El Grew

By my reckoning we have played the SPL Champions 4 times this season and only lost once. We have drawn 3 times and to be quite honest we should've won 2 of them at FP. That must be the best record in the SPL this season. Ah well not a bad season maybe.

Apologies if this has been asked and answered but exactly who in the current squad will still be here for next season. I understand we are losing Ruddy, O'Brien, Jutkiewitz and perhaps Reynolds.

Only bad teams lose 10 goals in 2 games. Last night we conceded 6 at home which is criminal. When you analyse where the goals came from - 2 resulted from the right-back position and 2 from the left-back position - then serious questions must be posed to the two guys in these positions. Saunders is young and inexperienced and will learn and anyway is entitled to expect his 3 fellow defenders who are much more experienced to help him. IMO Hammell is a liability as a defender. He's great going forward but continues to repeat the same defensive positional mistakes over and over again. First and foremost full backs need to be competent at defending and anything after that is a bonus.

Season ticket holders are arguably the lifeblood of the club. Most stump-up their hard-earned well before the season begins and so the club gets the benefit of a kind of interest-free loan. Then during the season the club begins reducing pay at the gate prices to attract more people to games (i.e. Hibs last night) and this season we get short-changed by paying for 19 home league games but only getting 18. IMO the club should be considering providing some added value for season ticket holders e.g. why not give them a free programme at every home game; put vouchers in the season ticket book which get the bearer a free pie, bovril etc. at every home game. It would not cost them much to do this and it would add a bit of value to having a season ticket.

Hearts debt has now risen to £35 million - latest published. When you consider Rangers debt is £30 million and there is deep concern about that and how it is affecting them how the hell can Hearts keep going? Rangers will undoubtedly get this sorted one way or another but Hearts surely must be close to oblivion.

The defence has played well undoubtedly but a lot of credit must go to Keith Lasley and Steve Jennings for providing terrific protective cover so that you don't see very many opposition players being able to make runs through on top of our central defenders. They play like a couple of old-fashioned wing-halves and have been outstanding since Craig Brown and Archie Knox came to the club. Note to anyone under 40, wing halves was a term once used to describe defensive midfield players.

There is no doubt that the club did everything necessary to get the pitch sorted out and at cconsiderable cost. There was one glaring mistake though and that was the decision to seed the pitch instead of laying turf. Seeding grass is notoriously difficult to do even under ideal growing conditions and to believe that it would be ready to play football on by August and stand-up to the winter was optimism of the crazy variety. What you are seeing now is the result of that decision severely excarcerbated by one of the worst winters for decades and poor groundsmanship and grounds maintenance. Players are actually playing on the planting medium that was laid for seeding (a mixture of sand, loam and soil) which without grass roots to bind it just cuts up exactly the way it is doing. The sensible option was to have laid turf, which had already had its grass root system already established -evidenced by how well the two areas that were recently turfed are doing. And any talk of grass growing when the weather improves is fantasy as anyone who has seen the pitch should no as there is precious little grass to grow. The only thing the club can be faulted for was for taking advice to seed instead of laying turf and we are now paying for that.

The third generation astro-turf pitches are light years ahead of the disaster that Dunfermline had a few years ago. The one Hamilton had when they were in the 1st Division got plenty of plaudits as it was so good. Players are doing much more training on astro-turf pitches nowadays so the 'fear of the unknown' is much less than when Dunfermline had theirs. Lets be honest, we are not playing on grass pitches after November as they are all usually bereft of grass coverage by then. Astro-turf would be cheaper to maintain too as there would be no need for undersoil heating, pitch covers or diddy groundstaff. Playing in the northern hemisphere it's got to come - a number of Russian teams are now using it and are allowed to play European Champions League and Europa League games on it so clearly EUFA don't have any issues with it.

For the second week on the trot Steve Jennings. Looks a different player now he's gettiing regular games.

Echo what many others have already said. Pitch is disgraceful. Reputedly spent about £400K during close season on it too. Work was done - we all so 'Flow's pictures. However it looked as though there had been a game of horse polo played on it. It was downright dangerous with all the holes - made by foxes!!!! Its just not good enough and comparing it to other teams pitches is a completely pointless exercise. Just because other teams pitches are poor is no justification for ours being poor. IMO the problem is the ground staff who on this evidence and previous seasons just don't seem to know what they are doing. There is no grass growth during the winter months so there is no need to be applying fertiliser, feed or water ergo no need to have a heavy tractor on a sodden pitch. Not the first time this has been seen. Downright incompetence.

Interesting debate. Just as a wee aside, I'm presently reading "Motherwell Champions of Scotland 1931/32" and found it interesting to note that even when we were flying very high winning the league and generally being sh*t hot during that era, we strugged to attract fans to go along and watch the team at FP. Seemingly all our best attendances were away from FP as away fans were desperate to see us and/or see their team put one over on us. Some things never change eh?

