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Everything posted by David
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Yeah, but you have to assume the club who are paying the money have seen something in you to believe you have what it takes, no? What I'm saying is that even if you go to a club like Leeds from Motherwell and fail, doing the rounds on loan of some English League One clubs or whatever, you're still going to be paid what your contract stipulates. And more often than not, a prospect who's left the SPFL to go to the English Championship can find a club in the SPFL who are willing to take a punt when their contract runs out down south, so they end up back where they started at worst, except with more cash in their pocket and more life experience.
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Lee Erwin went to Leeds before coming back up the road to play for Killie, didn't he? So it was accurate in his case. He then decided to opt for another money move to Iran, where it looks as though he's not able to handle it, citing homesickness as the reason or something similar. If you're going to chase the money, especially to somewhere like that, you need to be prepared to take the rough with the smooth. It's not going to be like the UK, and you have to work through that. Apparently he claimed depression but was able to attend a training camp a few days after the club wrote him a letter. I think that's more to do with him being a bit of a walloper than anything else. You're being paid more money to play football, which is what you're being offered at Motherwell. Realisation of potential or not, if you sign a three year deal at an English Championship club on a set wage and with a nice signing-on fee you're going to get paid that regardless of what potential you realise. Considering the mentality it takes for a young player to even make it as far as lacing up his boots for our first team, I'd be very surprised if there's any who would get an offer from a side like Leeds or Norwich and who wouldn't think "I can go down there and tear it up, no problem." If a player decides to stay in a particular place due to family reasons, such as his other half not keen on moving, kids in school, any of that, then fair enough, as family comes first. But if they get an offer from a bigger club and seriously think "nah, I'll never get a game there" they maybe need to question their own ambition and belief in their ability. Maybe Ben Hall stays with us and does fuck all though? Eventually getting farmed out a few times before being let go? Maybe the reason why he's not set the heather alight down south is because he's not that good? What then? Again, you strike when the iron is hot. Most of these guys aren't being paid an absolute fortune, so they need to make as much as they can before their career is over by their mid 30's. Maybe their late 30's if they're lucky. It comes down to the player in question either thinking like a fan, or thinking like a professional. I know that isn't what we like to hear, but it's the truth. If I was faced with the option of staying at Motherwell (even with me being a Motherwell fan) and getting more game time but significantly less money, or moving to a Championship side down south and earning the kind of money that would go a long way to securing a better life for my wife and kids then it's a no fucking brainer. Keep your football time and achieving something in the game. If given the choice of lifting the Scottish cup for Motherwell but having to live in Lanarkshire and work as a sports coach while my wife works as a receptionist when I retire, or moving down south and playing for seven or eight years in the Championship then coming up the road at the tail end with a healthy bank account and being able to retire and provide a better life for my family, then I'll make do with watching that Scottish cup win from the stands or on TV. That may be sacrilege to a lot of fans, but the welfare and lifestyle afforded my family would always come first, which is why I never grudge anyone who looks to earn as much as they can. I hope Hastie stays at Fir Park, as I'm thinking like a fan. If he decides to make the jump when the offer is there though, then fair play to him and best of luck. Hopefully he'll be banking his money and managing it efficiently.
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The thing is, what if Hastie for example, does really well the rest of this season. He get's some pretty big money offers from a few English Championship clubs. We're talking about three year contracts offered. He says no, listens to the people saying he should stay at Motherwell and learn his trade. Next season his form dips badly, he gets dropped, fades away and ends up quietly being let go and plying his trade part-time by the time he's 23 or 24. The harsh truth is, you never know what's around the corner. If a company offered me twice or three times my wages to do the same job for them in a higher profile environment I'd be all over it. And so would most of you. Especially if you knew it was a career that would only last for 15 years or so. And lets be honest, a player who leaves our league and goes down south to a side like Leeds or Norwich, even if they fail, they're pretty much guaranteed a move back up here to a club of similar standing to the one they left, on the same kind of money they would have been getting anyway.
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I don't need to make that decision for them, they made it themselves when they left their first clubs and the promise of "developing into better players" for the chance to make it on a bigger stage for a higher financial reward. The thing is, for the most part both winning things and earning more money are connected. The teams who generally win things are the ones paying the higher wages, so it makes sense to chase the money, as the accolades will usually follow if you're good enough. like Andy Robertson, for example. One good season at Dundee United before he left for Hull City. If he'd failed there, went out on loan a few times and returned to Scotland he'd no doubt he used as another example of a player who "left too soon" and could have developed more before moving on. But he's done well and is a terrific example that if you're good enough, have the right work ethic and your head screwed on you can succeed at the highest level. And if you're not good enough? You can usually find a way back to the safety net of where you were before, can't you? Be it leaving Killie and returning to St Johnstone a few years later, or leaving Motherwell and coming back to Killie as Erwin did. The main difference is that you'll have boosted your bank account a bit, which will come in handy when you're 45 and the fans and clubs no longer really give a shit about you. At that point it's just you and your family, and being able to support them financially is what really matters, even over & above a few meaningless trophies that won't pay the mortgage I'd reckon. If Hastie moves on and decides to make a fist of cracking into a side in the English championship for more coin than we could ever hope to pay him then good on him. It's a short career and you strike when the iron is hot. Those clubs may not be around if you suffer a dip in form or an injury, or the manager changes and the new guy doesn't rate you.
