep our manager.
-
21 minutes ago, ropy said:
My guess is that the winner came off Hartley (again).
Still got some way to go to match Craigan’s goalscoring record.
Really disappointing tonight but no panic yet. Remember Aberdeen have been through an equally poor run and turned a corner last night. It happens.
-
The fact that any team in world football is paying £1.5 million for a 19 year old striker with half a dozen professional goals to his name is crazy. However that is the crazy world we live in. Football transfer fees are obscene, so relatively speaking £1.5 million for James Scott becomes a issue for discussion and debate.
My opinion is that this is a great piece of business by the club. Four league goals is not prolific. With a fit Christopher Long it is debatable if Scott would be a first team starter week in week out. I understand the argument about potential but potential can be fulfilled or it can fizzle out. I think unfortunately we are a club that cannot indulge in the luxury of waiting to find out when these offers come along.
The bigger picture ( that the likes of Steelboy will refuse to admit) is that we should be celebrating the fact that we are in this position in the first place. The club and Robinson himself should be congratulated for producing and nurturing these players. Scott, Turnbull, Campbell, Cadden etc. This is a fantastic return. What other Scottish club is producing this young talent at the moment? We should be celebrating this success.
Let's enjoy watching Scott develop at Hull (if he does) and hope that the club can make good use of the £1.5 million (a considerable amount of money) to develop the new young talent.
-
2
-
-
3 hours ago, Shaka said:
Between 2,000 + 2,500 in Nancy. Think we had an official allocation of 1900
I was at work and kept pressing refresh on the Nancy town square webcam as I jealously watched the Motherwell fans gather. In my memory there was about 250,000 gathered there!!!! It was a beautiful sight!
-
1
-
-
On 1/27/2020 at 12:20 PM, Shaka said:
I think the BT Coverage is light years ahead of anything else up here. Sutton is a wind up merchant but he does make valid points, Craggs is probably the best pundit we have here up here and the anchor, Currie is ok. The Richard Gordon / Packie Bonner / Michael Stewart / Stephen Thompson / Billy Dodds gang are all pish and an embarassment
I think Richard Gordon generally does a very good job on Sportsound. He is knowledeable and is about as reasonable and neutral as you can hope to get in Scottish football. Yes he is an Aberdeen fan but he is balanced when commenting on them.
This may counteract my praise for RG but my gripe is the OF obsession on the show. I have listened to build ups for Sunday OF games the following day that superceed team news for Saturday 3pm kick offs.
I remember once a few seasons back driving up to Aberdeen (it may have been the 2nd place end of season game) with my Dad and we had to listen to Rangers take over talk the whole way up in the car. We got out the car at 2.50pm and still had not heard the team news for our game. That was back in the Jim Traynor days ( the Airdrie fan!!!) .
-
24 minutes ago, Well Well said:
and to think MJC predicted a loss to this mob. He really is a troll.
On paper it was a difficult tie. Away to one of the better Championship teams always provides Cup shocks. A home defeat to Ross County last season should have been enough to make us very wary. I was really surprised by how poor Dundee were. They will do well to hold on to a play off place based on last nights performance.
As for us. I should be buzzing after a 3-0 Cup away win but I found last nights game a real Jeckyl and Hyde performance. First the good: the second goal was a thing of beauty and the performances by Gallagher, Long and (IMO) man of the match Campbell were excellent.
The problem was that the good was punctuated by some poor performances and at times very disjointed play. Hartley, Seedorf and Tait particularly looked very rusty and against better opposition, I don't think we would have got away with being three players down. Defensively we were all over the place at times and Gallagher's good performance papered over a few cracks. Our shape looked all wrong at the start of the second half, with big spaces opening up for Dundee to exploit. Danny Johnston's run when he came on highlighted this perfectly. Donnelly coming on seemed to resolve this. That is not a criticism of O'Hara because I thought he played well but the balance of the side looked better when Donnelly came on. Let's hope it was rustiness after the winter break as better teams will exploit those weaknesses.
I would hope for a kind draw in the next round. We have not had the luck of the draw in recent years in either cup competition. When did we last draw anyone less than Premiership side or top half Championship side in the knock out stages?
-
2
-
-
4 minutes ago, Yassin said:
We did also spend a few years with Hollis, Twardzik, Nielsen and Samson. We've had a weirdly mixed bag, other than Ripley who was pretty middle of the road it's been all sugar or shite.
Yes. Hollis came into my mind seconds after I posted. It may have been better to say the decade started and ended well.
-
The BBC did a team of the decade. The one genuine contender for that team from a Motherwell perspective was Randolph. Fraser Foster got the vote and it would be hard to argue with that but there can be few better keepers in Scotland over this last decade.
Interestingly he replaced John Ruddy who arguably was as good if not better in his time at Motherwell. I will never forget his triple save at Tannadice which was probably the best save(s), I have seen live at a game.
Considering our first and second choice keepers at the moment, we have been fairly blessed over the last decade in this area.
2020/21 Transfer Discussion Thread
in Club Chat
Posted
Congratulations to DT.
He has the makings of a great player and I don't think it will be long before he is outperforming some of the Celtic first team regulars.
Celtic have a bargain but this is not to say that I think the club could have held out for more.
I will be following his career with interest and I hope he does really well at Celtic (except when they play us) and moves on to bigger things sooner rather than later.
If he ends up anything like the player Gary McAllister was he has a bright future ahead.