David

Personally, I'm not being critical of Bair for not scoring against Celtic or Rangers. I'm being critical because he never really looks like he's ever going to score. Apart from the odd occasion, I don't see him even in a threatening position. I'll say it again, he's a striker. He's not expected to be prolific, but surely he's expected to score some goals? Or at least get into the positions we see strikers get in to? He had that single chance because he doesn't move around like a striker. He doesn't find his way into the positions that strikers should. It's been the main criticism of him for most of his professional career. Virtually every fan of every team he's ever played for has said the same thing. He's a hard worker, he covers a lot of ground, but he doesn't ever really look like scoring goals. And when we can see this, the opposition sees this. And when they see this, they adjust their gameplan accordingly, because they can set their defenders out differently than they would when playing a team whose forward player is a known threat. On Slattery and Spittal, that's because they're midfielders. That's their primary position. If they can chip in with some goals then all the better, but why would anyone be critical of our midfielders when they're basically being asked to not only do their job in midfield but also take up the mantle as goalscorers because our forward doesn't know how to score goals? Slattery and Spittal will face criticism when they don't do their job in midfield. They shouldn't be expected to pick up the slack for a guy who isn't capable of doing his job of scoring goals. Shaw has had zero starts so far. Not one. He's played a combined 60 minutes of football all season, with it coming in bursts of 10-20 minutes here and there. I'll judge him when he's had a run of starts similar to that being given to Bair. If Shaw can't even look like scoring after the same number of starts as Bair then I'll be critical of him. How is he being measured by a different bar? He's a striker. He's being measured by how many goals he scores, like every other striker in the professional game. In the past, if a striker isn't getting goals, we look to see if he's at least getting into those positions and looks like he's getting close. Bair isn't. He rarely looks like he knows where he has to be in order to score a goal. Having watched him in most of our games this season, it's blatantly obvious why his scoring record isn't good. He simply doesn't have the instinct or mindset of a striker. It's quite funny really, because in the past our fans would slag the shit out of Van Veen for being "lazy." The guy knew where he had to be to score goals. he could do nothing for 60 minutes, then be in the right place at the right time to grab two goals and win us a game or get us a draw that looked unlikely. But Bair gets praised because he runs around a lot and comes deep to make simple passes. All the while the opposition defence is having an easy day because while he's running around and looking busy, he's nowhere near being a threat to the actual goal. All they need to do is watch for Spittal or Slattery coming from midfield. But it seems some of our fans prefer a player who looks busy and "runs his socks off" to a player who has an instinct and knows how to play the game with intelligence. Such a player is branded "lazy." Van Veen didn't fall deep to make a simple pass because he knew that wouldn't get him any closer to scoring a goal, which was his job. Will they get picked over him? As has been mentioned elsewhere, it seems there's some doubt over Wilkinson being the guy to replace him. He's apparently too slow, and has been written off as shite? Obika? What will he provide? He's injury-prone, and I would wager a decent sum of money that he spends more game days in the stands injured than he does in the team. He was brought in last season as back-up. Biereth is an unknown. It's unfair to put any real pressure on a kid who's played 15 professional games. If he provides some goals, then great, but I don't know if he's going to be the guy to lead the line. We better hope that Spittal and Slattery have the season of their lives because we're going to need them to.