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I don't get this line of thinking. You won't judge the manager or the team when playing against other sides of similar standing, only when they play against better sides? And the last time I checked, those academy products are part of the team that Robinson picked? You're talking as though those youngsters being a big part of our success is somehow a bad thing?
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Well, Brighton saw enough to take up that extra year option on Hall's deal, and Kennedy got a move to Cardiff, which likely brought a decent wage and a nice signing bonus as well. And if we're honest, for most players being richer when they call time on their career is all that really matters.
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Ben Hall? Isn't he out on loan while having renewed his deal with Brighton for another year in 2018? He's most likely doing very well financially in comparison to what we could offer him, and he's still on the books of a Premiership club. Matt Kennedy left St Johnstone because Everton came calling. Very few footballers worth their salt would turn down a move like that, unless they thought they weren't actually good enough of course. He signed on a three year deal, guaranteeing him three years of decent cash most likely, while allowing him to learn the game at a higher level. He then went to Cardiff on a 3 and a half year deal, where I doubt the wages were pocket change. Now he's back in Scotland with St Johnstone, still only 24 years old, has a shitload more experience than he would have had if he hadn't left, and his bank account is probably healthier as well. Than make money? Probably not. Last I checked I couldn't pay my mortgage or help put my kids through school on my reputation. For some reason many football fans don't seem to realise that this is these guys jobs. It's what they do for a living. If a company came along to us in our job and offered us far more money to do the same job for them we'd be offski in a heartbeat. No nonsense about staying at the smaller company to "learn the trade" or to "build a reputation." You're in the game to make money and win things, in that order most of the time. We see plenty of legends hawking their medals and trinkets to raise money for themselves, but very rarely do we see a retired multi-millionaire footballer crying into his versace pillowcase about not winning a few more Scottish cups or a league title. You get in, make as much money as you can at the highest level possible before you're old and broken down and have to retire.
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Some people are glass half full, and some are glass half empty. When it comes to Yodo he doesn't even have a fucking glass to begin with.
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I think it's sometimes easy to forget that just like the young players coming into the first team, Robinson is very much a beginner in the management game. Aside from a strange six month period at Oldham where he started pre-season with a grand total of seven contracted players and was hit with a transfer embargo in the November following his appointment he'd only ever been an assistant. He's learning the game, and much like his time at Oldham he's operating under pretty restrictive financial constraints. I know some don't like it when this is brought up, but it's true. When you're spending what we are you have a very limited pool of quality players to choose from, and if you reach a transfer window and there's no one that you like the look of in your price range or who's interested in coming to Motherwell you can find yourself with some problems. And that's not to mention the amount of times we'll have identified a player, made contact and gotten a verbal sign of interest only for another club with better finances to come in and take him instead. It's easy to say that the punter in the stand knew long before that the changes he's making now needed to be made, but it's one thing to see that changes are required, and a totally different matter being able to bring in the players on our budget to do so. Fans tend to say shit like "we need to bring in a winger," which is all well & good, but what if there's no decent wingers available who would want to come here, or who would be willing to accept the money we can offer? What then? Honestly, if football management was that easy then the clubs wouldn't be paying their managers as much as they do across the board, would they? They'd just get some fan in for a few hundred quid a week. It looks like we're starting to reap the benefits of Craigan's influence in the youth set up, which is fantastic. A club our size needs to have those players coming through. Let's just hope that we can continue in that vein with Craigan gone.
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Another aspect of our young players coming through is the message it sends to the parents and advisors of the young kids out there today, those who are weighing up their options. If we can start to cultivate a reputation as a club that gives youth a proper chance it could benefit us down the road.
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It looks as though the signing of McCormack is going to be a bit of a bust unfortunately. I was excited when I heard he was signing, but it seems he'll be spending much of the rest of the season trying to get fit, and will get a few cameo appearances at best before his loan deal finishes and he leaves quietly at the end of the season.
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He's the best we have in that role at the moment I think, and as long as we keep getting results and looking half decent I'm happy enough.
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I actually think the manager will have been quite happy with Main's contribution the past few games. Sure, he's not scored, but his holding up of the ball, tireless running, pressuring of defenders and suchlike has allowed the midfield more space to do their thing. If he can add a few goals to his game then that would obviously be awesome, but I think he'd done the job asked lately.