Nail, head, hammer for me. Too many of our so-called footballers seem to believe the manager should be some sort of jolly fellow that just lets them do what they like when they like when in actual fact he's the poor b*stard that carries the can when they f*ck up by being unable to perform even the basics of their chosen so-called profession. It's just as well they never had to play for the likes of Shankly, Busby, Stein, Ferguson etc. etc. Poor wee lambs!

Strange but true. Cue music ............ Welcome to the Twilight Zone.

I've maintained from the start of the season that because of our circumstances (new manager, young players being pitched-in, lack of experience etc.) we were in a false position in the league and that others such as Aberdeen and Hearts would probablly pick-up and pass us, and they have. That is not a concern. However what is a concern, is that we are on a long losing run and we are due to play Hamilton, St Mirren, Kilmarnock and Falkirk - all in our area of the league now - and none of these will be easy to pick up wins from. And lets be clear, it is really a few wins we need to get some breathing space. As the poster who set the topic says, it is not fantastical that we could be lying 10th or worse after this. Another worrying aspect is that we are hearing nothing from the club about the managerial situation (other than short term) and we are right in the middle of the last transfer window before the end of the season and no sign of any moves related to that.

Jim Gannon stated what many on the terraces, sorry seats, in football grounds around Scotland have said for years. Refereeing standards in our top league are probably as bad as they've ever been. However, it cannot all be laid at Hugh Dallas's door. There are a number who have gone before him who allowed the refereeing situation to degenerate to its current level. He just happens to be the poor guy that's inherited the mess. He was one of the very best whistlers I've seen and I've have no doubt that behind closed doors he is fuming at what he sees. However, he can hardly come out and start sacking refereees right, left and centre - he will need to work away quietly in order to try and get standards back up again. The man has a thankless task. For, younger posters, if you think the refs you are seeing now are bad then you should have seen the chancers we used to have before the advent of cameras covering every game!! J P R Gordon anyone? Aye it still hurts!

I don't know if they are the 'dream team' but with Brown's tactical expertise and Knox's 'I take no shit' approach they will certainly ensure that the players know what's expected of them on the park and shake any lethargy out of them that may have begun to set-in.

A very decent performance by all accounts tonight that should have yielded at least a draw. Saturday's game against Hamilton is now massive for us as we must get some points on the board again and stop the rot. Our record against Hamilton in the league at FP, is dare I say it, execellent (only 8 losses in 54 games) P-54, W31, D-15, L8. Their last win at FP in the league was 1981 and before that 1938! Surely we can do the business on Saturday and bring the New Year in with a win.

Hearts have only scored 7 goals in 8 home games BUT have only conceded 6. Only teams to have won there this season (so far) Rangers and St Johnstone. Hard defensive nut to crack.

And is it not? I'd love us to get a draw out of this or better a win but the head rules the heart.

Same old story. Best of the play, but can't score. Hamilton game now assumes mammoth proportions.

Shankly on whether one of his players had been 'interfering with play' when called offside - "If he's no interfering wi' play, he shouldnae be oan the park"

You can talk about it until the coos come home, but the main things that might get young people into FP is a decent football playing team that is regularly in the top 6 of the SPL and much reduced gate prices for under-21s - say £10 and a free programme.

McGarry back to keep Auld Broon and Knox company!!?? Otherwise why??

I don't want to play the age card but I've been watching the 'Well for more years than I care to remember and the one thing that our club has been consistently excellent at, is making a right roaring c*nt of things. I believe Jim Gannon thought in coming to manage a club in the SPL he would be stepping up to a much higher level of football than he had been at. However, he was genuinely shocked at what he had taken on at FP in terms of the poor quality of the playing staff. He did try really hard to improve things in that respect but obviously stood on the egos of a few players whose opinion of their own football ability is vastly greater than it actually is. In my view Gannon was right - the standard of player at FP when he arrived was about as low as I can ever recall, and I've seen some pretty awful ones. Players lacking in physical stature, physical conditioning, lack of ability and unable to take on board simple instructions. He rightly decided a clear out was needed and some of the players would not do and brought in a number of younger players plus some loan signings to try and jump start things. Yes he was ruthless but sometimes that's called for and I think it was the right call. However, during the last 3 games in particular when we shipped 12 goals the cold light of reality finally dawned on him and he knew that with a large number of the playing staff he was wasting his time. We do have far too many players o our books who just will not do for SPL level for many different reasons and maybe he felt that the rebuilding job was going to be too much without having the freedom to get rid of all the dead wood and a bit of cash to strengthen the team. So I think that whoever comes in will be faced with exactly the same problems as Jim Gannon.

WellWell this is the best post I've read on these boards. IMO it hits right to the heart of things. I too am sorry to see JG leave because I thought he was just what we and the SPL needed badly - new blood with a different perspective. JG, thanks for what you tried to do and good luck for the future.