Agm Feb 2014

[Welldaft Mk1]

Was not there last night and was wondering if anyone could shed some light on how it went.

 

I read some info on Fir Park Corner and noted that the club budget for finishing 6th in the league which answers an often asked Q. Also expects some transfer income and a run in one or both cup competitions. That being the case surely our finishing position in the league has helped make up for shortfalls in other areas. Still a loss of £180k is worrying given we finished 3rd and 2nd in the last 2 seasons.

 

Anything else of note which came out of the meeting??

[Andy_P]

I was there for part of it and jotted down stuff that I'll try post up at lunchtime if I get the chance.

 

I was there for all of McCall's Q&A which was interesting and a very good listen but I had to bolt not long after the accounts began to be discussed so may well have missed some important stuff there.

 

Certainly whilst it was stated that 6th place with a run in a cup and incoming transfer fees is budgeted for it appeared to me that even achieving that won't give any sort of guarantee of a break even point being met.

 

More later...

[Andy_P]

Okay...

 

There was one specific piece of info. that was requested not to be made public so I'm presuming the rest is fair game. If that's not the case then I'll remove as quickly as it as requested of me.

 

The meeting was chaired by Jim McMahon (I think) in Derek Weir's absence and he immediately gave thanks to Stuart McCall and Leeann Dempster for works undertaken over a number of years.

 

The formal business was placed at the end of the meeting allowing Stuart McCall to give a brief summary of events and then take questions some of which included....

 

We're in a decent position now with 14 games left. He couldn't be happier with the points tally accumulated so far. Ideally wants his teams to win, entertain and play well. Would prefer a 5-4 win rather than a 1-0 win. Says we have strong characters in the dressing room which enabled the turnaround from the Albion Rovers and Celtic games.

 

He isn't looking for plaudits the way Aberdeen and Utd have them lavished upon them and says the time for that anyway is the end of the season.

 

He is constantly reminded of the Cup defeats and the consequences of them. He made an interesting point about quietly hoping teams who already have a financial advantage over us don't get further financial rewards from making finals and winning cups.

 

I'm wording this one carefully as I don't know at what stage they are at but on contracts "the next few weeks" was mentioned about tieing players down. Says the likes of McManus agent has been on the phone.

 

He anticipates dealing in 1 or 2 contracts as teams are unable to commit, outwith exceptions circumstances, to 3 year deals any more.

 

Says we can hold our own amongst most in the league in attracting players. Circumstances like Clancy and Gunning will arise but quoted McManus where we came to us despite Hibs offering more. The club have a reputation amongst players for being a good place to play both in Scotland and through the English guys who have been with us.

 

We also benefit from the exposure we have in Scotland in terms of live games across the UK. Europe he didn't seem convinced was that much more of an additional draw but depended upon where the player was coming from.

 

Expects Hutchy to go. They haven't given up but realistically they expect him to go. Says in general though players are having their eyes opened e.g. Hateley having to go to Poland and Ojamaa perhaps not enjoying his time as much as he did at Motherwell.

 

The treatment room is extremely busy with some players requiring ops in the summer. These will delayed until then if possible.

 

The squad will also be tested with suspensions with some senior players on the threshold of a suspension and some just below that. That will mean McCall is likely to turn to youngsters like Jack Leitch and Dom Thomas.

 

On the youngsters he believes guys like those have missed out on months of playing time with the youth set up currently with nothing between U17 and U20 level and this has potentially delayed their readiness for first team duty. The current set up is up for review and reserves may be re-introduced although McCall is not quite sure this will remedy the gap between the 17's and 20's.

 

On youngsters says he can't think of many who have left who have gone on to surprise him. Says the likes of Forbes and Lawless went because they wouldn't get a game in our team. Seemed impressed by Lawless and said if we were running with a lower budget and had lesser expectations then might have got game time then.

 

Says they hope to get good players in around 14/15 age and build from there. Gave an example of Rangers pinching 3 of our best U11 players as evidence of competition in the area. Also noted that we apparently owe Celtic a fee if Dom Thomas plays 5 first team games.

 

A good discussion took place about the transfer fees or lack of from our squad and potential sales in the future. McCall tended to think there won't be much in the way of transfer monies received, Dempster was much less commital on that one! The dilema was discussed that they face each season about potentially selling a player for a "knock-down" fee or keeping them, and gambling on the rewards of a potential place or two higher, or in his first season, getting to a Cup Final.