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2018/19 Game 24: Livingston (H) Saturday 2nd February
David replied to Yabba's Turd's topic in Club Chat
This game, for me, represents the first where we now turn our attention to seeing if we can catch any of the sides above us. Even if we don't manage to do that, it's still refreshing. -
2018'19 Game 23:Dundee (A) Saturday 26th January 2019
David replied to Yabba's Turd's topic in Club Chat
It's just started working after about ten minutes. -
2018'19 Game 23:Dundee (A) Saturday 26th January 2019
David replied to Yabba's Turd's topic in Club Chat
Even the official club TV streaming link isn't working at the moment. -
2018/19 Game 22: Hibernian (H) Wednesday 23rd January
David replied to MelvinBragg's topic in Club Chat
Every game we play at home, with the possible exception of Rangers and Celtic, is winnable though, isn't it? My main point is that a loss to Hibs, which is a real possibility considering our current form, won't be all that bad if the three teams below us don't make up any ground on us. -
2018/19 Game 22: Hibernian (H) Wednesday 23rd January
David replied to MelvinBragg's topic in Club Chat
Yeah, I'm basing my view on us losing the game against Hibs. On current form I'd be pleasantly surprised if we can take anything from it, so I'm hoping that none of the sides below us manage to gain any ground on us. -
2018/19 Game 22: Hibernian (H) Wednesday 23rd January
David replied to MelvinBragg's topic in Club Chat
Just as important as the Hibs result for us is how Accies do at home against Aberdeen, how St Mirren do away to Celtic, and how Dundee do away to Hearts. If all three lose their games then this result won't really matter for us in the grand scheme of things. -
Not really. The upside for me is maintaining a reasonably steady ship to try and secure SPFL status. Sacking a manager can have a detrimental effect on a squad, which could lead us to go into a bit of a tailspin while the new guy finds his feet. There's also the potential upside of the new manager surge, and if we were in a realistic position of challenging for top six or even for 8th then I'd consider that to be a factor. But we aren't, so I don't. The downside of bringing a new manager in now is potentially falling into the relegation battle from the relatively safe position we're in at the moment. The upside is closing the gap on Hibs and still finishing 9th, but closer to them. I doubt the board would be mental enough to look at that and think the potential upside outweighs the potential downside.
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Is it really a choice though? Are many players with genuine ability within our price range? I've found that most of the players we sign who are regarded as "proper" footballers are extremely erratic and usually come in for a world of abuse from fans who bemoan their ability to track back and "get stuck in."
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The one hole in that viewpoint for me is that the new management team may not actually be available right now. There's usually pretty slim pickings available at this time of year, which is another reason to wait until the summer. If I was the man making the decisions I'd already be quietly looking for Robinson's replacement. I wouldn't disrespect him or Lasley by actually sounding anyone out, but I'd be drawing up a shortlist of who I think would be available in the summer and who'd fit the bill. Come seasons end we thank Robinson for his efforts and move quickly for a new manager, who will have a good budget to play with as there's quite a few players due to move on I think.
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It's easy for the fans to just say "bin him, get him tae fuck," but the club actually have to weigh up the very serious pros and cons of sacking a manager at this stage of the season. Look at the facts. We're 9th. We're 7 clear of Accies, we're 9 clear of St Mirren, and we're 11 clear of Dundee. For St Mirren to catch us we'd need to drop 3 games while they win 3 games. They've won 3 games all season. For Dundee to catch us we'd need to drop 3 games, draw 2 and they'd need to double the amount of points they've won all season. Dundee have won twice this season. We're 8 points behind Hibs in 8th. We're not catching them. At worst we're looking at a 10th finish, if somehow Accies manage to suddenly go on a run while we lose. Granted, we're poor, but we're still better than the clubs below us, which is all that matters for now. Robinson knows the players, and can get the minimum that he needs from them. We're out of both cups. If any club happens to be sniffing around Robinson, there's a better chance he moves in the summer. We waive the compensation we'd be due, we part ways. We could then bring a new manager in with a clean slate. We have a fair amount of players out of contract this summer, so there's going to be the chance to make big changes. There's also a wider range of choice in the summer as far as managers go. Or, we could roll the dice and bump the manager just now. We'd likely need to pay him off. He's got a contract until May 2020, so unless he's secretly loaded I don't see him walking away from a contract without another job to go to. We either appoint someone on an interim basis, or we grab someone from the slim pickings that's available at this time of year. The new manager comes in and has to hit the ground running. These aren't his players, and chances are we can't shift many until the summer. We run the risk of total collapse, which we've seen happen elsewhere. I know this isn't the answer folk want to hear, but the smart choice is riding this wave of mediocrity until the summer. At that point we can reassess, we've got a lot of players with contracts up so if a new manager is coming in he gets a clean slate to work with. The only way I see Robbo going before the summer is if we get another club wanting him this season, or if we collapse and end up in danger of the drop. Bearing in mind that this would also involve one or both clubs at the bottom seriously getting their act together as well.
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I was under the impression his deal was until May 2020, but I could be wrong.
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No, "we" don't. The authorities do. Big difference. "We" get to sit on our hands and murmur quietly when the team isn't playing well.