David

It depends on what Bournemouth would be willing to pay him, as he'd then find himself still playing football in Scotland close to family for a while, but on much higher wages than we could ever give him. Or Hibs could ever give him either, I'd reckon.

Can't complain or moan about the players or manager due to the sizeable win, so have to settle for the next best thing. Moan about the fans 😂

Abuse, constant or otherwise, shouldn't be condoned. Of course, we shouldn't expect fans to just sit there and applaud politely. It's an emotional sport, and fans make it what it is, but there's a line that shouldn't be crossed, and for me, that line is asking myself, "Would I be happy to see a 19- or 20-year-old in my family treated that way by an adult?" Basically, if it's something someone would get into trouble for saying outside the confines of a football stadium, or something they wouldn't say to another guy in a different setting, it probably shouldn't be said at all. Voice frustration, anger, elation, whatever. But buying a ticket for a game doesn't come with the right to be a tosspot. Luckily, most people aren't like that. But the few who are should be ejected from stadiums and told to spend their weekends doing something else.

100% It's a chance for usually grown adult men to act in a manner they never would be allowed to outside a stadium. I think it's more a reflection on them than anything else.

Last time I checked teams don't get relegated on their managers win percentage. Points and league placings are what matter, and we're currently sitting 9th. And we're closer to 8th than 10th. That's a good job. Not a great job, but a good job, with room for improvement.

I think the most important takeaway from this ridiculous discussion is that Kettlewell doesn't fall into the above category. He's both qualified and good at his job.

I guess it's all about opinions. I don't think the documentary series really made that much of a dent. There's tons of that kind of thing over here already covering NFL especially. And a lot of MLS teams are doing regular episodes of that kind of thing on YouTube. I've been in two US states in the past two months, covering four or five different cities and I've yet to see anything more than Messi and Miami shirts in any places that sell "soccer" shirts. Never even seen a Wrexham shirt in the flesh.

Well, for a guy who seemingly forgets the basics, he's done reasonably well with the resources he has.

Wasn't that also down to the guys who actually bought the club though? Sure, people in the US know who Beckham is, but they know Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney more I'd think.

You said you were 'baffled' that Kettlewell doesn't see what the fans see. He's paid to see far beyond the basics of what we observe. We see Vale play for 90 minutes. We don't see him in training every day. Kettlewell has to focus on tactical adjustments, adaptability, and overall team dynamics. It could very well be the case that having Vale play up top alongside Bair affects the qualities that Bair brings to the team. It could see him less able to play his preferred game. It could also affect the performance of the midfield having two players so far forward, instead of one playing slightly behind and offering an outlet to our attacking midfielders? It could be the case that the management team have seen reasons to play Vale slightly behind Bair because it will affect how the opposition defence then goes on to try to deal with them during the game, pulling their defenders out of position and depending on those defenders qualities, maybe that allows Bair more space to get in behind? Now, I don't know if any of that is true, but it could all be a factor in his decision. I would wager that it's nowhere near as simple as we like to think, and I'd wager that whatever we see from the stands, Kettlewell and his team see that and much more.

Kettlewell doesn't see what the fans see, and that's a good thing. Because, for the most part, the fans know hee-haw about managing a football team. There's a reason why he's being paid to sit in the dugout while we're paying to sit in the stands.

I'd go Moses all day long. It hasn't really worked for Shaw at Fir Park. On Spittal, I don't see him being dropped.

I was meaning in relation to the info provided in that post about Kelly. The main point was that we can't hold the keeper solely responsible for clean sheets, as it's a team effort. You're right though, we're not the worst defensively as far as goals conceded is concerned.

What that tells me is that we're the worst defensive team in the league. Goals conceded are never just down to a single player, including the goalkeeper. It's a reflection of our defending as a unit, and primarily the defensive abilities and performances of the defence, which includes the keeper.

What statistics are those? Just out of curiosity?