 

Says Scotland is seen as a soft market place and later Dempster and McMahon went on to state how there is a frustation at the lack of monies accrued centrally from the SPFL such as not having a sponsor and not a true valuation being received in deals. They hope this will change.

 

On Scotland he wouldn't imagine Faddy or McManus will get recalls but you never know. They had hoped Hammell would get capped at Wembley but it never quite happened given the way the game went.

 

An example of the cash flow issues were that the bonuses due to players and management were deffered until a point where the club could afford to pay them. The club made sure they would honour them despite changes in income and prize money.

 

That was about it before I had to scoot. Hope that gives a flavour of what said from the parts I head, mostly from Stuart McCall admittedly.

[GazzyB]

Thanks a lot for the info Andy, really interesting reading.

[milo]

Interesting about not wanting our direct competitors to increase their financial clout by winning and/or progressing in cups.

 

I think we may see Aberdeen and maybe Utd really pushing the boat out in the summer unfortunately

[Welldaft Mk1]

That is quite illuminating.

 

So the club paid bonuses to players agreed in the summer and based on a payout of £2.6m, but because of redistribution of league income that became £1.7m - £900k less than anticipated.

 

Perhaps they were contractually obliged too, but I am surprised the loss was less than £200k in this scenario.

 

It would suggest that unsurprisingly we were the hardest hit in terms of redistribution of income. Of course in January we never knew we would finish second.

[Ya Bezzer!]

The bonuses was just unfortunate and we'll just have to put that down to a bit of bad luck. In the long run though we will benefit from the redistribution and we have to take the long view on it over 5, 10 , 15 years.

 

The most worrying thing is the television and sponsorship issue. It may improve in the future as the economy seems to be recovering slightly but I think we are in a bit of a catch 22 position at the moment.

 

We need additional revenue to hold on to players and bring in quality but investors aren't likely to put in cash at the current attendance levels. On the other hand attendance levels aren't going to improve without the investment.

[Lobey_Dosser]

Doncaster has been very quiet this season, very disappointing that we have failed to nail a sponsor. Time Dempster and her counterparts stopped having such faith in Doncaster.

 

Interesting snippet on Dom Thomas fee to Celtic. I assume the fee bot be significant enough to stop is giving him an opportunity between now and the end of the season.

[Kmcalpin]

How many shareholders attended last night? There seems to be fewer every year which I suppose is only to be expected.

[Brazilian]

Not sure how many made it along Dave, I'm still interested in purchasing some shares if you hear of any on option

 

The bonuses was just unfortunate and we'll just have to put that down to a bit of bad luck. In the long run though we will benefit from the redistribution and we have to take the long view on it over 5, 10 , 15 years.

 

? The redistribution was for one season, taken from 2nd spot and given to 3rd-12th

 

Going forward It has not been published afaik , with only speculation which itself would only see benefit for us in a relegation situation.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Little bit from the BBC

[Andy_P]

The most worrying thing is the television and sponsorship issue. It may improve in the future as the economy seems to be recovering slightly but I think we are in a bit of a catch 22 position at the moment.

 

We need additional revenue to hold on to players and bring in quality but investors aren't likely to put in cash at the current attendance levels. On the other hand attendance levels aren't going to improve without the investment.

 

 

Doncaster has been very quiet this season, very disappointing that we have failed to nail a sponsor. Time Dempster and her counterparts stopped having such faith in Doncaster.

 

I think it's fair to say the points you both make are not lost on those at MFC certainly and most likely across other clubs.

 

I got the impression of a clear frustration of how things currently are when it comes the financial rewards and marketing of the game. Remember too that the SPFL aren't just catering for the top flight any more, they've all the senior Scottish clubs to distribute monies too now.

 

There seemed to be a feeling that the current make up of the SPFL was more administratively based than it needed to be and the club were looking for more emphasis to be placed on selling and marketing the game either those currently in positions of power, or through the introduction of those with expertise in that field.

 

They did acknowledge though that the reconstruction process was fairly major and such they are perhaps due a period of time to allow restructuring to take place but I certainly did take from some of the statements made that there was any huge degree of faith there.

[Andy_P]

How many shareholders attended last night? There seems to be fewer every year which I suppose is only to be expected.