That kind of system works because they're all using midfielders who, and I apologise if this seems negative, are really good at that kind of thing, coupled with players in the forward position that actually still scored goals. There was mention of Dykes and how he is used for Scotland. Dykes scores goals. He's hit double figures in two seasons in the English Championship, and also in his lone season in the Scottish Premiership. Comparisons with City don't hold up either, even if we use perspective for the obviously differing levels. Whenever Pep played with the midfielders coming into scoring positions, he used actual goal threats in the lone forward position. Be it Mahrez or Sterling. What he didn't use was a big lump who's only decent at passing and knockdowns. It's also worth noting that even in those seasons where City employed that system, the guy who was playing the lone forward role actually scored a lot of their goals. Be it Mahrez, Sterling, Ferran Torres, or Gabriel Jesus. I will say it again, if our tactics for this season are using a striker who doesn't score goals providing knockdowns for two midfielders who really aren't known for their goalscoring abilities, we're going to run into trouble. Teams already know Bair poses virtually no threat in front of goal. So their defenders don't need to really worry about him getting the ball and causing damage. All they need to do is keep an eye on the midfielders coming forward and look for Bair playing his passes to them. That kind of system works when the opposition has to deal with goalscoring midfielders coming in from deep, plus deal with a forward who may not be an out-and-out striker, but who is also dangerous in front of goal. Whichever way we slice it, be it two up top, or one up front and asking the midfielders to chip in with goals, we need to employ a striker who actually scores some goals. It doesn't need to be Van Veen last season level. But they need to pose a threat and actually look like they could score goals. I'm all for using a system where we don't rely on a single person hitting 15-20 goals a season because we rarely have a striker of that ability at our club, but there's a difference between asking the midfield to chip in and get more goals than they might usually get alongside a striker who can even hit between 9-11 or so, and asking the midfielders to basically supply the vast majority of our goals. In previous seasons we've had Tony Watt, Devante Cole, and Van Veen provide between 9-12 goals in a season. That surely isn't unreasonable? Unless our budget is markedly lower than it was those seasons, why can't we bring in someone of that level again? Why are we saying all we can afford now is the equivalent of the guys we'd bring in late on to make up the numbers usually? In previous seasons guys like Obika, Shaw, and Wilkinson would be extra bodies to fill out the squad. They'd be players brought in to cover for the likes of Van Veen, Watt, Woolery etc. The young lad from Arsenal would have been a bonus, someone who can hopefully do a job for us. But we're all seemingly pinning our hopes on a kid who's played 15 senior games coming back from injury and being our main striker. And I know it really annoys people, but I'll say it again. In previous seasons someone like Bair wouldn't have even been under consideration. I'm trying to work out if our budget is dramatically reduced to the point where the squad filler of two seasons ago is now our first team players, or if our scouting and player identification just isn't at the level it used to be? It has to be one or the other. And I also know that some people don't like it when I post a lot of words, so I'll end it there.

He's scored twice as many goals as Bair, in fewer games and without getting a real proper run of games. He's also scored over 50 goals in his career, so he at least knows where the net is. Again, I've heard it said constantly that Bair is being played because there are no other options, he's fourth choice and so on. But he isn't, is he? He wouldn't be playing ahead of Wilkinson or Shaw if he is. Like them or not, they have proven that they know how to score goals. If our plan is to have a striker who doesn't score goals, and who isn't expected to score goals, but instead lump the goal responsibilities onto Slattery and Spittal, I think we're going to run into problems eventually. We need to choose between playing two up front, one of which I assume will be our fourth choice project and someone else who can score goals, or playing a lone striker. Who that lone striker should be? Who knows.

If that is the case, and it's the system we're going with, then Bair actually isn't the 4th choice striker who's only playing due to injuries? Or are we going to see Wilkinson picked over him now that he's fit? Because the truth is, if we're relying on the bulk of our goals coming from Spittal and Slattery, I don't know how successful that's going to be.

The question is, who plays up front? If it's Bair then we need to rely on our midfield not only doing their job in their own area of the park but also scoring goals. If Bair is going to be effective we need to play a striker who knows how to score goals up front with him, to benefit from the much-ballyhooed knockdowns and work rate. Doing that means dropping a midfielder though, which isn't ideal. I'd drop Bair for Wilkinson if he's fit. We need a goal threat further up the park that isn't a midfielder.

So we can be critical of Wilkinson when he's started 6 games, including early league cup run-outs, and also claim that Shaw isn't up to the job after a whopping 0 starts and a total of 60 minutes of football, but when it comes to other players we're best to give them time to settle in and see how they get on after a few months? If Bair's job is not to actually score goals but instead provide knockdowns and suchlike, then why hasn't Shaw gotten a single start alongside him up top? Surely the idea is to have him provide those knockdowns to a striker who can score goals, no? I've seen it said that we'll see things improve when Kettlewell can finally deploy two strikers, but he's had Shaw available and has been using him from the bench as a direct replacement for Bair?

Paton all day long. Miller played well too.

Not a great result, but if we can take 5 or 6 points from our next three this game will be forgotten about.

A shame, as this is the worst Celtic team we've played in a while. And they probably won't be as bad as this next time around. But hey, we played well! Nice passes, solid in defence etc. That's what matters. A point is what we deserved at the least. We could have had all three.

I'd be really surprised if we went with two up top against Celtic. Our midfield would get overrun.