If Kelly was just as good at commanding his area, distribution, and coming for crosses as he is at shot-stopping, he wouldn't be at Motherwell. Players who are competent in all areas and who consistently play relatively well will draw interest from further up the food chain. I'm not saying we should retain Kelly or that he's worth what he's getting at the moment, but the notion that some fans have that we can simply let him walk and find another keeper who's just as good or even better for less money is unlikely.

I doubt it. While we're all over here slagging Kelly off, we conveniently forget the absolute bomb scares we've had previously. That's the problem with having a few decent keepers over the past 15 years or so. Fans think that they're easy to come by.

A quote we could very well be using to talk about Bair if we punt him for £750,000. Which is why the club will likely snap the hand off any club offering that kind of dough.

It really comes down to the criticism and how it's delivered. I doubt that Bair would have any issue with anyone calling into question his record before he arrived at Motherwell or people questioning our signing him based on that record. If we're honest, it was absolutely honking. He'll likely be the first to admit that. He's not an idiot. He'll know his record wasn't great. Another key aspect is being critical of the player's performance and his record without getting personal. But those same fans who were critical of him are now giving him his due credit, so it works both ways, doesn't it? Social media is a cesspool anyway, and any player who reacts to that really needs to sort themselves out. Once we step into the stadium, all that criticism should go out the window. It's at that point we support the team and the manager. I don't think booing or hurling abuse from the stands is acceptable.

Of course it's acceptable to have those opinions. The difference is, it's usually the people who want to wait to see what a manager can do or who want to wait for full information on investment who are the ones telling others to basically shut up. There's room for all types of opinions. That's the whole point of this website. We're fans. If we only ever discussed facts or waited until October or November to critique a player then this place would be a ghost town most of the time.

It should be pointed out that there's a huge difference between us signing a player, fans looking at his previous record and discussing how he's performed up until that point, how we think he'll do for us and so on, and actually booing him at a game. The former is a large part of what being a fan of any club is all about. Chatting about speculation, looking at previous stats and so on and discussing how he's done until then and guessing how he'll fit into our squad and setup. If we all stop doing that and only discuss players once they've signed and only strictly discuss how they do for us, and even then only how they do for us after an agreed-upon period of time to allow them to settle in, we'd be as well binning this forum and others like it. It's like the investment thread and the individuals who keep saying, "Let's wait until something is concrete before discussing it." What's the fun in that? If you don't want to discuss it, then don't log in. Go and wait in the corner for official confirmation before weighing in. Leave the rest of us to pass the time discussing signings, speculating about new owners, and generally talking shite. It's what fans have done since the game originated. Previously, it was only done in pubs and workplaces; now, it's done online as well. It's all part of the fun of being a fan. Thanks for letting us all know 😉

I imagine he's likely gotten anywhere between 30%-70% of the total value left on his contract paid to him.

That's a big "if" though, isn't it? As I said earlier, we don't know what our team will look like next season. Will Bair be as effective without the likes of Spittal in midfield? What if he picks up an injury? What if, and I hope it's not true, this season is his "Van Veen season"? £750,000 is a fair price for a guy who's really done nothing of note until this season. Any team paying that would basically be taking a punt on him. Sure, English teams can spend more, but would they spend more on a guy who has one good season in seven under his belt? He didn't really take a drop in wages though. He didn't force a move from St Johnstone to join us, he agreed to terminate his contract by mutual consent with the club because they deemed him a waste of time and money and he wasn't getting much game time promised to him. So, when he signed for us a month or so later he was basically earning nothing. I doubt there was a whole lot of teams blowing up his agents phone wanting to pay him more than we were offering either.

The best-ever Canadian player? Alphonso Davies, the Champions League-winning Bayern Munich player who joined them for $22 million, is probably going to hold that title for quite some time.

That's the main factor I think. Like it or not, clubs down south will be looking at a player like Bair as a punt. They're always going to be asking "yes, he's done that in Scotland against the teams in that league, but can he cut it in the big time down south?" We could keep him for another year. But there's always the risk that he returns to previous form depending on what the team looks like around him next season. Will he be the same player without Spittal in the side? Not sure that's a risk we can take. We ideally need to bring these players in then move them on at a decent profit. Bair would fit the bill in that regard.