 

Tricky to say Dave, I was fairly close to the front but I wouldn't estimate the number present to be beyond 30 or so. Like you another shareholder happened to remark that the numbers get lower with each passing year.

[steelboy]

the rangers saga followed by the reconstruction fiasco and hearts going down the pan has killed the value of the league. doncaster can't take the whole blame for that and the potential reduction in income was laid out by the board prior to the society vote in june 2011.

[GrahamH]

the rangers saga followed by the reconstruction fiasco and hearts going down the pan has killed the value of the league. doncaster can't take the whole blame for that and the potential reduction in income was laid out by the board prior to the society vote in june 2011.

It was 2012.

[weeyin]

the rangers saga followed by the reconstruction fiasco and hearts going down the pan has killed the value of the league. doncaster can't take the whole blame for that and the potential reduction in income was laid out by the board prior to the society vote in june 2011.

 

He takes the blame for not finding a league sponsor, though, given that was one his primary tasks.

 

Even the Skrill Conference, Corbett Sports Welsh Premier League and Press & Journal Highland Football League managed that.

[Well_Jaggy]

For me, the problem around the sponsorship is all about value. Yes, we could most likely have a sponsor in place, but for a much lower fee than we would really like. The issue there is once you accept a smaller fee, that sets the value for future sponsorships. a bit like 'Well around transfer fees and sponsorships, clubs know we will accept lower amounts than others now, so go in with lower offers.

 

Anyway, the gamble has been made in that Doncaster has most likely held out trying to get a higher amount, but it hasn't come. You may say, a lower sponsorship is better than none, but in the long run, it may not be for the best.

[Frazzie]

Tricky to say Dave, I was fairly close to the front but I wouldn't estimate the number present to be beyond 30 or so. Like you another shareholder happened to remark that the numbers get lower with each passing year.

 

Could well be talking shite here, but am I not right in saying that you can't currently buy/acquire shares? If that's the case then surely it goes without saying that numbers will dwindle as existing shareholders move away/lose interest/die?

 

Also, the Trust disbanding will have knocked a few off the numbers as they always sent a representation.

[Brazilian]

For me, the problem around the sponsorship is all about value. Yes, we could most likely have a sponsor in place, but for a much lower fee than we would really like. The issue there is once you accept a smaller fee, that sets the value for future sponsorships. a bit like 'Well around transfer fees and sponsorships, clubs know we will accept lower amounts than others now, so go in with lower offers.

 

Anyway, the gamble has been made in that Doncaster has most likely held out trying to get a higher amount, but it hasn't come. You may say, a lower sponsorship is better than none, but in the long run, it may not be for the best.

 

Motherwell FC as sponsored by Commsworld would seem to disagree with that argument.

[Ballso]

Also, the Trust disbanding will have knocked a few off the numbers as they always sent a representation.

There was a rep there for the trust Fraz

[Frazzie]

There was a rep there for the trust Fraz

 

Why?

[Ballso]

The chat I heard was that the trust is still a legal entity but in hiatus. Therefore, still within their right to send a rep.

[Well_Jaggy]

Motherwell FC as sponsored by Commsworld would seem to disagree with that argument.

I am an it manager and I have previously had discussions with Commsworld around a contract for telephony support. Anyway, the business manager I had discussions with was also involved in the sponsorship deal with MFC, we got talking about it as I had mentioned being a 'Well fan. He in turn told me that the amount they paid was cheaper than a national centre page newspaper advert. now, I don't know how much that would cost, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't think its a huge amount.

[Frazzie]

The chat I heard was that the trust is still a legal entity but in hiatus. Therefore, still within their right to send a rep.

 

I see. Am I still a member?

[Kmcalpin]

Could well be talking shite here, but am I not right in saying that you can't currently buy/acquire shares? If that's the case then surely it goes without saying that numbers will dwindle as existing shareholders move away/lose interest/die?

 

Also, the Trust disbanding will have knocked a few off the numbers as they always sent a representation.

 

 

 

You can still buy shares from either the club (unissued shares) or from existing shareholders (issued shares) willing to sell. As time goes by shareholders pass away and leave them to their families. In this way the shares are held by fewer and fewer individuals, although theres no reason whatsoever that others can't buy a few. Probably the more new shareholders the better.