Ianc Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 It will take that from 4000 to bring the debt to zero. I'm sending that to the club right now. I don't want to be associated again with a club that does not pay its debts. F""k Sevco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makaveli Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 is it only me that is wondering what the hell you are talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Think the sherry has you mixed up with trading loss and debt an extra £46.xxp from 4000 contributors would have allowed us to break even on the previous financial year, up to 31 May 2013 you'd have to make a few trips to the cashline, to get an amount 1/4000 of our clubs current liabilities which is hell of a lot higher than that years £188k loss nice sentiment however, and you are correct if every fan just found an extra amount it would make a dent in the club financial worries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claretband Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 you'd have to make a few trips to the cashline, to get an amount 1/4000 of our clubs current liabilities which is hell of a lot higher than that years £188k loss I thought we were in fairly robust financial health, at least compared to most other SPFL clubs - sorry I haven't been following the other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfc88 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 It will take that from 4000 to bring the debt to zero. I'm sending that to the club right now. I don't want to be associated again with a club that does not pay its debts. F""k Sevco Like your thinking but the club can't simply ask for £50 quid off each supporter. It would need to be put more elegantly. Just thinking aloud here but perhaps if the club published a leaflet to hand out annually summarising the clubs financial situation if there has been a shortfall, and what it will take to remedy that. For example...if every home fan (based on say 4500, or whatever) bought a strip and a scarf it would reduce the clubs financial debt by X percent. I am sure most fans are more than happy to spend a bit of money on the club...just need the encouragement to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnstone Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Are you a king from Nigeria? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 If funds were so tight would directors be paying for McFadden and Anier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Are you a king from Nigeria? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 you'd have to make a few trips to the cashline, to get an amount 1/4000 of our clubs current liabilities which is hell of a lot higher than that years £188k Interesting statement. Should we be worried Brazilian? You seem to be in the know.... I make it 2 or 3 years of losses now. The first and largest loss if I recall was affordable because we made a £600k profit the year we made the Cup Final. But how can we continue with losses especially when we can no longer account for a bank loan. We can all see the club is pushing the boat out with McManus, McFadden, Anier etc. I get the feeling we are just risking a little too much. I understand their is no Sponsor. I also understand that our cup performances have been poor, but we have been in Europe and finished top 2 or 3 which gives us almost an extra £700k per an um over the likes of St Mirren. The wage bill must be cut again next season. It may be painful, but we are currently (it would appear) living beyond our means... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 We need to start performing better in domestic cup competitions. Forget Europe as it usually costs us money to take part, the cups are the most realistic way for us to earn much needed cash. Our league performances have been superb over the past few years, however you would need to be blind to not realise that we need to perform better in the cups if we are to prevent any potential cash flow issues. I have no doubt that McCall was hauled over the coals for the Albion Rovers debacle and he more than most knows that the early cup exit has cost us a great deal of financial heartache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 More people need to sign up for the Well Society or we might as well deem it a failure right now. I fear that's the way it's going as it hasn't appealed to enough people. If you haven't signed up by now then I dare say you never will. The payment plans are affordable and spread out it's no more than you would spent on a night out or a pair of trainers in any one go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 The payment plans are affordable and spread out it's no more than you would spent on a night out or a pair of trainers in any one go. It's only affordable if it's affordable to you. I already put probably £400 or so a year into Motherwell and if I signed up to the Well Society I'd have to cut back on other areas that I put money into the club meaning probably not buying a season ticket. I'm afraid I just don't have any more to put in that I already do and I'm sure there are lots of people in the same boat as me. On the club side of things didn't we lose £600,000 in the previous financial result? So that's close to £800,000 in two seasons. I reckon our wage bill will have come down significantly last summer but it's still not very encouraging because I don't see much scope for further cuts if we want to perform at the level we are currently. The squad is already wafer thing and full of younger players. Currently our attendances have held up fairly well (so far 5,200 this season compared to 5,362 and 5,255 in the previous two seasons) but with matches against Kilmarnock, Ross County and Inverness coming up I'd expect that average to fall but it's hard to say at this stage if it what it will stand at at the end of the season. Also our cup income will be way down this season although we did actually progress a round. The only conclusion you can really come to is that in the long run we can't compete at this level without money coming in from outside, whether that be people on the board, local businesses or other forms of 'investment'. Perhaps 'charitable donations' would be a better term! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 If funds were so tight would directors be paying for McFadden and Anier? not sure how that's meant to read, but, only because funds are tight are our directors paying for any extras. if things were, comfortable, then the business would pay for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I thought we were in fairly robust financial health, at least compared to most other SPFL clubs - sorry I haven't been following the other thread. Interesting statement. Should we be worried Brazilian? You seem to be in the know.... I make it 2 or 3 years of losses now. The first and largest loss if I recall was affordable because we made a £600k profit the year we made the Cup Final. But how can we continue with losses especially when we can no longer account for a bank loan. We can all see the club is pushing the boat out with McManus, McFadden, Anier etc. I get the feeling we are just risking a little too much. I understand their is no Sponsor. I also understand that our cup performances have been poor, but we have been in Europe and finished top 2 or 3 which gives us almost an extra £700k per an um over the likes of St Mirren. The wage bill must be cut again next season. It may be painful, but we are currently (it would appear) living beyond our means... Depends on how you pitch it I suppose, Commercially the club has continued to grow and earn more as shown in the published accounts some people within and around the club are doing a tremendous job in the face of an almost impossible set of circumstances ( difficult trading period is maybe more in line with the bean counters) Turnover for the previous year was up around £660k, during a period which included some of the Rangers shambles, the costs only went up around £240k so a significant benefit over that trading period, resulting in the loss being reduced from around £600k to around £180k for like for like periods. Rangers shambles alone, walking out that year, not in worse trouble can only be seen as a good result. but the club should be pleased that Gate receipts were up, sponsorship/advertising was up, Commercial income was up, UEFA income was up (£324k ) and transfer income was up ( and will be again in this years accounts considering 2012 was £0) BUT, broadcasting income down and 'other' income dropped, and wages creeped up a little (so without the great work done, a good league cup draw and Europe we have been screwed with Rangers demise) the Euro cup games and outstanding performance of the football team during the period matched the great of field improvements. The £900k for second would have benefited the club but equally the distribution of funds down the placing's might very well have saved the club if we finished lower. BUT still a loss is a loss, and on the back of the previous trading years loss, it compounded the situation. as quite a large business money is owed to may trading partners, hence my comment that lanc had mixed up loss and debt, the fact is the club needed Society funds to trade through the year, (remember Killie, missed one bill and any trade creditor could call in payment) so whilst the club is in better health than many, we're not exactly in the clear and our situation makes us vulnerable to unexpected costs/change in income Directors have already stated they are likely to require Society funds in the near future, and the losses need paid so end up incorporated in this years costs. so without conventional borrowing facilities, the Society is the only funding option available to put funds into the club to strengthen the business (not to spend but to provide the cash flow to trade on improved terms) and without it Directors will have to shorten budgets if improvements on income (cups, tickets etc) are not forthcoming, which we now know they haven't been this year. Guess my interpretation of the message is, keep spending what you can on your club or society. Its my personal opinion that too many fans think a season ticket is enough, £6 a week might let you attend matches ( with two kids!), but it doesn't get you a long term SPFL club to support. lanc might have been slightly of the mark the other night, but he effectively called it, that £1 a week from each our core support and we would have broke even. Forget Europe as it usually costs us money to take part, Pretty sure Europe has made us money. one bad draw cost us for the one away leg, but effectively the European games have saved us financially over the last few years, yet you want us to forget them? a cup game is a cup game, Domestic or European, they are what boosts the club, all should be encouraged 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welldaft Mk1 Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 you'd have to make a few trips to the cashline, to get an amount 1/4000 of our clubs current liabilities which is hell of a lot higher than that years £188k loss I saw your reply above Brazilian - was hoping you would shed some light on your earlier statement - above.... Would suggest we should be concerned about the current predicament of the club - losses aside...... EDIT TO ADD - You just have - THANKS. Will read now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobey_Dosser Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 not sure how that's meant to read, but, only because funds are tight are our directors paying for any extras. if things were, comfortable, then the business would pay for everything. If there is a bit if financial bother on the horizon, I'd expect Directors to be investing money into the day to day running as opposed to financing moves for Anier and McFadden. Although, as a fan in the here and now, it's obviously nice to see us speculate to accumulate. Looks like the pitch is going to cost us a few quid in the summer again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 If there is a bit if financial bother on the horizon, I'd expect Directors to be investing money into the day to day running as opposed to financing moves for Anier and McFadden. Although, as a