David

It's called nonsense.

You realise that your whole "Alexander living out his fantasy" stuff is really weird, right? You initially said that "the club is now financially crippled because they let Alexander live his arrogant fantasy" when someone mentioned some of our players being signed on long-term contracts. Do you honestly believe that it was Alexander who dictated that we start offering longer term deals to players who the club believed may have some sell-on value? That was clearly a direction that the board wanted to move in to try and put an end to the constant rebuilding of the team every summer. A decision that was widely applauded by the fans who were getting fed up seeing us sign someone on a one year deal only for them to do well then piss off sharpish for nothing. Sure, Alexander was given a contract extension at the wrong time, but he'd have been a total fool not to accept it. As for what cost him his job, it wasn't anything to do with "stubborn hubris." I understand that his self-confidence seems to rub you the wrong way for some bizarre reason, but guess what? You need to have a level of self confidence, or dare I say arrogance to be a football manager at this level. He lost his job because the club panicked after we lost in Europe and the fans went mental. Absolutely a mistake, considering we were days away from the league season starting. And we're paying the price for that now. Yeah, but we didn't pay a transfer fee, which is something we got when he left for United eventually. Bottom line is, we got a player who most had low expectations of and managed to get a decent run out of them. It was a deal that certainly paid off for the club, and for the player financially. Wait, what? You read Hammell saying that he had a conversation with the media team who mentioned some names we're being linked with in the press, and that some of the players mentioned were not on our radar as somehow meaning our Head of Recruitment isn't dealing in transfer business? I'm interested to hear you break down the thought process behind that one!

I'm not sure why you're still banging on about this "Alexander living out his fantasy" guff. That was addressed a while back. Here's a question for you, why should Tony Watt or any other player show loyalty to any club? All you need to do is read back through this thread to see how fans act when a player isn't performing. We show them zero loyalty, so I don't know why we should expect it in return. If you actually look at it, we got him for nothing, he provided a decent level of performance and goal return while he was here, signed not one but two contract extensions, then when he left we got money for him. In short, he owed us absolutely nothing. He was paid to do a job, which is what he did. He then moved on when another employer offered him considerably more to do the same job.

We all know the reason. Money. And to be quite honest, who wouldn't have done the same? If he's willing to come back, the manager fancies bringing him in and we have the finances then I say we go for it. We need goals, and he showed last time with us that he can score goals.

Okay, so that's one of those sides then who last went down 14 years ago. What about the others? My point is, we're a club with a small fanbase. It's not unthinkable that we could end up being relegated. Bigger clubs than us have went down in the past twenty years, so it could happen. And if it does, we just need to readjust our financial planning to suit. Unless, of course, there's a multi-millionaire out there who's willing to chuck some money at us and not see any real return? If that's the the case then happy days!

Yes, and all of those clubs have bounced between the Premier league and the Championship in recent times. Which is exactly the level we're at, if we're honest.

There's a good chance that we're not good enough for the Premier League either, so he can get some game time with Dundee and potentially return to us next season.

It's probably worth remembering that the club didn't decide to knock back various offers from multi-millionaires wanting to finance the club so we could be fan-owned instead. There wasn't really many other options. The truth is, we're a club with a relatively small fanbase. I think only St Johnstone, Ross County and Livingston see less fans on average than we do in the Premiership, and even then it's only a difference of around 1,000-1,700 fans. Failing a generous rich person or group who are happy to throw money away during a financial downturn, we simply have to be prepared to cut our cloth accordingly. And if that means we slash our wage bill, and end up playing Championship football, that's just how it goes.

And still is, I'd say. All we need to do is sign one player on a three year deal who fulfils the potential we see in him and when we sell him on it completely negates the wages paid out to the likes of Shields during his contract. And on Shields, as you say, he hasn't been a total bust. It's not like he was signed and quickly disappeared from the starting eleven and squad, he's been active and doing his bit. It's just that "his bit" hasn't been what we'd hoped.

Exactly. What I was commenting on was the notion that signing those players on those contracts was "Alexander's arrogant fantasy." It wasn't. Alexander certainly was at fault for many things, but he most likely was working within a transfer policy and strategy determined by the higher ups at the club. And it was a policy the vast majority of us saw as sensible.

That's not true, of course. The club as a whole decided to move forward with a long-term strategy when it came to signing certain players. It just hasn't paid off, which means it's very easy for people like you to come along after the fact and point out the errors. Go and read the transfer thread when we signed Shields. The overwhelming opinion was that signing a 24 year old Scottish striker who had scored 11 goals in the Championship the season before was a decent bit of business.

I agree. The situation surrounding him has dragged on a bit, and considering he's out of contract this summer he either has to play or move on.