I find it strange that you consider quite a reasonable viewpoint backed up by facts to be a "rant." At no point have I said anything disparaging about the guy on a personal level, so you're talking rubbish on that front. In fact, I've gone to great lengths to point out that he seems like a hardworking player who tries his best. I don't think anything I've said can be viewed as a rant. The very definition of a rant is to speak, write, or shout in a loud, uncontrolled, or angry way, often saying confused or silly things. I don't think that applies here. I just don't rate him. And when the discussion centers around him, I'm going to voice my opinion. I know that doesn't sit well with some people, and that's fine. But I'm not going to stop discussing our team because some forum members don't like my opinion. I suggested Ferrie purely in terms of the whole "project" discussion. I personally find the idea of a 24-year-old who's been in the game across three countries to be a "project" a bit of a farce. If we want a "project," then we need to focus on players who still have potential to be realised, and who are young enough to grow into being good players. And as for your views on judging players on their past, guess what? That's what virtually every single manager at every single club on the planet does. You may not like it, but when a player gets to the age Bair is? The trajectory of their career is somewhat guided by their past. Math isn't my strong point, but that's what? One goal every 11 games or something? Works out at about three goals per season. Which seems about right, doesn't it? At best? That's not good enough, in my opinion. Maybe you think differently. Yeah, and I know that the more I voice my discontent that someone of his ability is leading the line for Motherwell, the more people like you will dig in your heels and refuse to be critical of him. That's how it works, and that's fine. I'm just looking forward to us getting a striker fit and on the park who knows how to actually score goals. Because the truth is, we've seen teams relegated before who have done "okay" and looked decent but just couldn't score.

I mean if he goes with two up top. I'd rather still go for just one and swap Bair out for someone who offers more of a threat.

For me, it has to be Wilkinson and Shaw. Mika is an unknown quantity, and if he comes back, then I'll be interested in seeing how he does. Obika and Bair I don't see being at the club next season, if I'm being honest.

He's certainly fitter, but that's going to come with game time. That's a no-brainer. And St Johnstone fans never said he was "total shite." He's clearly an athletic lad who isn't workshy. I heard it said that he does a lot of running, can't be faulted for his effort, and will absolutely try his best. It's just that his best isn't good enough. He's a striker who doesn't score goals. That's the one factor we cannot get away from. There are two factors that worry me about this guy: Fans are talking about him as if he's 18 years old. He's not. He's 24 years old. He's not a "project" or any of the other nonsense we've heard talked about him. When a player hits his mid-20s in today's game, what you have is pretty much what you're going to get. And with Bair, that's nine career goals in just shy of 100 games. The most he's ever scored in one season is four, and that was in the Norweigan 2nd tier. And second, because he came in with such a poor reputation, it seems the bar has been set extremely low for him in our fan's eyes. Stuff like "he managed to make a few decent passes," "His knockdowns are decent" and so on. I'm sorry, but when you play professional football for a living, that kind of thing should be the very least you're delivering. And come on, let's not even try to draw a comparison between a guy with the goalscoring record mentioned above and someone who, by the age Bair is now had almost 50 career goals to his name and was playing in League One down south. Granted, Van Veen wasn't always the ultimate goal machine at Motherwell that he was last season, but he hit double figures in both his seasons here. I'll say it again. Theo Bair may be a very nice lad, and he may try really hard and put in a lot of effort. But he's not a striker. Certainly not at the level we play at, anyway.

That's true. For Shaw, though, that point came when he was 19 years old and playing for Hibs in the Scottish Premiership. Which is about normal for players of a halfway decent quality.

The main difference, for me anyway, is that Shaw has shown in the past he at least knows how to score goals at this level.

A narrow defeat where we play quite well is almost inevitable. We just don't have someone who can score goals.

If they ever end up being fit enough.

I can only speak on a personal level, but I always had confidence in Van Veen eventually hitting some sort of form. He had a track record of scoring goals and was never really one for being known as injury-prone. Of our current lot, I only really have the same confidence in Wilkinson, as he's someone who's shown what he can do in the past and isn't really considered an injury-prone type of player, is he? Obika and Bair are both write-offs, in my opinion. Obika because he's seemingly injury-prone, and Bair for reasons I've gone into previously.

A good selection of candidates. I'll need to sit down this evening and get a proper look at it.

Good to see him get some goals and not fall flat this season.

Fairly decent. I'm thinking he's impressing people because the bar was set so low for him to begin with. I guess we'll see how he does, as we look like we have no other options at the moment. Shaw looked a much bigger threat when he came on, which is what I think we want from a striker. Someone who looks like they could score a goal. Hopefully he gets up to speed and can start soon.

Paton for me. Really has come onto a game this season.

He hasn't really had a chance though, has he? And let's be honest, if we have strikers on our books who have less potential than Theo Bair? They shouldn't be at a club in the Scottish Premiership.

Yeah, no disagreement there. I'd just rather we gave someone like Ferrie that chance in the team rather than someone like Bair. Still, we'll see how it goes I guess.