fan in the here and now, it's obviously nice to see us speculate to accumulate. Looks like the pitch is going to cost us a few quid in the summer again. I know we're differing on this a little, but the Rangers situation, is the financial bother, the horizon is here , no doubt , no league sponsor, is this years addition to the bother, and no doubt something else will add to it next season, seems to be the way of it the Directors seem to be putting money in to support the day to day running , as in, we need a squad to play in the league, and keep fans coming in (did I mention for the year of the published accounts we had cut 3 players and 5 youth players) Reckon the pitch, is now budgeted for every other year, I'm sure it was mentioned previously when many of us were surprised it got lifted after such a huge rebuild a few years back, although, the upkeep of Fir Park is just one of many demands on the income Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Pretty sure Europe has made us money. one bad draw cost us for the one away leg, but effectively the European games have saved us financially over the last few years, yet you want us to forget them? a cup game is a cup game, Domestic or European, they are what boosts the club, all should be encouraged McCall was quoted recently as saying playing in Europe had cost us money. "To be having to charter planes, it's going to cost more than we're going to receive from the ties," said McCall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 McCall was quoted recently as saying playing in Europe had cost us money. most people know the tie, in Krasnodar cost us money, you said Europe usually costs us money and we should forget it, your posting in multiple threads that we shouldn't bother with Europe? that's just nonsense, Europe has been rewarding in many ways including financially in the last two financial years prior to this season we've received a few quid short of £500k participation money.... Last season we had home gates where everyone paid (as in no ST freebies) Vs panathanaikos 9035 vs Levante 6286 this season vs Krasnodar 6748 so yes one game from around twenty matches has cost us money, that doesn't add up to Europe usually costs us money and we shouldn't bother. let alone considering what commercial/sponsors/advertising/hospitality revenue we gain from participation and even what fans we gain/retain from being up there in the mix, and just in general the profile of the club being raised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzie Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Also if we qualify this year there's a chance we could get Man United or Liverpool which would ensure a full house and next to no travelling costs. We were unlucky with the draw last time so we might be lucky next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazilian Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Also if we qualify this year there's a chance we could get Man United or Liverpool which would ensure a full house and next to no travelling costs. We were unlucky with the draw last time so we might be lucky next time. A bit far fetched Frazzle, Man Utd in Europe next season the big dilemma this season is what does 2nd place reward over 3rd? an earlier couple of rounds in Europe is more fun and rewarding? but say £500k extra for 2nd place. Although just league place for qualifying might be the real goal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Europe has been rewarding in many ways including financially Agreed Europe has been in the main financially rewarding and I was harsh to say we should forget about. Krasnodar was a kick in the balls financially for us, and UEFA really should think about regionalising it so it should never cost a team more to take part in the tournament. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelboy Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Agreed Europe has been in the main financially rewarding and I was harsh to say we should forget about. Krasnodar was a kick in the balls financially for us, and UEFA really should think about regionalising it so it should never cost a team more to take part in the tournament. if the qualifiers were regionalised we wouldn't have been to bucharest or even valencia and they were both great trips. we would probably be stuck in with iceland, the faroes, the 3 other british leagues, the irish, the 3 scandis, the finns and the benelux countries. i've got my heart set on drawing a team from croatia or istanbul at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underboyleheating Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 if the qualifiers were regionalised we wouldn't have been to bucharest or even valencia and they were both great trips. we would probably be stuck in with iceland, the faroes, the 3 other british leagues, the irish, the 3 scandis, the finns and the benelux countries. i've got my heart set on drawing a team from croatia or istanbul at some point. Although they were great ties unless there are direct easy flights there is a good chance that a club of our size will lose money. I know McCall is in favour of regionalising the early qualifying rounds to help ease the cost of taking part. These more exotic locations are financially better served for the group stages where the income is guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmacd1 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I think one of the biggest issues we have (apologies if someone has mentioned it) is our policy of contract renewal and thus getting nothing as players contracts run out. Take the summer, Randolph, Hateley, Humphries, Law and Higdon all getting to the point where we leave and we get £0. I understand that wages etc are an issue to the club, however when you consider that a club like Dundee United can seemingly quite regularly receive payments of around a million, or over £2m for someone like goodwillie. I cant remember ever getting a decent fee for a player and this must be looked at. The cup runs have also been shocking like everyone has said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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