From what I've seen of Cornelius he's a handy player to have in the squad, but I don't think he's a first choice for the manager. That's not to say that it makes him a bad player, because the truth is, every team needs squad players. He could eventually nail down a starting spot, but if he's offered a chance to go elsewhere and play more regularly and make similar if not better money then I wouldn't grudge him the move.

There's always the chance that he may not fancy uprooting and heading down south or whatever. We can always live in hope.

As we've seen said many times in the past, a relegation battle when the fans are literally always a bawhair away from turning on the team, especially at home, isn't the place to bring in 16 or 17 year old kids. It just isn't.

If Penney is away, he must fancy another loan move closer to home, because he's not making a dent in that Ipswich team. He's third choice at best.

If we're honest, McKinstry is showing exactly the kind of potential that caused Leeds to snap him up at an early age. If he was our own player, we'd be talking about how long we can hold on to him, how long it'll be before interest from larger clubs materialises. He's young, raw and still got a lot to learn, but he stands out when he's on the ball. He looks like a player who's capable of going a level or two higher than most of our current team.

That's why I said I enjoy reading it. I'm also one of those Joe Bloggs!

Let's hope so. I'm sure Shields can do some club a turn if he's played as a striker, but it's just not worked out at Motherwell for him.

Exactly.

There's never a middle ground when it comes to football fans! Me included! 😂

It's not a great side we're playing though, is it? Arbroath have won 3 league games in the Championship this season. Despite our own form, we have to fancy ourselves to go through here.

As I said in the Hammell thread, we may want to take a punt on someone else, but can we afford it? All this chopping and changing is costing us money, and I don't know if we have the funds to do it.

What I enjoy reading is the expert opinions on who the manager should have picked and the formation he should have used after the game is played. The number of professional football people who are paid well and actually make a living from the game who seemingly "know fuck all" compared to Joe Bloggs who has never played or managed at a similar level is astounding really, isn't it? Alexander got the old tombola patter for constantly changing the team. Hammell gets pelters for sticking with the same players. The club gets questioned for not signing anyone, then gets grief for signing players who aren't good enough. And I see we're still proclaiming players who don't get picked as the answer to all our problems. We picked up an Irish lad who's 23 years old and has around 50 senior games to his name, most of which have come in the League of Ireland in 2022. Before that he played a handful of games in the sixth & seventh tier of English football. On top of that, he played the Irish summer league season that ended in October, and hasn't played a competitive game since, so he's basically coming in with zero pre-season at all. Yet because Hammell isn't dropping one of two experienced central defenders and chucking in an inexperienced youngster who most likely isn't match-fit there's either "something not right" or he doesn't know what he's doing. Here's the truth as I see it - We operate at a level in the game that dictates we buy players who are nowhere near being considered top class. We offer relatively low wages, and the opportunity to play in a footballing backwater, but can offer a platform for good players to move on to bigger things. We're on a par with many lower league sides down south. Every signing we make is pretty much a gamble with few notable exceptions. Some seasons those gambles pay off and we do well. Some seasons they don't. We currently have a team that simply isn't very good. The question is, is there two other sides who are worse over a league season? It may be that the answer is no, and it's simply our time to face the drop. In all honesty, we've done amazing considering our fanbase and budget over the past couple of decades. When did we last go down? 38 years ago or something? Look at the teams who've been relegated since. We have no divine right to stay up. Us being where we are isn't a disgrace. Our recent accomplishments has only served to spoil our fans I think, to some degree. I should add before people jump on this, I'm not saying I'm happy to see us relegated, or saying it's acceptable. I'm not. I'd be gutted, and the players should see it as being unacceptable. All I'm saying is, it isn't insane to think it could happen to us. It wouldn't send shockwaves around world football. I could understand the furore if we had the squad Dundee United had. Mulgrew, Fletcher, Middleton, Watt etc. But we don't. We don't have that kind of budget. We have a squad similar to that of Ross County, Kilmarnock, St Johnstone, St Mirren etc. Personally, I think it's going to be between ourselves and Killie to see who takes the playoff spot. I think County will finish bottom.

Well, in Alexanders time at the club we signed the following players on three year deals. Shields Woolery Kelly Slattery Sol Tierney How many of them do we regret giving those deals to? Shields? Possibly Sol? I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle. It depends on who the player is, and what type of contract they're looking for. Would Shields have accepted a one year deal with us? Probably, and that's what he should have been given. Maybe throw in a further two year option with a pay bump that the club could trigger if he did well in the first year? But again, if he does well in that first year and gets a better offer from a team with more money, we'd all be spitting blood and asking why he wasn't tied down longer. Woolery was signed on a three year deal and we ended up making some profit from it. If we'd not given Kelly a long-term deal he'd likely have left for next to nothing by now.